ESPN Insider--some doubt as to how Watkins game translates at NFL leve

[K-9]

Of course, projecting the use of next year's first rounder is a hypothetical exercise. And being bold is great - I'm the last person to suggest a lame, conservative course of action. I just think this type of trade was reckless. I believe that trading a future first rounder to move up 5 spots for a WR when the team has a pretty good chance of missing the playoffs (again) is not a prudent risk to take. I of course hope I am dead wrong.

 

I guess it's a matter of what the alternatives were. I agree with the Bills' desire to surround EJ with playmakers. What's the better outcome?

 

(1)

 

Watkins + No 2015 1st rounder

 

or

 

(2)

 

Ebron + 2015 1st rounder

 

If the Bills were a playoff team the year before or if EJ had established himself as the franchise QB, I'd take (1). Given where the Bills are today, I'd take (2) and I'm of course hoping that this trade proves me dead wrong

 

With all due respect, based on what they've shown in their college careers and what the consensus is regarding their potential at the next level, Ebron can't carry Watkins' jock. Couldn't be happier we got the best offensive talent in the draft, bar none.

 

And once again, EJ's potential has nothing to do with anything regarding the Watkins trade. He's here through 2015 most likely, so I wouldn't sweat missing an unidentified QB prospect until then. Actually, I'm not gonna sweat it anyway. There's no guarantee we'll be in a position to draft a franchise QB and there's a better chance a much better football player will be available to us, anyway.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[3rdand12]

With all due respect, based on what they've shown in their college careers and what the consensus is regarding their potential at the next level, Ebron can't carry Watkins' jock. Couldn't be happier we got the best offensive talent in the draft, bar none.

 

And once again, EJ's potential has nothing to do with anything regarding the Watkins trade. He's here through 2015 most likely, so I wouldn't sweat missing an unidentified QB prospect until then. Actually, I'm not gonna sweat it anyway. There's no guarantee we'll be in a position to draft a franchise QB and there's a better chance a much better football player will be available to us, anyway.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I did not want to appear rude . But yes , this seems to be true on both counts. Thanks K-9

[K-9]

I did not want to appear rude . But yes , this seems to be true on both counts. Thanks K-9

 

Are you saying I'm rude, 3rd?

 

Like Alaska Darin said, "Watkins is a witch!"

 

GO BILLS!!!

[snamsnoops]

Which front office are you referring to? The one that took over one year ago? Quite a trick squeezing 3 whole seasons into one year.

So U R saying this FO isn't the reason the Bills have sucked for over 10+years, and the loss of 4 straight SB's! Ralph is cheap!

[Rocky Landing]

With all due respect, based on what they've shown in their college careers and what the consensus is regarding their potential at the next level, Ebron can't carry Watkins' jock. Couldn't be happier we got the best offensive talent in the draft, bar none.

 

And once again, EJ's potential has nothing to do with anything regarding the Watkins trade. He's here through 2015 most likely, so I wouldn't sweat missing an unidentified QB prospect until then. Actually, I'm not gonna sweat it anyway. There's no guarantee we'll be in a position to draft a franchise QB and there's a better chance a much better football player will be available to us, anyway.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Do we really know this? I'm not asking to pick a fight. I really don't watch much college ball-- I've only seen his highlights. What I saw was certainly impressive, no doubt. But, watching the highlights, I had two thoughts: 1) I didn't see any amazing grabs. He seemed to always be open. Does he have the ability to get to the ball in tough coverage? The ability to get open is great-- but certainly won't be as easy in the NFL. How will he perform vs an NFL DB? 2) His speed is amazing. His acceleration is amazing. And he knocked over defenders like they were bowling pins. BUT, I couldn't help thinking that there isn't a single person on any NFL defense that would get knocked down like the college players shown in his reel.

 

I know you're a huge Watkins fan, and I assume you watch college ball. Educate me.

[DOGNESS]

No doubt that the guy who wrote this article is a complete moron.

 

Uh, we gave up a first and a fourth to trade him? That's a lot of confidence in a prospect. If your definition of "all-in" needs us to give up 14 picks, then no, I guess we didn't go all in.

 

Let's put it this way. If he busts, it will be one of the worst busts in Bills history. Because it doesn't just cost us 1 pick, it cost us 3.

