Report: agreement forbids sale to an owner who would relocate

[Cash]

Florio says in the linked article: "Without access to a full copy of the full lease, it’s impossible to know whether the team can be sold to someone who intends to relocate in compliance with the terms of the agreement."

 

In other words, he has not read it despite the fact it is readily available on the Erie County Govt. website: http://www2.erie.gov...s-stadium-lease

 

His commentary is based on a reading of Kryk's article, only, although his conclusions are not necessarily wrong or unfair.

 

Well, Florio remains, as always, an idiot. But just as a broken clock is right twice a day, I think he's completely on point here. This changes nothing. Realistically, we already knew that any buyer would give a song and dance about keeping the Bills in Buffalo (just like Clay Bennett did with Seattle). Even if a buyer was dead-set on moving, there's nowhere to move to right now: Neither LA nor Toronto has an NFL-ready stadium at this point.

 

I'll be pretty surprised if the Bills move before the out clause in 2020, regardless of who buys the team.

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

I'm curious, what role do you think "we" play in selecting a new owner?

That's a tricky one. A cynic would say very little an optimist would say a lot, I tend to think somewhere in the middle. We are all voters in NY state, so you can put pressure on politicians like Poloncarcz and Cuomo to roll up their sleeves and get a deal done on a new stadium with a prospective owner and importantly support an investment by the state and Erie country to do that. We are all paying fans of the NFL, you can put pressure on the NFL, I'd start with Goodell, some will say he doesn't have a vote, which is true, but he has a lot of influence on the owners, you can mobilize fans from other cities to do the same, we all know people in other cities and postmarks and statements supporting a team from Buffalo to Dan Snyder from a Redskins season ticket holder might mean something. I think the fan alliance is an interesting venture and one that is mobilizing to monetize the passion of fans into interest free loan. I think the hard part is getting a few hundred thousand fans to speak in one voice to each of the relevant parties. Fans are fragmented and disorganized and it takes effort to make this happen. Many would say it won't help and opt out, others won't take the time, so it's hard. However, if every NFL owner got a few thousand letters/emails etc. from their own season ticket holders imploring them to keep Bills in Buffalo, and if Cuomo/Polancarcz got thousands of emails/letters from fans supporting their efforts to financially motivate a new owner to keep team in WNY and if Goodell got several thousand emails/letters from fans across the country asking to keep the Bills in Buffalo, I think it would make a difference in terms of how the process moves forward. Not to mention influence on media, NFL sponsors etc. I know a lot of posters will poo poo this approach, and that's fine, we can sit back and hope the process takes care of our concerns, I choose to take action and I've already done all of the above and have gotten several friends/family to do same. Again, I'm a realist and know it won't be a deciding factor, but it certainly can't hurt to do this.

[CodeMonkey]

That's a tricky one. A cynic would say very little an optimist would say a lot, I tend to think somewhere in the middle. We are all voters in NY state, so you can put pressure on politicians like Poloncarcz and Cuomo to roll up their sleeves and get a deal done on a new stadium with a prospective owner and importantly support an investment by the state and Erie country to do that. We are all paying fans of the NFL, you can put pressure on the NFL, I'd start with Goodell, some will say he doesn't have a vote, which is true, but he has a lot of influence on the owners, you can mobilize fans from other cities to do the same, we all know people in other cities and postmarks and statements supporting a team from Buffalo to Dan Snyder from a Redskins season ticket holder might mean something. I think the fan alliance is an interesting venture and one that is mobilizing to monetize the passion of fans into interest free loan. I think the hard part is getting a few hundred thousand fans to speak in one voice to each of the relevant parties. Fans are fragmented and disorganized and it takes effort to make this happen. Many would say it won't help and opt out, others won't take the time, so it's hard. However, if every NFL owner got a few thousand letters/emails etc. from their own season ticket holders imploring them to keep Bills in Buffalo, and if Cuomo/Polancarcz got thousands of emails/letters from fans supporting their efforts to financially motivate a new owner to keep team in WNY and if Goodell got several thousand emails/letters from fans across the country asking to keep the Bills in Buffalo, I think it would make a difference in terms of how the process moves forward. Not to mention influence on media, NFL sponsors etc. I know a lot of posters will poo poo this approach, and that's fine, we can sit back and hope the process takes care of our concerns, I choose to take action and I've already done all of the above and have gotten several friends/family to do same. Again, I'm a realist and know it won't be a deciding factor, but it certainly can't hurt to do this.

