BillsFanForever19 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) I like Chris Hogan and feel he definitely should be one of the 5 or 6 WR's we keep. However there is NO WAY IN HELL he should be consistently taking reps over Robert Woods! I was a little confused by the game but there's a million reasons they could have been trying what they tried. I was fine with it so long as it didn't continue. But hearing it was the same way in practice last night has me ripping my hair out. Hogan has had a good camp. But he doesn't have half of Woods talent or production over the last two training camps and last season. And he doesn't have close to the rapport with Manuel that Woody does. I have to assume it's disciplinary or just to have one of the solid 3 WR's working with the 2's - for the time being. But if it continues long term and especially if it continues into the season - than i'm going to start to have some serious concerns when it comes to Marrone's decision making. Edited August 6, 2014 by BillsFanForever19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I like Chris Hogan and feel he definitely should be one of the 5 or 6 WR's we keep. However there is NO WAY IN HELL he should be consistently taking reps over Robert Woods! I was a little confused by the game but there's a million reasons they could have been trying what they tried. I was fine with it so long as it didn't continue. But hearing it was the same way in practice last night has me ripping my hair out. Hogan has had a good camp. But he doesn't have half of Woods talent or production over the last two training camps and last season. And he doesn't have close to the rapport with Manuel that Woody does. I have to assume it's disciplinary or just to have one of the solid 3 WR's working with the 2's - for the time being. But if it continues long term and especially if it continues into the season - than i'm going to start to have some serious concerns when it comes to Marrone's decision making. What if this continues and he produces in the slot?? Would you assume that Woods would have produced more, or would you be pleasantly happy/surprised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Precisely. I know our standards have been lowered but what you do with the ball AFTER the catch is important. He supposedly has sub 4.5 speed but he hasn't shown an ability to do anything after the catch. Robert Woods might not be durable enough for the slot, but he can take a short pass and do some damage with it. IMO they started Mike Williams opposite Watkins because they want the largest catching radius possible to hopefully bring down EJ's wing-and-prayer passes and build up his confidence..... so maybe Hogan is getting play because he is a bigger target as well. EJ did nearly get Woods killed a few times last year as well, maybe they just figure EJ will finish Woods off if they put him in the slot. Exactly. While we all like the hogan story, I see a guy who will catch the ball (maybe every time) a yard from the first down and get tackled every time a yard from the first down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 What if this continues and he produces in the slot?? Would you assume that Woods would have produced more, or would you be pleasantly happy/surprised To be honest - I would be both. As a Bills fan, anything that's successful and gets us wins will make me happy. But, yes, I will feel that whatever success Hogan has - Woods would have more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MClem06 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 My feeling is that Marrone is putting the players out there to see what they do in an in game situation. Hogan looked good in camp but Woods made more plays on the field. I bet you that EJ's comment about Woody not being on the field actually pissed off Marone. You don't question your own coaches decision to start a player when you don't know why he is doing it you just play the game. I think Marrone has a plan and the players need to let the man evaluate who should be on the field when regular season starts. The whole thing about preseason is that the games don't mean anything in the w/l column at the beginning of the season so the fact that people are looking at the depth chart from the HOF game and wondering why Woody wasn't out there with the 1's is laughable. If you see a guy like Hogan playing great out of the slot as a high percentage guy, putting him into the game and seeing what he's got when there is nothing on the line helps you determine if we should see more of him in that position come regular season. He knows who Robert Woods is. It's not about punishing Woods. by the third preseason game the real line up will be in for 2-3 quarters. If Hogan is anything but Subbed in to spell Woods then you can take out your pitch forks for all the Woods supporters (myself included). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 My feeling is that Marrone is putting the players out there to see what they do in an in game situation. Hogan looked good in camp but Woods made more plays on the field. I bet you that EJ's comment about Woody not being on the field actually pissed off Marone. You don't question your own coaches decision to start a player when you don't know why he is doing it you just play the game. I think Marrone has a plan and the players need to let the man evaluate who should be on the field when regular season starts. The whole thing about preseason is that the games don't mean anything in the w/l column at the beginning of the season so the fact that people are looking at the depth chart from the HOF game and wondering why Woody wasn't out there with the 1's is laughable. If you see a guy like Hogan playing great out of the slot as a high percentage guy, putting him into the game and seeing what he's got when there is nothing on the line helps you determine if we should see more of him in that position come regular season. He knows who Robert Woods is. It's not about punishing Woods. by the third preseason game the real line up will be in for 2-3 quarters. If Hogan is anything but Subbed in to spell Woods then you can take out your pitch forks for all the Woods supporters (myself included). Agreed... I would be surprised to see other players at different positions experience the same type of treatment... They may not play or run with a different unit while someone lower on the depth chart runs with the ones... Hard to evaluate 2/3 string talent when they aren't playing against 1's Cohen is a perfect example (I think)... He might look like an all pro against the 3's, but line him up with our starting unit against someone else's starting unit, and he disappears... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) What if this continues and he produces in the slot?? Would you assume that Woods would have produced more, or would you be pleasantly happy/surprised Well...Is that a hard assumption? Robert Woods was a consensus All American as a Soph at USC, he's a 2nd Rd Draft pick, and he had almost 600 yds in 14 games as a Rookie in the NFL catching balls from 3 VERY inexperienced QB's...I really don't think it's much of an assumption if anyone jumps to the conclusion that Woods would be better regardless... That being said if Hogan turns out to be the next big thing in the slot I would definitely be pleasantly happy/surprised... Edited August 6, 2014 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MClem06 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) Country Cletus you are spot on. Cohen busted through their 2nd or even 3rd string lineman. Can he do that against the 1st stringers? Other people are also saying that Marrone was short with media because he played against the guy he really wanted at QB and realized how much talent they missed out on not drafting Nassib over EJ. Saying that EJ was Buddy's choice not Marrone's but that is all heresay and I guess we will find out what EJ brings to the table this year on the field. I hope it's the guy we saw against Carolina last year but hey I'm a glass half full guy. It sucks to know that any consistently good QB would guarantee this team a playoff birth just due to the talent surrounding him. Yet that is our biggest question mark! Edited August 6, 2014 by MClem06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 What if this continues and he produces in the slot?? Would you assume that Woods would have produced more, or would you be pleasantly happy/surprised Hogan shouldn't be playing instead of Woods, that's silly. Woods is a high 2nd round pick (should have gone end of 1st really) with the pedigree (all-american at powerhouse USC). Hogan is a former lacrosse player/freak of nature. Hogan is improving daily but he's not on Robert Woods' level. I could see them using Hogan situationally like on 3rd and short or goal line, but Woods should definitely be starting. And anyone quoting Hogan's game stats, that doesn't paint the whole picture. Go to a practice and you will see that Hogan is one of the better athletes on the entire team. He really stands out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 Agreed... I would be surprised to see other players at different positions experience the same type of treatment... They may not play or run with a different unit while someone lower on the depth chart runs with the ones... Hard to evaluate 2/3 string talent when they aren't playing against 1's Cohen is a perfect example (I think)... He might look like an all pro against the 3's, but line him up with our starting unit against someone else's starting unit, and he disappears... That's fine if they wanted to get a look at him in the HOF game against the 1's. It makes sense, in fact. But why is he still practicing with the 1's at camp? I have no problem with him making the team. Based on reports, I think he should make thew team as a depth player and maybe even get a few snaps in the slot in games based on matchups/formations. But I cannot wrap my head around him being on the field before Woods. If it didn't continue into camp last night, I wouldn't be worried. Plus people at camp tweeting about Woods has a chance to "earn" his starting role back. What has he done to lose it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Hogan shouldn't be playing instead of Woods, that's silly. Woods is a high 2nd round pick (should have gone end of 1st really) with the pedigree (all-american at powerhouse USC). Hogan is a former lacrosse player/freak of nature. Hogan is improving daily but he's not on Robert Woods' level. I could see them using Hogan situationally like on 3rd and short or goal line, but Woods should definitely be starting. And anyone quoting Hogan's game stats, that doesn't paint the whole picture. Go to a practice and you will see that Hogan is one of the better athletes on the entire team. He really stands out I hope people don't think that I am claiming Hogan should be ahead of Woods, I'm just saying that it's crazy to think that if Hogan IS ahead of him, I'm sure it's due to the coaching staff seeing that he is NOW ahead of Woods as far as ability... Not looking at their college stats or where they were drafted (or if they were a UDFA)... A HC would would almost certainly not play someone (ie Hogan over Woods) if they hadn't determined that they weren't the better player, whether it be for a specific situation or throughout the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MClem06 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) WR is the deepest position that we have on the roster. It means nothing without consistency at QB. I am more amazed that the Coaching staff hasn't brought in more QB's to compete. I know there isn't much out there (*Josh Freeman looks like the best option which isn't saying much) but take in 3 or even 4 UFA's at the beginning and see if we find a diamond in the rough (i.e Kurt Warner). If they get questioned about it then they can scapegoat it on the fact that behind EJ there really isn't much which is true. Edited August 6, 2014 by MClem06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Let the better man play. Plain and simple. It doesn`t matter where you are drafted. On another note EJ struggled again in practice. This time against some of the 2nd D. Here we go again. 