Kelly the Dog Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 FWIW, Sully suggested bringing someone in between Brandon and Whaley. I can see this happening for sure and Todd France seems to be a popular candidate. Sully suggested Polian and that would be fine by me as well. I want someone objective to come in and evaluate football ops and see if the right people are in place. http://fb.me/6NzleAsEl Yeah, surely he needs his own guy in there somewhere near the top to have some power. A high profile, and perhaps high priced consultant may be the way to go. France seems like a very nice fit, although he may not want to give up his successful agency career unless he was going to have real power or be a GM, and I somewhat doubt that would happen. I don't know a thing about him except he's good at his job and has some good clients. Polian would be a good choice, too, but he has no ties to Pegula. The LaFontaine experiment didn't really work, although it did leave a terrific upper level management team in place in Tim Murray, Craig Patrick, and Ted Nolan, so maybe Pegula goes that same route. I don't think we really know the whole story of the Patty Melt and whether that left a bad taste in Pegula's mouth, he thought of it as an outlier that won't likely happen again, or he looks at it like it accomplished what he wanted it to, which is to get a solid hockey department in place. Sabre fans are very happy with Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) FWIW, Sully suggested bringing someone in between Brandon and Whaley. I can see this happening for sure and Todd France seems to be a popular candidate. Sully suggested Polian and that would be fine by me as well. I want someone objective to come in and evaluate football ops and see if the right people are in place. http://fb.me/6NzleAsEl And you consider Polian and an agent to both be equally capable of doing this? Edited September 12, 2014 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 And you consider Polian and an agent to both be equally capable of doing this? Why not, and who would you suggest, or what would you do if you were TP instead. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 FWIW, Sully suggested bringing someone in between Brandon and Whaley. I can see this happening for sure and Todd France seems to be a popular candidate. Sully suggested Polian and that would be fine by me as well. I want someone objective to come in and evaluate football ops and see if the right people are in place. http://fb.me/6NzleAsEl Not Polian. The game passed him by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) And you consider Polian and an agent to both be equally capable of doing this? No, I think that Polian would be the ideal consultant for this role. France is a guy who has Pegula ties and LOTS of connections around the league. He probably has a sense for what a good front office exec looks like. He probably knows what a good department looks like as he is familiar with all of them. I am not looking for someone to evaluate the on field talent. I am looking for someone to evaluate the people making the football decisions. You are going to have most of these players for a little while. If Whaley and Marrone aren't the right guys for the job someone from the outside needs to tell TP why. Not Polian. The game passed him by. Disagree, he spent too much time propping up his kid late in Indy. Polian has produced quite a tree of future GMs. He can identify what a good football ops department should look like. Edited September 12, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 No, I think that Polian would be the ideal consultant for this role. France is a guy who has Pegula ties and LOTS of connections around the league. He probably has a sense for what a good front office exec looks like. He probably knows what a good department looks like as he is familiar with all of them. I am not looking for someone to evaluate the on field talent. I am looking for someone to evaluate the people making the football decisions. You are going to have most of these players for a little while. If Whaley and Marrone aren't the right guys for the job someone from the outside needs to tell TP why. Yep. Yep. And yep. The best is a Polian or a Ron Wolf kind of guy but hopefully younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Why not, and who would you suggest, or what would you do if you were TP instead. Just curious. Polian or and agent? You're really asking that? No, I think that Polian would be the ideal consultant for this role. France is a guy who has Pegula ties and LOTS of connections around the league. He probably has a sense for what a good front office exec looks like. He probably knows what a good department looks like as he is familiar with all of them. I am not looking for someone to evaluate the on field talent. I am looking for someone to evaluate the people making the football decisions. You are going to have most of these players for a little while. If Whaley and Marrone aren't the right guys for the job someone from the outside needs to tell TP why. An agent has a different perspective than an owner as to what makes a good FO, I would think. Pegula may bend this guy's ear a bit, but the OP said France would be instrumental in selecting a new FO. I just don't see it as intuitive. It's likely that an agent would group FO guys into 2 categories: shrewd negotiators or a-holes. Obviously France wouldn't walk away from his agency income to take a job