BobChalmers Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) But as a backup, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions, most backups are going to put up numbers comparable to what tuel did against KC. At least with tuel, there is some hope that he could get better because he is young and raw. With a guy like Derek Anderson, for example, there is no hope. He's hit his ceiling. Have you actually gone and watched the KC game or just looking at stat-lines? I haven't recently but recall that Tuel's stats were not reflective of his performance. Lots of yards in garbage time and lots of YAC is my recollection - though I could be wrong. I do clearly remember that both lines were dominating the Chiefs and the running game was working extremely well. IE, it was the sort of game Thad wins easily, but beyond Tuel's upside limitations, he consistently (in what little we've seen so far) shows a mix of choking and other very poor decision making. Edited August 26, 2014 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Have you actually gone and watched the KC game or just looking at stat-lines? I haven't recently but recall that Tuel's stats were not reflective of his performance. Lots of yards in garbage time and lots of YAC is my recollection - though I could be wrong. I do clearly remember that both lines were dominating the Chiefs and the running game was working extremely well. IE, it was the sort of game Thad wins easily, but beyond Tuel's upside limitations, he consistently (in what little we've seen so far) shows a mix of choking and other very poor decision making. 200+ rushing yards for the Bills. The Defense did not let KC score a touchdown. Still lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 200+ rushing yards for the Bills. The Defense did not let KC score a touchdown. Still lost... ...as a DIRECT result of Tuel's decision-making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Have you actually gone and watched the KC game or just looking at stat-lines? I haven't recently but recall that Tuel's stats were not reflective of his performance. Lots of yards in garbage time and lots of YAC is my recollection - though I could be wrong. I do clearly remember that both lines were dominating the Chiefs and the running game was working extremely well. IE, it was the sort of game Thad wins easily, but beyond Tuel's upside limitations, he consistently (in what little we've seen so far) shows a mix of choking and other very poor decision making. I watched the KC game (haven't re-watched it). But I remember Tuel looking really nice in the pocket against a team with a strong rush, and playing really well early, including on a beautfiul deep ball, some intermediate throws, and getting rid of the ball well. I also recall him make a poor, inaccurate throw, which led to his first pick, and then his second pick--the pick 6--which we all know was a poor read. After that second pick, he seemed to lose some confidence and looked shakier. It didn't help hias confidence when TJ Graham fumbled the game away, when the score was tied, after that pick-6, putting more pressure on Tuel to come from behind. For people who think he did nothing and it was the run game working really well, they aren't recalling what actually happened. Tuel played well for stretches of that game, showed the best pocket presence of any of our QB's, and made two bad mistakes on those picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I watched the KC game (haven't re-watched it). But I remember Tuel looking really nice in the pocket against a team with a strong rush, and playing really well early, including on a beautfiul deep ball, some intermediate throws, and getting rid of the ball well. I also recall him make a poor, inaccurate throw, which led to his first pick, and then his second pick--the pick 6--which we all know was a poor read. After that second pick, he seemed to lose some confidence and looked shakier. It didn't help hias confidence when TJ Graham fumbled the game away, when the score was tied, after that pick-6, putting more pressure on Tuel to come from behind. For people who think he did nothing and it was the run game working really well, they aren't recalling what actually happened. Tuel played well for stretches of that game, showed the best pocket presence of any of our QB's, and made two bad mistakes on those picks. This is what I don't get. EJ does that and people crucify him even after playing a good game. Tuel does that, well he is a rookie and made some mistakes. I dont get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 This is what I don't get. EJ does that and people crucify him even after playing a good game. Tuel does that, well he is a rookie and made some mistakes. I dont get it? Sounds like the opposite coming from this thread. Hell, it's still basically EJ's "rookie year," to some , but Jeff Tuel doesn't win 1.25 games as an UDFA and he's "not a winner," "he sucks," "he's a choker," etc. 200+ rushing yards for the Bills. The Defense did not let KC score a touchdown. Still lost... At least he didn't throw 4 picks and lose by 20. What QB has done that? Have you actually gone and watched the KC game or just looking at stat-lines? I haven't recently but recall that Tuel's stats were not reflective of his performance. Lots of yards in garbage time and lots of YAC is my recollection - though I could be wrong. I do clearly remember that both lines were dominating the Chiefs and the running game was working extremely well. IE, it was the sort of game Thad wins easily, but beyond Tuel's upside limitations, he consistently (in what little we've seen so far) shows a mix of choking and other very poor decision making. How many games does EJ get to "prove himself?" Anyone trying to make a Jeff Tuel "consistency," argument, better want EJ cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Tuel is limited physically and makes questionable decisions. I have never been high on him. IMO, he has no business being anywhere near an NFL 53 man roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 This is what I don't get. EJ does that and people crucify him even after playing a good game. Tuel does that, well he is a rookie and made some mistakes. I dont get it? Sounds like the opposite coming from this thread. Hell, it's still basically EJ's "rookie year," to some , but Jeff Tuel doesn't win 1.25 games as an UDFA and he's "not a winner," "he sucks," "he's a choker," etc. At least he didn't throw 4 picks and lose by 20. What QB has done that? How many games does EJ get to "prove himself?" Anyone trying to make a Jeff Tuel "consistency," argument, better want EJ cut. There is a double standard both ways on EJ and Tuel, which is probably reflective of people's different expectations and biases. I try to be consistent with how I critique the two, but it's hard, because so much more is expected from EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy in 4C Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Had EJ or Thad been in the CLE and KC game last year, we would have been 8-8. The game is too fast for him - he panics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 FYI: here is a write-up mid-game of KC game, which comports with my recollection. Really hot start, slowed a bit, but overall a really strong first half. In a certain sense, Hackett probably thought Tuel could handle that redzone pass in the second half, because Tuel looked so confident in the 1st half. Bad idea, in hindsight. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/11/3/5061764/nfl-week-9-bills-vs-chiefs-score-second-half/in/4807195 True to form, the undermanned Buffalo Bills are giving the 8-0 Kansas City Chiefs all they can handle, leading the NFL's lone remaining unbeaten team 10-3 at halftime. Jeff Tuel, making his first career start, has completed 9-of-15 passes for 139 yards with one touchdown and one interception. He started off on fire, completing five of his first seven passes for 112 yards and the touchdown, a pretty 59-yard strike to rookie speedster Marquise Goodwin. He slowed down considerably in the second half (4-of-8, 27 yards, the interception), but led the Bills on a length field goal drive to close out the half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Everyone is down on EJ, and Tuel can't beat him out for the job, so why wouldn't people be down on Tuel, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Everyone is down on EJ, and Tuel can't beat him out for the job, so why wouldn't people be down on Tuel, too? Not everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 ...as a DIRECT result of Tuel's decision-making. I still lay that one on the coaching staff. They were running at will and for some reason decided to have their 3d string QB throw over the middle into a crowded end-zone. Worst goal line call since Jauron did the same thing with a rookie QB against Dallas on MNF when a FG would have forced Dallas to score two TDs to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp2Warlick Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I really don't get why so many are quick to jump all over Jeff Tuel? For an undrafted QB only in his second year I think he has shown the potential to be a decent backup. He looked REALLY good last year in preseason. So much so that many were calling for him to be given a shot to compete with EJ as a starter. He was forced into the game with Cleveland last year when EJ got hurt, and laid an egg. He stunk. But that has happened to the best backup QBs. We all think of Frank Reich as a great backup because of the greatest comback in NFL history against Houston. But I also remember many other times he was forced in action where I would cringe when he dropped back to pass. Many who jump all over Tuel as a terrible QB point to the pick six INT against KC that turned the game around just before half time. But three things need to be pointed out. First, up to that fateful pass he was actually playing better than EJ did in any game last year. Second, that pass was intended for Stevie Johnson, who broke off the designed pattern and freelanced (as most people finally acknowledge he did routinely), resulting in the defender stepping in front of the pass and taking it to the house. Third, the pass play should have NEVER been called to begin with. All of that was a recipe for disaster for any rookie QB. As far as this year I think he has played the best out of all the Bills QBs. I know that is setting the bar low, but in my opinion he has shown more confidence, poise, mobility, and willingness to throw the ball down field than EJ. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in anyway calling for Tuel to be the Bills starting QB. That position belongs to EJ until he proves he doesn't deserve it any longer. EJ needs to be given a fair shot at developing into what we all hope he can. But I think the same holds true for Jeff Tuel in developing into a decent backup. At this point I think I've seen more out of Tuel becoming that decent backup, than I have in EJ becoming the franchise QB we all hope he will become. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) well, i guess hes officially the #2 for the near future at the very least. lets hope he can reach his potential as a competent backup quickly! FYI: here is a write-up mid-game of KC game, which comports with my recollection. Really hot start, slowed a bit, but overall a really strong first half. In a certain sense, Hackett probably thought Tuel could handle that redzone pass in the second half, because Tuel looked so confident in the 1st half. Bad idea, in hindsight. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/11/3/5061764/nfl-week-9-bills-vs-chiefs-score-second-half/in/4807195 True to form, the undermanned Buffalo Bills are giving the 8-0 Kansas City Chiefs all they can handle, leading the NFL's lone remaining unbeaten team 10-3 at halftime. Jeff Tuel, making his first career start, has completed 9-of-15 passes for 139 yards with one touchdown and one interception. He started off on fire, completing five of his first seven passes for 112 yards and the touchdown, a pretty 59-yard strike to rookie speedster Marquise Goodwin. He slowed down considerably in the second half (4-of-8, 27 yards, the interception), but led the Bills on a length field goal drive to close out the half. i hate doing the "except for the good plays he was bad" but if you take the one goodwin deep ball out, it was atrocious. he wouldve been like 45% completions, with what would be about 4 yards a pass.... and 2 ints Edited August 26, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 well, i guess hes officially the #2 for the near future at the very least. lets hope he can reach his potential as a competent backup quickly! i hate doing the "except for the good plays he was bad" but if you take the one goodwin deep ball out, it was atrocious. he wouldve been like 45% completions, with what would be about 4 yards a pass.... and 2 ints Yeah, but that big play opened up our entire run game. It wasn't just Tuel's stat line affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Not everyone. EVERYONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 EVERYONE Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Sounds like the opposite coming from this thread. Hell, it's still basically EJ's "rookie year," to some , but Jeff Tuel doesn't win 1.25 games as an UDFA and he's "not a winner," "he sucks," "he's a choker," etc. At least he didn't throw 4 picks and lose by 20. What QB has done that? How many games does EJ get to "prove himself?" Anyone trying to make a Jeff Tuel "consistency," argument, better want EJ cut. IDK, I'm getting closer to the point where I prefer a good butt-whooping to a close loss based on a 99yd pick-six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Okay. Hey, I'm just going by who's loudest on the forums! It's science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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