The wisdom of the wall

[Bronc24]

I had WTF moments with Maybin, Whitner, the panic pick in Losman and the trade up and pick I may hate the most: McCargo.

 

However, those were previous regimes. I need to see more of EJ to be sold, but if we continue to build the offensive line and pick solid building blocks, we will be fine.

 

The problem with previous regimes is that I often thought they tried to be too cute and reached for need rather than picking the BPA.

 

I think our FO has done a nice job of late. They seem to be adding actual TALENT to the roster, at just about every position. What an interesting idea!

 

The only concern I have with the mentality of this scouting staff is their weighting towards big players at all times. I fear that they will, and have, missed out on some very good players because they aren't tall enough. "Big Wins" is something we keep hearing. I agree, that if you get a chance to take a player who is both big, AND good, you take them! But I hate the fact that we missed out on Russell Wilson, and I suspect they avoided him because of his height. I fear that they are also going to avoid Aaron Murray because of his height. I could be wrong, but I don't think Murray is on their radar and I think that's a mistake. If they avoid him because they don't think he can play, then that's fine. But if they avoid him because he isn't 2 inches taller, then that's concerning.

 

Overall, I really like the way they are drafting, and I like the overall culture that they are building. Just thought I'd get it on the record, one more time, that I REALLY want Aaron Murray here!

 

Go Bills.

 

While I agree with you 100% on your assessment of height, I respectfully disagree on Murray. I haven't seen the leadership I want from my QB. He doesn't seem to rally the troops when things go south. I admit my knowledge is limited and I don't see everything, but I just don't see the "it" factor from Murray.

[The Plunge]

I had WTF moments with Maybin, Whitner, the panic pick in Losman and the trade up and pick I may hate the most: McCargo.

 

However, those were previous regimes. I need to see more of EJ to be sold, but if we continue to build the offensive line and pick solid building blocks, we will be fine.

 

The problem with previous regimes is that I often thought they tried to be too cute and reached for need rather than picking the BPA.

 

 

 

While I agree with you 100% on your assessment of height, I respectfully disagree on Murray. I haven't seen the leadership I want from my QB. He doesn't seem to rally the troops when things go south. I admit my knowledge is limited and I don't see everything, but I just don't see the "it" factor from Murray.

 

It's funny how opinions can be so different. That's EXACTLY what I like about him! Every time I watch him play, I see Drew Brees. In my opinion, if he were 3 inches taller, he'd be the top QB taken, maybe even 1st overall pick. I find it shocking that 2-3 inches in height can affect a players draft status by 3-5 rounds. The game has evolved. It's more about quick thinking and decision making than it is about simply overpowering your opponent. Just my opinion.

[3rdand12]

I know it's not a concept that is terribly helpful in a discussion like this, but a draftee's talent isn't always enough to overcome a poor team, poor coaching, or just poor circumstances. Just because Haloti Ngata turned out to be All-Pro with the Ravens, or Russell Wilson lit the world on fire with the Seahawks, doesn't mean they would have been equally awesome on the Bills.

This is a fact . And another reason why a GM has such a challenging job.

I feel much better letting the Whaley boys handle the draft.

Take me back a couple years and i would have preffered we did it. Democratic style of course using a majority vote

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I think the board would be better.

 

That's mostly an indictment of our crappy GMs.

 

But I also think there's another reason. We are all long-time followers of the team, and so I think have a much better feel for the team's prior mistakes, and also our present needs. The new regimes that come in don't have that same history and understanding of the team. You don't get that from film.

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I wonder if, collectively, this board might do a better job drafting than the Bills front office, at least in picking first round players.

 

Oh god no.... This board both loves and loathes every player. I've never seen a concensus on any player. Who knows what the collective opinion of the board would be.

 

Before Mordak was removed, and I think it started with 2011s draft a magic 8 ball would have worked better.... Now these guys are drafting well. 2011 was decent, 2012 was solid and 2013 was awesome.