with the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Polian or and agent? You're really asking that? An agent has a different perspective than an owner as to what makes a good FO, I would think. Pegula may bend this guy's ear a bit, but the OP said France would be instrumental in selecting a new FO. I just don't see it as intuitive. It's likely that an agent would group FO guys into 2 categories: shrewd negotiators or a-holes. Obviously France wouldn't walk away from his agency income to take a job with the Bills. So in other words, you have no answer to either of my questions. Some agents are slimeballs. Some of them are really smart and know the league, its front offices, and its players very well, the same way agents are in other industries. I don't know which kind is France. He seems to have a good rep from what little I could find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 An agent has a different perspective than an owner as to what makes a good FO, I would think. Pegula may bend this guy's ear a bit, but the OP said France would be instrumental in selecting a new FO. I just don't see it as intuitive. It's likely that an agent would group FO guys into 2 categories: shrewd negotiators or a-holes. Obviously France wouldn't walk away from his agency income to take a job with the Bills. Tannenbaum recently made the move the other way. There are certain qualities that good execs have (like sales people). If you work with enough of them you get a sense for what they do well. I don't see France as an ideal talent evaluator. I see him as a good negotiator (Overdorf's role) and a guy that can identify some qualities that the FO is missing. You may be right though that he wouldn't leave agency money for team money (nobody in their right mind would). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 So in other words, you have no answer to either of my questions. Some agents are slimeballs. Some of them are really smart and know the league, its front offices, and its players very well, the same way agents are in other industries. I don't know which kind is France. He seems to have a good rep from what little I could find. Polian. Jeez....I have to talk slower I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Polian. Jeez....I have to talk slower I guess. Nope. Just answer. When you wrote Polian or an agent I thought you were questioning them both as being ridiculous. Ha. And since you are normally like the guy in The Argument Clinic who always takes the contrary position or the "automatic gainsay" I thought that was a reasonable assumption. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Polian. Jeez....I have to talk slower I guess. You just type too darn fast! I'm a Whaley fan, but if there were to be anyone there as a mentor, Polian would be my choice. OK, he's been out a few years, but he's a genius and certain future HOF guy. A front office guy doesn't lose a step as fast as a CB or RB. Of course, I only know what I see and read and he'd have to have the right temperament for the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Nope. Just answer. When you wrote Polian or an agent I thought you were questioning them both as being ridiculous. Ha. And since you are normally like the guy in The Argument Clinic who always takes the contrary position or the "automatic gainsay" I thought that was a reasonable assumption. Lol. I thought choosing between Polian or some agent you are buddies with was a ridiculous proposition... I mean, I wouldn't take Tom Condon, the undisputed king of NFL agents over a guy with Polian's actual expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I thought choosing between Polian or some agent you are buddies with was a ridiculous proposition... I mean, I wouldn't take Tom Condon, the undisputed king of NFL agents over a guy with Polian's actual expertise. I tend to agree. But with your history, I couldn't make that assumption... Tom Condon in his prime, or Leigh Steinberg, or even Eugene Parker now would probably be excellent at just being a consultant and finding out if the members of the upper management were good at player evaluations, nuances of the 2014 CBA and salary cap stuff, scouting departments, college and pro personnel departments, etc. Probably as good as Polian at 71 years old overall. Tough to say. I'd probably go with Polian though (I just like him a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Yeah, surely he needs his own guy in there somewhere near the top to have some power. A high profile, and perhaps high priced consultant may be the way to go. France seems like a very nice fit, although he may not want to give up his successful agency career unless he was going to have real power or be a GM, and I somewhat doubt that would happen. I don't know a thing about him except he's good at his job and has some good clients. Polian would be a good choice, too, but he has no ties to Pegula. The LaFontaine experiment didn't really work, although it did leave a terrific upper level management team in place in Tim Murray, Craig Patrick, and Ted Nolan, so maybe Pegula goes that same route. I don't think we really know the whole story of the Patty Melt and whether that left a bad taste in Pegula's mouth, he thought of it as an outlier that won't likely happen again, or he looks at it like it accomplished what he wanted it to, which is to get a solid hockey department in place. Sabre fans are very happy with Murray. And you consider Polian and an agent to