5-11 or 6-10. They need to blow a horn or whistle in set time to get EJ to let the ball loose.Sacked 4 times in 9 plays. Maybe they can ressurect that same system they used for Bledsoe. (not this again) I think that 5-11/6-10 may be generous. I'm thinking 3-13 and Cleveland having a top-3 pick. If Winston comes out I'm going to be pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 WR is the deepest position that we have on the roster. It means nothing without consistency at QB. I am more amazed that the Coaching staff hasn't brought in more QB's to compete. I know there isn't much out there (*Josh Freeman looks like the best option which isn't saying much) but take in 3 or even 4 UFA's at the beginning and see if we find a diamond in the rough. If they get questioned about it then they can scapegoat it on the fact that behind EJ there really isn't much which is true. They probably feel like they did that last year and now they are happy with their backups. I would disagree after what Thad has shown as of late. Are we really going to go into the season with Jeff Tuel as our backup? I would prefer a veteran backup with game experience. Kolb would have fit that role if he wasn't busy slipping on mats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 it's preseason people! we all know Woods can play, Hogan is like the mouse being batted around by a cat, just testing him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I like Chris Hogan and feel he definitely should be one of the 5 or 6 WR's we keep. However there is NO WAY IN HELL he should be consistently taking reps over Robert Woods! I was a little confused by the game but there's a million reasons they could have been trying what they tried. I was fine with it so long as it didn't continue. But hearing it was the same way in practice last night has me ripping my hair out. I can't believe everyone's getting upset over this. They played the starters for what, two series? They're just trying Hogan out. They know what Woods can do, he's arguably the best WR on the team right now and is the only one that's taken a significant number of reps from Manuel. Think of it that way. I don't know how many times I've pointed out, to the seeming outrage of many, that this team has hardly and preexisting chemistry between its QB and WRs and that that is going to be a huge negative this season. You don't just develop that "in camp." It takes many real-time games to get that going. Look at Brady last season and there's no comparison between Brady and Manuel, they're at opposite ends of the spectrum. Actually, in light of the many things that make them seem like they don't know what they're doing, and coincidence or not, they should be applauded for giving Hogan, Mike Williams, and Watkins the most playing time. Woods and Goodwin have already played a season with EJ. Heck, maybe even start those three with the first team next game. We know what Goodwin is, a flyer, that's about it. His value is going to come down to whether or not Manuel can hit him. Woods is a pretty universal WR that can run a bunch of routes. Not sure exactly how good he is yet, but whatever level that is he won't be held back by a lack of versatility. Hogan only seems to have skills as a slot guy, so it makes sense to give him more reps right now. Actually, what makes the most sense is for Manuel to play most of every preseason game still, but that won't happen. The one that needs the reps more than anyone, and to help everyone, is him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 I can't believe everyone's getting upset over this. They played the starters for what, two series? They're just trying Hogan out. They know what Woods can do, he's arguably the best WR on the team right now and is the only one that's taken a significant number of reps from Manuel. Think of it that way. I don't know how many times I've pointed out, to the seeming outrage of many, that this team has hardly and preexisting chemistry between its QB and WRs and that that is going to be a huge negative this season. You don't just develop that "in camp." It takes many real-time games to get that going. Look at Brady last season and there's no comparison between Brady and Manuel, they're at opposite ends of the spectrum. Actually, in light of the many things that make them seem like they don't know what they're doing, and coincidence or not, they should be applauded for giving Hogan, Mike Williams, and Watkins the most playing time. Woods and Goodwin have already played a season with EJ. Heck, maybe even start those three with the first team next game. We know what Goodwin is, a flyer, that's about it. His value is going to come down to whether or not Manuel can hit him. Woods is a pretty universal WR that can run a bunch of routes. Not sure exactly how good he is yet, but whatever level that is he won't be held back by a lack of versatility. Hogan only seems to have skills as a slot guy, so it makes sense to give him more reps right now. Actually, what makes the most sense is for Manuel to play most of every preseason game still, but that won't happen. The one that needs the reps more than anyone, and to help everyone, is him. Yes, because every other starting QB in the league does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have to believe Wood will see a ton of minutes and looks this year. There will be plenty of 3 and 4 wide receiver sets. I don't know about that, hasn't Marrone said he wants to run more? Not sure how much more you can run that being 1st in the league in rushing attempts, but it doesn't sound like it's going to go down, they're mitigating what Manuel needs to do, same as they did at FSU after they threw in the towel on trying to correct him. They keep talking as if they're going to try to keep Manuel down to 30 or fewer attempts per game. That doesn't suggest that they're going to be running a whole lot of 4 WR sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Country Cletus you are spot on. Cohen busted through their 2nd or even 3rd string lineman. Can he do that against the 1st stringers? Other people are also saying that Marrone was short with media because he played against the guy he really wanted at QB and realized how much talent they missed out on not drafting Nassib over EJ. Saying that EJ was Buddy's choice not Marrone's but that is all heresay and I guess we will find out what EJ brings to the table this year on the field. I hope it's the guy we saw against Carolina last year but hey I'm a glass half full guy. It sucks to know that any consistently good QB would guarantee this team a playoff birth just due to the talent surrounding him. Yet that is our biggest question mark! This is really hard to believe. By people do u mean your friends? Not trying to sound like a d&%k but i kinda laughed when i read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Yes, because every other starting QB in the league does that. Yes, because every other starting QB in the league doesn't suck and isn't flirting with permanent irrelevance in the NFL. Really? Do you really need to have that explained? Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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