It cost us two picks. We got one back to pick Watkins or doesnt that count?

 

This board never ceases to amaze me. The amount of kool-aid drinking following 3 straight 6-10 seasons and a bet-the-farm / mortgage-the-future trade for a wide receiver is nothing short of amazing

Your nothing short of annoying.

[OCinBuffalo]

Deal with reality: If one of the teams coverd by ESPN Big Market had moved up to get Watkins, it would be hailed as sheer genius.

 

They didn't. The Bills did. So you get this story instead.

 

What is the very last thing the fans of the 3 Big Market teams in our division want to hear? Hmm...that their rival has done something they should be very worried about? If those fans hear that, they might become demoralized. They might not show up at ESPN Big Market tomorrow and click on something.

 

That costs ESPN $(which is WTF this is always about).

 

So..."how's about we run a story that acknowledges Watkins(because we have to for credibility's sake), but auto-marginalizes him right after?" This way, it's real, but it's not so bad for Dolphins/Pats/Jets fans.

 

Thus? Click-rate preserved!

 

Same story. Different day.

Edited May 17, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[3rdand12]

Auto marginalize. first time i have seen that . Fits though.

 

K -9 , no. i just dont want to crticise peeples opinions. even when they are wrong .

 

Watkins pick was definitive. and solid . The solid bit was from me opening my mind and doing some legwork. From folks here abouts too helping me learn who this character is. i certainly was not a trade up fellow , and not in a Watkins state of mind.

 

Since the mind melding i feel much much better.

Actually i am quite and ofificially on board wth this pick now.

 

Go Bills

[ExWNYer]

Dear ESPN,

 

Thank you for continually educating us with your brilliance and insight. You are the omniscient king of all things sport.

 

Sincerely,

 

The Unwashed Masses

[K-9]

Do we really know this? I'm not asking to pick a fight. I really don't watch much college ball-- I've only seen his highlights. What I saw was certainly impressive, no doubt. But, watching the highlights, I had two thoughts: 1) I didn't see any amazing grabs. He seemed to always be open. Does he have the ability to get to the ball in tough coverage? The ability to get open is great-- but certainly won't be as easy in the NFL. How will he perform vs an NFL DB? 2) His speed is amazing. His acceleration is amazing. And he knocked over defenders like they were bowling pins. BUT, I couldn't help thinking that there isn't a single person on any NFL defense that would get knocked down like the college players shown in his reel.

 

I know you're a huge Watkins fan, and I assume you watch college ball. Educate me.

 

There's nothing I can say that will sway you one way or the other. As I've mentioned, I have a couple long-time friends in the business and while they both agree that he's a special talent in terms of routes, hands, etc., they both had me look at how he sets his feet as he's about to catch the ball, especially on screens. He tends to put himself in a running position a split second before he makes the catch; no wasted motion. I thought that was interesting and unique.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Auto marginalize. first time i have seen that . Fits though.

 

K -9 , no. i just dont want to crticise peeples opinions. even when they are wrong .

 

Watkins pick was definitive. and solid . The solid bit was from me opening my mind and doing some legwork. From folks here abouts too helping me learn who this character is. i certainly was not a trade up fellow , and not in a Watkins state of mind.

 

Since the mind melding i feel much much better.

Actually i am quite and ofificially on board wth this pick now.

 

Go Bills

 

3rd, my good man. There is no such thing as a "wrong" opinion. Some are simply informed differently than others. Then there's the pesky "confirmation bias" that can get out of hand at times. It's all good, though.

 

Most of the time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited May 17, 2014 by K-9

[Big Turk]

Uh, we gave up a first and a fourth to trade him? That's a lot of confidence in a prospect. If your definition of "all-in" needs us to give up 14 picks, then no, I guess we didn't go all in.

 

Let's put it this way. If he busts, it will be one of the worst busts in Bills history. Because it doesn't just cost us 1 pick, it cost us 3.

 

We gave up 2 1st's, a 2nd and Greg Bell to get Cornelius Bennett...by those standards this is nothing,,,

 

Washington gave up 2 additional 1st's, a 2nd, and swapped 1st's with St. Louis in 2012 to move up 4 picks to get Robert Griffin...

 

Atlanta swapped 1st's, and gave up a 2nd, and 4th in 2011, then a 1st and 4th in 2012...