I have my doubts as to how effective any of the things you mentioned would be. My thought is they are dealing with a billion dollar business and the new owners as well as the NFL will do what they feel is in the best interests or their business. Show me the money! But I agree with you in that there certainly is no harm in trying.

Edited April 29, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

I have my doubts as to how effecting any of the things you mentioned would be. My thought is they are dealing with a billion dollar business and the new owners as well as the NFL will do what they feel is in the best interests or their business. Show me the money! But I agree with you in that there certainly no harm in trying.

Depending on your personality type it can also be therapeutic, knowing you did something -- I for one, hate the perceived feeling of helplessness in this process, so for me, it has been helpful to know I took some action, no matter how inconsequential to the process, hell, I spent less time writing emails and letters to those guys than I do posting on this board !! I'm cool, if others aren't the types that get involved or want to get involved, that's why I said, it's hard to mobilize fans. Edited April 29, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN

[CodeMonkey]

It seems I know more about law than you do. All that language in the lease being pure bull ****? The Buffalo Bills signed the lease and agreed to the terms, so they have to abide by them. You are the only person saying that it would be easy for the new owner to break the lease, while every professional interviewed says otherwise.

 

Try signing a lease for an apartment and then decide you don't want to pay for it. Yes, there is a chance you could win your case, but 99/100 you will lose.

If any new ownership decides to break the lease, I'm sure the county would make it anything but easy or cheap for them to do so. If for no other reason than it would be political suicide for any county politician to roll over and play dead on this issue.

 

As to the bolded, this is a very good example. But say you are this person, you would certainly pay a penalty for breaking the lease. But after paying the penalty, where would you be living , in the original apartment or someplace else? That is, do you think the court would force you to stay in the original apartment?

Edited April 29, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[sodbuster]

As to the bolded, this is a very good example. But say you are this person, you would certainly pay a penalty for breaking the lease. But after paying the penalty, where would you be living , in the original apartment or someplace else? That is, do you think the court would force you to stay in the original apartment?

Is 400mil enough of a deterrent?

[Peter]

Say it with me folks: thank you Ralph!

 

Exactly. Thank you Ralph!

 

Also, I find it humorous that the most recent story was broken by Kryk from the Toronto Sun rather the outstanding sports reporters at the Buffalo News. I suppose those guys did not want to bother to read the lease and the accompanying documents and would rather continue to shoot from the hip.

[Pondslider]

thats what I was thinking as well...without the tailgating and atmosphere that the Bills stadium offers now, why would U.S. fans want to travel across a border to watch a game?...I can't see the fans from Rochester, Syracuse and farther east going to as many games in Toronto....I just don't see the team thriving in Canada even when the Canadians would rather see them in Buffalo for the better atmosphere

 

Toronto doesn't need any fans from Buffalo, Rochester, or Syracuse. If the team moved to Toronto they'd have no trouble selling out. I also doubt the league cares about about letting fans tailgate. They'd actually probably love to end it. More beer to be sold at concessions.

[CodeMonkey]

Is 400mil enough of a deterrent?

For me it sure would be, and you would think it would be a big deterrent to anyone. But it would be a biz decision as to how quickly they could make that up in a more lucrative market than Buffalo.

Only time will tell.

[Big Turk]

Wow..that is probably the coup de grace for anyone looking to buy and move the team. The Bills are "forbidden" from selling the team to someone who wants to relocate them...who controls the sale? The executor of the estate, Littman who is a loyal Bills employee and his Boss Brandon. It appears there is virtually zero chance the Bills move now...fantastic article and unbelievable a Toronto reporter has broken the two biggest stories regarding the lease...wtf are the Buffalo News reporters doing??

 

 

If any new ownership decides to break the lease, I'm sure the county would make it anything but easy or cheap for them to do so. If for no other reason than it would be political suicide for any county politician to roll over and play dead on this issue.

