Bills Fan in Beantown Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I love all of the optimistic posts!!! Give me EJ and Spiller and I think it all falls into place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I think that EJ needs to take steps for sure but I don't think that he needs to get to that level yet. If he gets even to Dalton territory this team is good. If he gets to Cutler territory they will be really good. Those guys aren't top 100 type players. If EJ can be between the 13-18th best QB the Bills can be a playoff team. Would you be satisfied with a Daltonesque EJ? I would not. He plays on a very talented team and has exactly how many playoff victories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) Would you be satisfied with a Daltonesque EJ? I would not. He plays on a very talented team and has exactly how many playoff victories? Would I be thrilled if that were his ceiling -no. If I were to tell you that EJ was to complete 62.3% of his passes for 3,669 yards, 27 TDs & 16 INTs would you be okay with that? Those were Dalton's numbers in his 2nd season. EJ did not approach those numbers last year. If he were to get to Dalton of 2012 I would be really happy. Edited June 6, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offyourocker Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Gordy Glenn pro bowl level play EJ almost considered for pro-bowl Mike Williams 1350 yards Chris Williams to be all people thought he could be coming out of college woods to break 1000 yards spiller to run and receive 1800 yards combined I will look at defense tomorrow because I am exhausted with all the excitment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 take a leap... do you mean over the Falls? I can think of a few who might be candidates. take a leap to improve... EJ has the opportunity, let's see if he can do it. Somebody named Williams (other than Mario) will also become a household name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Would I be thrilled if that were his ceiling -no. If I were to tell you that EJ was to complete 62.3% of his passes for 3,669 yards, 27 TDs & 16 INTs would you be okay with that? Those were Dalton's numbers in his 2nd season. EJ did not approach those numbers last year. If he were to get to Dalton of 2012 I would be really happy. I know that you probably expect this answer, but since it's the truth...only one stat matters & that's wins including playoff wins. OJ's run to 2000 was fun, it got people talking, but beyond that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 I know that you probably expect this answer, but since it's the truth...only one stat matters & that's wins including playoff wins. OJ's run to 2000 was fun, it got people talking, but beyond that??? He has the same number of playoff wins as EJ. I am no sure I am following the point? The questions was if EJ improved to that level this season would you be satisfied? For me it is unequivocally yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 He has the same number of playoff wins as EJ. I am no sure I am following the point? The questions was if EJ improved to that level this season would you be satisfied? For me it is unequivocally yes. I don't think that Dalton has been successful. So, no...if EJ matches his stats including the # of playoff wins I won't be satisfied. PFF says Bradham is the guy who makes the leap. I can't sign up for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) I don't think that Dalton has been successful. So, no...if EJ matches his stats including the # of playoff wins I won't be satisfied. PFF says Bradham is the guy who makes the leap. I can't sign up for this. So if EJ improves his completion percentage by 4%, throws for 32 more yards per game, 500 more than he was on target for (1700 more total) and 10 more TDS than he was on target for (16 more total) you wouldn't be satisfied? Again, I do not think that Dalton is great but there is a gulf between the 2 at this point. If you think that EJ is going to improve by more than that I would say that history says otherwise. What would be acceptable to you? Please do not say playoff wins because Cam & Foles have never won playoff games and you would take them in a heartbeat (at least I think that you are that reasonable). Edited June 7, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 So if EJ improves his completion percentage by 4%, throws for 32 more yards per game, 500 more than he was on target for (1700 more total) and 10 more TDS than he was on target for (16 more total) you wouldn't be satisfied? Again, I do not think that Dalton is great but there is a gulf between the 2 at this point. If you think that EJ is going to improve by more than that I would say that history says otherwise. What would be acceptable to you? Please do not say playoff wins because Cam & Foles have never won playoff games and you would take them in a heartbeat (at least I think that you are that reasonable). Newton does not have talent surrounding him like Dalton does. Haven't seen enough of Foles yet, but, early returns look good. I would not want Dalton on the Bills. I would love Newton on the Bills. I'm undecided about Foles on the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Newton does not have talent surrounding him like Dalton does. Haven't seen enough of Foles yet, but, early returns look good. I would not want Dalton on the Bills. I would love Newton on the Bills. I'm undecided about Foles on the Bills. I am not talking about Dalton joining the Bills just to be clear. I am saying if EJ turned in the exact same year 2 performance as Dalton I would be ecstatic. It would be pretty much on par with Bledsoe in 2002 (less yards, a higher completion % and a few more TDs). If we are expecting more than that I think that we need to temper our expectations. That would be a monumental leap. One more thing, Jim Kelly only threw for more yards and more TDs than that once. Edited June 7, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I was going to say Duke Williams, but since the question was who will leap into the top 100, then I am going with Stephon Gilmore. I am praying that it's Manuel, even if he ends up being number 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Would I be thrilled if that were his ceiling -no. If I were to tell you that EJ was to complete 62.3% of his passes for 3,669 yards, 27 TDs & 16 INTs would you be okay with that? Those were Dalton's numbers in his 2nd season. EJ did not approach those numbers last year. If he were to get to Dalton of 2012 I would be really happy. If EJ's ceiling is equal to Dalton's, I would be happy for a season or two. Dalton is not a Super Bowl QB, but he is good enough to give the team a real shot at the playoffs every year. I would want the Bills to be seriously looking for a Franchise QB