both be equally capable of doing this? I don't want to speak for Kelly, and he does a very good job of speaking for himself, but nothing in that post suggests he believed Polian and France were "equally qualified" to be a consultant. That was a product of your imagination, or poor reading comprehension. As we have no idea what exactly Pegula might be looking for in a, hypothetical consultant, it's hard to say who would be a good/best choice. I thought choosing between Polian or some agent you are buddies with was a ridiculous proposition... I mean, I wouldn't take Tom Condon, the undisputed king of NFL agents over a guy with Polian's actual expertise. This also demonstrates the shallowness of your thinking. Simply because Condon is a more successful agent, it doesn't automatically make him a better choice for some hypothetical position. Being a successful agent may be the only thing Condon brings to the table for whatever, again hypothetical, position Pegula has in mind. Maybe Pegula believes, from knowing France, he helps Pegula make better decisions, for whatever reason. It isn't obvious to me that France would make a good GM, team president, etc. Maybe he would, but I doubt that is the position he would have for France. But I understand I might be wrong in this. A person who has dealt with him over the years, perhaps in many different situations, just might be a better judge of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I think Pegula sits back and assesses the team's personnel and org structure as the season unfolds. I don't think he'll be in a hurry to replace anyone or insert anyone between Brandon and Whaley. It's really premature. If Brandon-Whaley-Marrone begins to work, leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 In my OP I made it clear that I was told France would be a significant player. I've been unable to validate that since Tuesday's big news, but can't see why things would have changed. I like the idea of Polian being involved. He was the most successful GM in Bills history and one of the best of all time. I don't think the game has passed him by, give me a break, it's like riding a bike, you don't wake up one day and all of a sudden not know football. His issues at the end in Indy were more about him stepping away and letting his son do more of the heavy lifting and then of course, his loyalty to Peyton. I don't see Polian in any role but a part time consultant, an independent voice to help the Pegs evaluate the football operations. One last point, I think all of us have to remind ourselves that Whaley is still a talented, yet very young in the job and has been given a lot of responsibility. One of the best things for him would be to have a smart football guy, who is well respected than can mentor him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 In my OP I made it clear that I was told France would be a significant player. I've been unable to validate that since Tuesday's big news, but can't see why things would have changed. I like the idea of Polian being involved. He was the most successful GM in Bills history and one of the best of all time. I don't think the game has passed him by, give me a break, it's like riding a bike, you don't wake up one day and all of a sudden not know football. His issues at the end in Indy were more about him stepping away and letting his son do more of the heavy lifting and then of course, his loyalty to Peyton. I don't see Polian in any role but a part time consultant, an independent voice to help the Pegs evaluate the football operations. One last point, I think all of us have to remind ourselves that Whaley is still a talented, yet very young in the job and has been given a lot of responsibility. One of the best things for him would be to have a smart football guy, who is well respected than can mentor him. It would make the most sense from France to be the new Overdorf--a contracts type of guy that also has a bunch of key relationships that lend credibility to the organization and give the team an edge in free agent recruiting efforts. Nice job with the news by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 It would make the most sense from France to be the new Overdorf--a contracts type of guy that also has a bunch of key relationships that lend credibility to the organization and give the team an edge in free agent recruiting efforts. Nice job with the news by the way. Indeed. If this turns out to be true, then TXBILLS deserves the credit for delivering the news way before it actually happened. Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 It would make the most sense from France to be the new Overdorf--a contracts type of guy that also has a bunch of key relationships that lend credibility to the organization and give the team an edge in free agent recruiting efforts. Nice job with the news by the way. Agree on the Overdorf position. I also think the Pegs will covet the knowledge he brings with respect to the workings of NFL FO's. I think with the Pegs willingness to spend money, I can see them poaching talent from other team's scouting departments and FO's. Agents typically have very good relationships with scouts. I am very intrigued on the Polian angle. I was always a proponent of bringing him back after Indy tossed him aside, if nothing else for a mentor for Whaley. I thought he had a hell of a lot more to offer than Buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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