 

As to the bolded, this is a very good example. But say you are this person, you would certainly pay a penalty for breaking the lease. But after paying the penalty, where would you be living , in the original apartment or someplace else? That is, do you think the court would force you to stay in the original apartment?

 

They won't get a chance to break the lease because anyone planning to buy the team and move them doesn't have a chance of even getting a meeting to begin negotiations...this is like a Mike Tyson punch to the face for anyone wanting to buy and move the team who reads the lease, lol

Edited April 29, 2014 by matter2003

[metzelaars_lives]

I don't have the time to read through this whole thread but is that Kelly to Reed guy still insisting that none of this means anything and that if you have a good lawyer you can just break the lease no problem?

[Punch]

I don't have the time to read through this whole thread but is that Kelly to Reed guy still insisting that none of this means anything and that if you have a good lawyer you can just break the lease no problem?

 

Yes.

 

Ok then why are they working on a new stadium? They can't move into it according to you. BTW a great attorney or entire law firm if need be can break the entire thing. That said I think its Trump and he is going to keep them here

 

I am not being a dick but do you know anything about law? There is no such thing as Iron clad period. This lease is there just to scare away any weak minded owners who don't have enough cash or time or 'want to' to fight it. ANY lease can be broken period.

 

Look reality is two parts here, 1) the team isn't going anywhere. Too many want to keep it in Buffalo that would buy it like Trump. 2) all that language in the lease is pure bull ****. I will try to explain this one last time, a great attorney / Lawfirm can get this team moved in 2 years tops. Any owner with the money can move the team and not blink at potential 400 mill in punitive damages.

 

 

But as I said its all moot as worst case scenario Trump buys the Bills (best case IHMO) and they aren't going anywhere. I just wish to God this damn thing would sell all ready so the issue is put to rest and we can just talk football.

[metzelaars_lives]

Yes.

Yeah that looks about right. Thanks for the update.

[Big Turk]

 

 

Yes.

 

It does no good when all the team has to say is "Well, unfortunately by terms of the lease we cannot enter into any type of negotiations with you since we believe you are intent on relocating the team"

 

I mean what are they going to do? Sue the Bills because they refuse to sell to them??

 

Imagine this in Erie County Court

"Your honor we are suing the team because they won't talk to us"

 

"They have the right to talk to or not talk to anyone they choose to" Gavel slammed "Case Dismissed"

Edited April 29, 2014 by matter2003

[Hplarrm]

Is 400mil enough of a deterrent?

No guarantee as there are lots of entities in this society with lots of $ where an extra $400 million is doable.

 

However, the important thing for deterring a deal is not simply making the cost prohibitive, but making buying the Bills a worse option than other opportunities.

 

There appear to be other potential options for the Bon Jovis and other capital groups as they could guess Mr. Wilson would not live forever, but there was not enough certainty the Bills would be on the market to mean that there are not other choices.

 

Any group, is likely going to have to put together several minority partners who will "throw-in" their 10s of millions and uncertainty is an enemy of putting together that deal. Even if that new deal feels pretty sure they can beat Erie County in court, that they could convince the NFL to withstand years of bad marketing with pictures of WNY mourning the loss of the team, dueling with other bidders (the Jim Kelley group would likely have the NFLPA and other players weighing in for it), and other legal uncertainties, $400 million should be enough to make us a secondary (tertiary) target for buyers.

[Big Turk]

 

No guarantee as there are lots of entities in this society with lots of $ where an extra $400 million is doable.

 

However, the important thing for deterring a deal is not simply making the cost prohibitive, but making buying the Bills a worse option than other opportunities.

 

There appear to be other potential options for the Bon Jovis and other capital groups as they could guess Mr. Wilson would not live forever, but there was not enough certainty the Bills would be on the market to mean that there are not other choices.

 

Any group, is likely going to have to put together several minority partners who will "throw-in" their 10s of millions and uncertainty is an enemy of putting together that deal. Even if that new deal feels pretty sure they can beat Erie County in court, that they could convince the NFL to withstand years of bad marketing with pictures of WNY mourning the loss of the team, dueling with other bidders (the Jim Kelley group would likely have the NFLPA and other players weighing in for it), and other legal uncertainties, $400 million should be enough to make us a secondary (tertiary) target for buyers.