in every draft while putting all the pieces in place around the QB. The Bills are still a few years away from building a Super Bowl caliber team, but having a team that could make the post season exciting while they finished putting all those pieces together would be sweet. Even with a Franchise QB, the Bills at this point are still not a Super Bowl caliber team. Maybe the pieces are here already with the current rookies, but even then those other rookies need the time to mature into their true potential.A Super Bowl team is not built in a single season anymore with the Cap. I'd be happy with a "Daltonesqe" type EJ in the mean-time as long as the Bills were still aggressively searching to find their real Franchise QB, and not settling for a "Dalton". Edited June 7, 2014 by simpleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I am not talking about Dalton joining the Bills just to be clear. I am saying if EJ turned in the exact same year 2 performance as Dalton I would be ecstatic. It would be pretty much on par with Bledsoe in 2002 (less yards, a higher completion % and a few more TDs). If we are expecting more than that I think that we need to temper our expectations. That would be a monumental leap. One more thing, Jim Kelly only threw for more yards and more TDs than that once. Not sure how much more clear I can be. I have no interest in the Bills having a Daltonesque QB. He is surrounded by talent and he is unable to do enough to win against the best teams. Have you heard rumblings about Cincinnati re-signing him? Why not? No, if EJ becomes Dalton I will not be a happy camper. I don't want a QB good enough to win games against weaker competition but unable to elevate his game against the best. If EJ's ceiling is Dalton then the ceiling is too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Not sure how much more clear I can be. I have no interest in the Bills having a Daltonesque QB. He is surrounded by talent and he is unable to do enough to win against the best teams. Have you heard rumblings about Cincinnati re-signing him? Why not? No, if EJ becomes Dalton I will not be a happy camper. I don't want a QB good enough to win games against weaker competition but unable to elevate his game against the best. If EJ's ceiling is Dalton then the ceiling is too low. I understand your sentiments in your discussion with Kirby Jackson. It seems to me that your position relates to EJ's maximum upside compared to Dalton's upside. But as it stands if EJ plays at a Dalton like level i.e. simply competetently he will be making a quantum leap forward in his sophomore season and so will the team. I'll gladly take that upward trajectory. As it stands it is fair to say we know what type of qb Dalton is. He is a manager type qb who will never be mistaken for an elite dynamic qb. Although he will never be considered an elite caliber of qb he is in my opinion a legitimate franchise qb. With respect to EJ it is still too early to make a fair assessment as to whether he is capable of being a legitimate franchise qb. To a large degree his rookie year was squandered from a developmental standpoint because he was hurt. Again, if he plays at a Dalton-like level this season I will be satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 We really need it to be EJ Manuel on the offensive side. He's the key o the teams success. On defense, we need someone in the secondary to step up become a play making. Gilmour, Williams, Duke, someone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I'm going with EJ as I predict he racks up over 4,000 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Not sure how much more clear I can be. I have no interest in the Bills having a Daltonesque QB. He is surrounded by talent and he is unable to do enough to win against the best teams. Have you heard rumblings about Cincinnati re-signing him? Why not? No, if EJ becomes Dalton I will not be a happy camper. I don't want a QB good enough to win games against weaker competition but unable to elevate his game against the best. If EJ's ceiling is Dalton then the ceiling is too low. This has nothing to do with EJ in his entire career. We are talking about year 2 EJ geting to the level of year 2 Dalton. So if EJ turned in the 3rd best season a QB has ever had in a Bills uniform it won't be enough??? Got it You need to seperate yourself from Dalton the player and look at what he did in year 2. You still did not answer the question of what you would be satisfied with if 62% completion, 3,669 yards, 27 TDs an 16 INTs is not enough? Edited June 7, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) We really need it to be EJ Manuel on the offensive side. He's the key o the teams success. On defense, we need someone in the secondary to step up become a play making. Gilmour, Williams, Duke, someone! We need EJ to make a year 1 to year 2 leap in progress, but IMO he doesn't need to make it into the Top 100 players in the NFL next year for the team to make the playoffs. If EJ's ceiling is equal to Dalton's, I would be happy for a season or two. Dalton is not a Super Bowl QB, but he is good enough to give the team a real shot at the playoffs every year. I would want the Bills to be seriously looking for a Franchise QB in every draft while putting all the pieces in place around the QB. The Bills are still a few years away from building a Super Bowl caliber team, but having a team that could make the post season exciting while they finished putting all those pieces together would be sweet. Even with a Franchise QB, the Bills at this point are still not a Super Bowl caliber team. Maybe the pieces are here already with the current rookies, but even then those other rookies need the time to mature into their true potential.A Super Bowl team is not built in a single season anymore with the Cap. I'd be happy with a "Daltonesqe" type EJ in the mean-time as long as the Bills were still aggressively searching to find their real Franchise QB, and not settling for a "Dalton". Dalton's story isn't over yet, I agree he has not looked very good in his playoff games but he took a franchise that was pretty awful and has gotten them to the playoffs 3 straight years. Also, Cincy's defense was kind of overrated last year IMO. Personally I think Hue Jackson will do a better job with the offense this year than Jay Gruden had done. If EJ gave us 3 straight years of playoffs, after 14 years of none, yep I would be happy. We would be having the same discussion as Cincy maybe on whether he can win the big one, but I'd rather have that convo than whether we will ever make the playoffs. Edited June 7, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 That would be great if Nigel Bradham could stop the run along with Spikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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