[Bronc24]

 

 

It's funny how opinions can be so different. That's EXACTLY what I like about him! Every time I watch him play, I see Drew Brees. In my opinion, if he were 3 inches taller, he'd be the top QB taken, maybe even 1st overall pick. I find it shocking that 2-3 inches in height can affect a players draft status by 3-5 rounds. The game has evolved. It's more about quick thinking and decision making than it is about simply overpowering your opponent. Just my opinion.

 

I respect that opinion.

 

And I guess that's the beauty of The Wall. Opinions are all across the spectrum as to what moves the Bills should or should not make. Sometimes we hit, sometimes we miss.

 

The fact there is a thread dedicated to this topic rightly suggests the Bills have missed a lot in the past 14 years. I, for one, like Whaley and hope he's the GM we have been waiting for.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Bronc24

[BobbyC81]

I agree. The Combine has become so big and too much attention height, weight, etc. They should care more about what they see live and on tape. Can the guy play?

 

There have been many examples of "look like Tarzan, play like Jane" and also players without "prototypical size for the position" that are stars.

[Bronc24]

I agree. The Combine has become so big and too much attention height, weight, etc. They should care more about what they see live and on tape. Can the guy play?

 

There have been many examples of "look like Tarzan, play like Jane" and also players without "prototypical size for the position" that are stars.

 

Amen. Pick winners who have shown they can rise to the occasion week in and week out against solid competition.

[CSBill]

Amen. Pick winners who have shown they can rise to the occasion week in and week out against solid competition.

 

this is huge, pick winners, on and off the field !!!!

[KOKBILLS]

I wonder if, collectively, this board might do a better job drafting than the Bills front office, at least in picking first round players. I'm thinking of especially the slam-dunk picks (to this forum) that the Bills brain trust passed over to get cute, picking Whitner instead of Ngata, for instance, Maybin instead of Orakpo, T.J. Graham instead of Russell Wilson. It wasn't just in hindsight that the Wall got it right but in real time, or so I recall from the cries of anguish here.

 

But think also of the times when the consensus here seemed to be trading down (yes, I know, you need partners) when the Bills picked a "wtf?" player instead of trading down for better value: McKelvin, for instance, and Losman. We don't always have consensus, of course, but often we do agree the choice comes down to a handful of players. For example, this year it looks like Ebron, Evans or Matthews, provided one of the top-five players doesn't fall to us. It's certainly NOT Ha-Ha Dix.

 

Anyway, I wanted to get a sense of the board: have we collectively--not individually, either way--done a better job identifying the best picks over the years than the Bills front office? Or does it just seem that way?

 

I find that...generally...when you post about the board instead of posting about the Bills specifically...you veer down a dangerous path of no return...

[YoloinOhio]

If someone paid me handsomely to pick football players then I would be a professional. Obviously not every anonymous board poster is going to be good but lets not pretend it is rocket science or that our "professionals" have done anything that a lot of die-hard fans with laptops couldn't have done.

According to Bill Polian, unless you work for an NFL team you don't have about 40% of the info that is available on the players. I am not sure where to begin here. Other than, you are right - it is not rocket science, because it isn't a science at all when you are dealing with NFL prospects. These guys work 100s of hours/week, all year long, to try to get their draft picks right and sometimes it still doesn't work out. The hardest thing is trying to project what a guy is going to do at the next level in a system he has never played in, with teammates he has never played with, being asked to do things he may have never been asked to do in college. My brother has worked in an NFL front office for 17 years. Fans will never understand the detail that goes into it. Also - don't forget the coaches have a lot of input on most teams. Not all on the scouts, or GM. GM has the final call, but lots of power struggles that go on. The 1st round may sometimes be an "easy" call - but the scouts are paid for what happens in the later rounds and then the few days after with UDFA signings.

[3rdand12]

Amen. Pick winners who have shown they can rise to the occasion week in and week out against solid competition.

Did you happen to read the article by Chris Brown reporting about how Buffalo Bills scouted Kiko Alonso ?