 

Looking at these deals, what Buffalo gave up isn't really that much

[Big Turk]

Do we really know this? I'm not asking to pick a fight. I really don't watch much college ball-- I've only seen his highlights. What I saw was certainly impressive, no doubt. But, watching the highlights, I had two thoughts: 1) I didn't see any amazing grabs. He seemed to always be open. Does he have the ability to get to the ball in tough coverage? The ability to get open is great-- but certainly won't be as easy in the NFL. How will he perform vs an NFL DB? 2) His speed is amazing. His acceleration is amazing. And he knocked over defenders like they were bowling pins. BUT, I couldn't help thinking that there isn't a single person on any NFL defense that would get knocked down like the college players shown in his reel.

 

I know you're a huge Watkins fan, and I assume you watch college ball. Educate me.

 

One of the articles I was reading was about how the guy saw him play Virginia twice last year and he made a play and the guy just said "wow..." and the Virginia coach looked at him, shook his head and said "that was more than just wow..."

 

Think that about sums it up...he dominated against the best players in college

[Cynical]

No doubt that the guy who wrote this article is a complete moron.

 

It cost us two picks. We got one back to pick Watkins or doesnt that count?

 

No it doesn't, because I think you missed his point. The Bills spent/used 3 draft picks to get this guy (a 1st in 2014, a 1st in 2015, and 4th in 2015).

If Watkins becomes a bust, that was a heavy price to pay.

 

Your nothing short of annoying.

 

The OP made numerous valid points.

Just because you do not agree with him, he's not the one that's annoying.

[Orton's Arm]

Deal with reality: If one of the teams coverd by ESPN Big Market had moved up to get Watkins, it would be hailed as sheer genius.

 

They didn't. The Bills did. So you get this story instead.

 

What is the very last thing the fans of the 3 Big Market teams in our division want to hear? Hmm...that their rival has done something they should be very worried about? If those fans hear that, they might become demoralized. They might not show up at ESPN Big Market tomorrow and click on something.

 

That costs ESPN $(which is WTF this is always about).

 

So..."how's about we run a story that acknowledges Watkins(because we have to for credibility's sake), but auto-marginalizes him right after?" This way, it's real, but it's not so bad for Dolphins/Pats/Jets fans.

 

Thus? Click-rate preserved!

 

Same story. Different day.

 

> Deal with reality: If one of the teams coverd by ESPN Big Market had moved up to get Watkins, it would be hailed as sheer genius.

 

> They didn't. The Bills did. So you get this story instead.

 

Sportswriters are supposed to be accurate. In a perfect world, they'd focus only on that; without trying to stir the pot with inaccurate hyperbole. Being accurate is their job.

 

The Bills haven't made the playoffs in 14 years. During that time, a number of negative things have been written about this team and its plans. For the most part, those negative things weren't the result of an anti-Buffalo or pro-Jets/Pats/Dolphins bias. They were the result of reporters doing their jobs; correctly predicting that most of the Bills' moves would fail. The 14 year playoff drought is clear and indisputable proof most of those moves did fail.

 

I harbor those reporters no ill-will for having told the truth. It's the Bills' front office's responsibility to make good moves. Not reporters' responsibility to candy-coat fecal matter.

 

I didn't read the ESPN piece because it's behind a pay wall. But if this reporter is voicing concerns about Watkins now, it's very possible he'd harbored such concerns prior to the draft. Only time will tell if those concerns are legitimate. But I think they're more likely based on his views of Watkins the player than his opinion of the Bills' front office.

[Koufax]

I don't hate the trade and I think the pick we gave up will be 18+ and not a "darn, we could have drafted Maybin" top 12 pick.

 

BBut I think Watkins will have a tough time outperforming Stevie in 2014. Certainly over the next five combined he will, but rookie receivers have a limited impact and even Calvin Johnson didn't get up to Stevie's baseline.

 

So for just 2014 I would rather have Mack and Stevie than just Watkins.

 

Over the next five we will have to see, but Mack and some Stevie probably wins out, while Ebron, Stevie, and the #18 pick in 2015 might represent the most value.

 

As long as we win enough games to make the 2015 pick not sting, and Watkins and EJ have a long successful run together, this might not be great value but won't be horrible.

 

The three things that can go more wrong are for Watkins to not be elite, Mack to be as great as he might, or for the 2015 pick to end up higher than us optimists think.