 

There is no legal basis for suing a party or parties refusing to sell a team to a group unless they claim protection under a "protected class". It's their team they can choose to sell or not sell to whoever they wish. As the lease is constructed, those parties wishing to relocate the Bills are excluded from consideration. The NFL will not try to set a dangerous precedent of breaking leases and the legal battle that would ensue. If they had wanted to, they would have rejected the lease before it could be signed. By not rejecting the terms, they silently accepted them without saying a word.

 

And good luck with suing the team in Erie County Court. You'd have a better chance of getting a conviction on a white defendant against a black man in 1850 Mississippi than a judge who might not make it alive out of the courtroom by ruling against the Bills

Edited April 29, 2014 by matter2003

[Kelly the Dog]

My reading of this kind of stuff is that it does have some teeth, and adds to the already solid prospects of the team staying.

 

The real issue to me is that a prospective owner with every intent to move the team after six years, but who, like Florio says, makes every public statement about keeping the team in Buffalo would, in all likelihood, be taken to court. Where anything could happen. So in effect, he wouldn't know for sure if he could do this, or when he could do this until after the court case, even if his own lawyers told him it would be an easy win. That alone, that "not" knowing if he could do what he wants, even if he says all the right things, could be deterrent enough.

 

I mean, his own best friends and colleagues could be asked to take the stand and say whether or not the guy had an intention of moving the team, and they would likely have to perjure themselves.

[CodeMonkey]

There is no legal basis for suing a party or parties refusing to sell a team to a group unless they claim protection under a "protected class". It's their team they can choose to sell or not sell to whoever they wish. As the lease is constructed, those parties wishing to relocate the Bills are excluded from consideration. The NFL will not try to set a dangerous precedent of breaking leases and the legal battle that would ensue. If they had wanted to, they would have rejected the lease before it could be signed. By not rejecting the terms, they silently accepted them without saying a word.

 

And good luck with suing the team in Erie County Court. You'd have a better chance of getting a conviction on a white defendant against a black man in 1850 Mississippi than a judge who might not make it alive out of the courtroom by ruling against the Bills

You are implying that the NFL had a say when the Bills entered into the current lease. Are you sure of this? If they did that speaks volumes as to the desire of not just Mr. Wilson, but the entire NFL to keep the Bills in Buffalo. But to the best of my knowledge, that agreement was just between the Bills and the county.

[Big Turk]

 

 

Well, Florio remains, as always, an idiot. But just as a broken clock is right twice a day, I think he's completely on point here. This changes nothing. Realistically, we already knew that any buyer would give a song and dance about keeping the Bills in Buffalo (just like Clay Bennett did with Seattle). Even if a buyer was dead-set on moving, there's nowhere to move to right now: Neither LA nor Toronto has an NFL-ready stadium at this point.

 

I'll be pretty surprised if the Bills move before the out clause in 2020, regardless of who buys the team.

 

Again, people aren't getting the point. It doesn't matter what the person says, if they will or won't move the team... anyone the Bills suspect will try and move the team is going to have that clause invoked on them, before even getting into negotiations, basically telling them with a all knowing and sly smile "Sorry, but we can't sell to you, buh bye"

 

 

 

You are implying that the NFL had a say when the Bills entered into the current lease. Are you sure of this? If they did that speaks volumes as to the desire of not just Mr. Wilson, but the entire NFL to keep the Bills in Buffalo. But to the best of my knowledge, that agreement was just between the Bills and the county.

 

The Bills cannot enter into a lease without NFL approval

[sodbuster]

 

You are implying that the NFL had a say when the Bills entered into the current lease. Are you sure of this? If they did that speaks volumes as to the desire of not just Mr. Wilson, but the entire NFL to keep the Bills in Buffalo. But to the best of my knowledge, that agreement was just between the Bills and the county.

They did have a say. King Rodger even referenced it when asked about the teams future soon after Ralph's passing.