It should be required reading for all us fans and a sticky ( ?) .

This story on it's own merit ( C B yea i know ) tells a fine tale about the new Brandon Whaley regime if you peer closely .

I think these guys are more on the ball than we are used to.

[dayman]

Did you happen to read the article by Chris Brown reporting about how Buffalo Bills scouted Kiko Alonso ?

It should be required reading for all us fans and a sticky ( ?) .

This story on it's own merit ( C B yea i know ) tells a fine tale about the new Brandon Whaley regime if you peer closely .

I think these guys are more on the ball than we are used to.

 

Where we are as a franchise he needs to get QB right. That is basically all I will grade any of our GMs based on at this point.

[Bronc24]

Did you happen to read the article by Chris Brown reporting about how Buffalo Bills scouted Kiko Alonso ?

It should be required reading for all us fans and a sticky ( ?) .

This story on it's own merit ( C B yea i know ) tells a fine tale about the new Brandon Whaley regime if you peer closely .

I think these guys are more on the ball than we are used to.

 

Link? I'd love to read it.

 

[boyst]

I think I could have gotten a few of the choices right, or but not some of these that they did. I might not have gone with Cordy Glenn. But, I'd have drafted Aaron Hernandez. Or I might not have drafted SJ13 but I would have drafted Lance Moore. I wouldn't have drafted any of the QB's we got but when Ben Roethlisberger slipped, I would have got him right away, if I had not got him earlier.

 

I see a few things that most people do not but I am not one who would claim to know any better then a professional football dude.

[boyst]

Link? I'd love to read it.

 

I found these

 

One the Clock - Kiko's story

I can't find the first installment.

 

 

What Kiko was doing on Draft Day

which has this gem:

“I honestly didn’t think I would go first round just from what people were telling me, like scouts and stuff,” said Alonso. “But I did figure based on what people were telling me that I would go day two. So I thought I had a good shot to go second round and it was an honor to go that high.

“I just remember I was excited just to get picked. After it sunk in that it was the Bills I was like, ‘Okay Buffalo.’ But I didn’t even know where the hell that was. It was just pure excitement.”

[Bronc24]

 

 

I found these

 

One the Clock - Kiko's story

I can't find the first installment.

 

 

What Kiko was doing on Draft Day

which has this gem:

 

I found it. Great read.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/ON-THE-CLOCK-Kikos-story---drafting-a-rookie-of-the-year/649f6e87-c0df-47ab-8809-aea37aa86909

 

[Garion]

 

 

Amen. Pick winners who have shown they can rise to the occasion week in and week out against solid competition.

 

Do you remember the Tebow thread on this board? It's not that simple.

[3rdand12]

Link? I'd love to read it.

It was a Chris Brown article up on BB.com

sorry no link

But you would get a kick out of it

 

OOPS

Thanks J !!

 

Do you remember the Tebow thread on this board? It's not that simple.

Obviously .

[Dorkington]

I think our FO has done a nice job of late. They seem to be adding actual TALENT to the roster, at just about every position. What an interesting idea!

 

The only concern I have with the mentality of this scouting staff is their weighting towards big players at all times. I fear that they will, and have, missed out on some very good players because they aren't tall enough. "Big Wins" is something we keep hearing. I agree, that if you get a chance to take a player who is both big, AND good, you take them! But I hate the fact that we missed out on Russell Wilson, and I suspect they avoided him because of his height. I fear that they are also going to avoid Aaron Murray because of his height. I could be wrong, but I don't think Murray is on their radar and I think that's a mistake. If they avoid him because they don't think he can play, then that's fine. But if they avoid him because he isn't 2 inches taller, then that's concerning.

 

Overall, I really like the way they are drafting, and I like the overall culture that they are building. Just thought I'd get it on the record, one more time, that I REALLY want Aaron Murray here!

 

Go Bills.

 

On paper, we sure look like a better team.

 

But how come we still finish at about 6-10?