 

It is a gamble of a deal and one I think will give us less value in 2014 and less over the next five years than the other options I memtion, but not by enough of a probability/margin that it will really hurt the franchise.

 

[1B4IDie]

 

> Deal with reality: If one of the teams coverd by ESPN Big Market had moved up to get Watkins, it would be hailed as sheer genius.

 

> They didn't. The Bills did. So you get this story instead.

 

Sportswriters are supposed to be accurate. In a perfect world, they'd focus only on that; without trying to stir the pot with inaccurate hyperbole. Being accurate is their job.

 

The Bills haven't made the playoffs in 14 years. During that time, a number of negative things have been written about this team and its plans. For the most part, those negative things weren't the result of an anti-Buffalo or pro-Jets/Pats/Dolphins bias. They were the result of reporters doing their jobs; correctly predicting that most of the Bills' moves would fail. The 14 year playoff drought is clear and indisputable proof most of those moves did fail.

 

I harbor those reporters no ill-will for having told the truth. It's the Bills' front office's responsibility to make good moves. Not reporters' responsibility to candy-coat fecal matter.

 

I didn't read the ESPN piece because it's behind a pay wall. But if this reporter is voicing concerns about Watkins now, it's very possible he'd harbored such concerns prior to the draft. Only time will tell if those concerns are legitimate. But I think they're more likely based on his views of Watkins the player than his opinion of the Bills' front office.

What?

 

The job of a sports writer is to entertain people and increase readers.

 

It has nothing to do with accuracy. Its funny you would say that the job of a sportswriter is to be accurate.

[Orton's Arm]

What?

 

The job of a sports writer is to entertain people and increase readers.

 

It has nothing to do with accuracy. Its funny you would say that the job of a sportswriter is to be accurate.

 

For me personally, an insightful sportswriter, with a deep knowledge of his subject, is entertaining. A guy who knows little, but acts like he knows a lot, might seem entertaining at first. But after I've realized he's a hollow shell, I find no further purpose in listening to him.

 

Maybe other people's preferences are different than mine. Maybe there are those who are perfectly content to read the same sportswriter for years, long after he's proved that he's full of hot air.

[Rocky Landing]

What?

 

The job of a sports writer is to entertain people and increase readers.

 

It has nothing to do with accuracy. Its funny you would say that the job of a sportswriter is to be accurate.

Ignorant, trolling statement.

[Luka]

We gave up 2 1st's, a 2nd and Greg Bell to get Cornelius Bennett...by those standards this is nothing,,,

 

Washington gave up 2 additional 1st's, a 2nd, and swapped 1st's with St. Louis in 2012 to move up 4 picks to get Robert Griffin...

 

Atlanta swapped 1st's, and gave up a 2nd, and 4th in 2011, then a 1st and 4th in 2012...

 

Looking at these deals, what Buffalo gave up isn't really that much

 

I know this is a Bills board and all... but how do people not see this? One first round pick to move up to 4 and grab what some had claimed was the best talent in this class? And considering the Bills' success rate in the first round, there is no way of knowing the Bills hit on the 2015 first rounder. For all we know, Dareus could be packaged with a pick come next year to move back into the first.

 

This certainly was a great move in terms of what we paid to move up and the player we got. The concern for me is whether or not our highly suspect offensive coordinator can get the offense rolling this year.

[All_Pro_Bills]

I know this is a Bills board and all... but how do people not see this? One first round pick to move up to 4 and grab what some had claimed was the best talent in this class? And considering the Bills' success rate in the first round, there is no way of knowing the Bills hit on the 2015 first rounder. For all we know, Dareus could be packaged with a pick come next year to move back into the first.

 

This certainly was a great move in terms of what we paid to move up and the player we got. The concern for me is whether or not our highly suspect offensive coordinator can get the offense rolling this year.

Most people that don't like the move up have reservations with the Bills decision on Watkins basically because they don't see this making the Bills any better and foresee another 6-10 type season and a bottom 10 finish. They expect the 1st next year will be a top 10 pick. If the pick turns out to be a high 20 next year with the Bills making the playoffs and having a winning season then the deal won't look so bad. For now speculation is all anyone can do and we won't know until December whether Whaley's move was a couragous decision or a major blunder.