thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 it's not like we ever saw any great accurate throws. More in the dirt, or out of bounds than threading any needles. With most guys that were taken early, and succed you see streches of good play. With EJ, it was an occasional drive, after a few three and outs, followed by a couple more three and outs. I'm not sure we were watching the same team...you'll never catch me saying that the kid lit the world on fire, but the bold statement is a gross mis-characterization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGNESS Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Very much off the EJ bandwagon. EJ is just not very good at the thing that's most important in a QB -- Accuracy. He just doesn't have it, and I don't believe that you develop it in the league. You either have it or don't by now. Someone earlier mentioned looking at the All-22 and seeing all the plays left out on the field. He just can't throw with any consistency and it's hard for me to understand how anyone can have faith in a QB that can't throw consistently. I wouldnt call it faith, I would call it patience. Having watched pro football for over forty years Ive seen many QB's improve dramatically from year one to year two. Ive also seen many stay the same and many get worse. Andrew Lucks completion percentage jumped 6.1 percent from year one to year two. Major improvement. Not saying EJ is a five time pro bowler or that hes Andrew Luck. Point is many young QB's struggle in their first year. Everybody seems to want to ignore that little fact but its the truth. Yes you can find examples of young QBs having great first years but those are not the rule, they are the exception. I think many who arent ready to throw EJ under the bus just yet also arent ready to declare him the next Joe Montana. I give him this year. If he doesnt progress dramatically(like say a 6.1 percent improvement in accuracy) then its time to draft another QB high (which again will guarantee us nothing other than going through this all over again). Your all 22 point is interesting but im going to make some counter points. Leaving plays on the field happens to all QB's. Even Brady. Even Rodgers. Even Montana.(greatest ever IMO. Joe Cool). First year qb's need to learn to read defenses at this level and they usually need two or even three seasons to develop real chemistry with teammates. A receivers route is often dictated by the defense. If the QB and receiver dont see the same thing the play breaks down. Last year two of our receivers where rookies. They where just as much in the dark as EJ was. Same for our offensive coordinator(who I think did a pretty good job given what he had to work with and how little time hes had so far to work with it so far). Going back to the JK days that offense was pretty abysmal his first 4 years. It wasnt till Andre and thurman got some experience and we added lofton that the K-Gun became the the K-Gun. 4 years. Quite frankly i think teams are too impatient these days with developing qb's. Defenses are more complex than ever and usually teams that are drafting high enough to get a shot at a marquee qb usually dont have alot of talent to support him. Thats why I have some patience. I can see the physical gifts EJ has. More importantly he has the work ethic. Ive heard numerous comments about his work ethic from teammates(past and present)and coaches(past and present). EJ has the reputation for being the first guy to arrive for the work day and the last guy to leave. Which is what is really expected of all the top QBs in the league. Get him some more talent. Give him time to learn. Give him time to work on his accuracy(it can improve, see Andrew luck). If the light bulb goes totally on we may have something special. As Ive said before, ten games isnt enough to fully evaluate a young QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGNESS Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) they took the #3 ranked player,(#2 QB) and still felt the need to draft another QB. We got EJ. You're argument actually supports my view, IMHO. it's not like we ever saw any great accurate throws. More in the dirt, or out of bounds than threading any needles. With most guys that were taken early, and succed you see streches of good play. With EJ, it was an occasional drive, after a few three and outs, followed by a couple more three and outs. No actually my argument doesnt support your view at all. In the least. Not even remotely. Using the Redskins as an example of doing anything right is like trying to point to something Charles Manson says or does as being right. Last pro sports franchise on the planet I would be using to back up an argument. Edited April 15, 2014 by DOGNESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I believe in EJ. I think he had a crappy 1st year as a rookie with his injuries. I'm looking forward to seeing him make forward strides this coming season. It will only be his 2nd year in the NFL so we have to be patient with him. Yes, I think he can be the guy in Buffalo in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I think some mechanics can help accuracy in EJs case. But i dont blame you for not having faith. The kid has a good ways to go in a number of aspects. I recall the first touchdown he threw. I think he probably did the Fitzy scream. He wants to win very badly. Its on the coaches now to get him sorted and give him the surronding cast. And this year i believe they are " all in " . So we shall see... It looks as though just about everyone agrees on one thing at least, - EJ's lower body mechanics are flawed with resulting inaccuracy in his throws. So fans who support EJ say that him tidying up his mechanics should solve the problem, which is a reasonable conclusion. But really the question is "can he cleanup the technical flaws in his game". Does an intelligent, athletically gifted EJ have the physical ability to properly set up, transfer his weight into the throwing motion etc...? Unquestionably he does, and I'm sure that in shorts with his QB coach by his side he executes the proper mechanics perfectly. But come game time can he do it when the bullets are flying? In other words, are his poor mechanics simply a correctable flaw or the result of a more basic problem, namely inadequate instincts, vision, ability to quickly read and react, anticipate the course of live action, etc... If that is the problem, and the difference in recognition and between success and failure is measured in a second or a fraction thereof, then that is not going to get better, or good enuf, to enable him to succeed at this level of play. Given the rather obvious issue, the fact that he is smart enuf and talented enuf to execute the right mechanics and given also that he has been the recipient of good coaching for as long as he has played the game, the presumption should be that he can't do it, or can't do it consistently enuf. But I agree that the best way to find out is to turn him loose with the benefit of a full off season, an improved O-line and additional weapons in the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 It looks as though just about everyone agrees on one thing at least, - EJ's lower body mechanics are flawed with resulting inaccuracy in his throws. So fans who support EJ say that him tidying up his mechanics should solve the problem, which is a reasonable conclusion. But really the question is "can he cleanup the technical flaws in his game". Does an intelligent, athletically gifted EJ have the physical ability to properly set up, transfer his weight into the throwing motion etc...? Unquestionably he does, and I'm sure that in shorts with his QB coach by his side he executes the proper mechanics perfectly. But come game time can he do it when the bullets are flying? In other words, are his poor mechanics simply a correctable flaw or the result of a more basic problem, namely inadequate instincts, vision, ability to quickly read and react, anticipate the course of live action, etc... If that is the problem, and the difference in recognition and between success and failure is measured in a second or a fraction thereof, then that is not going to get better, or good enuf, to enable him to succeed at this level of play. Given the rather obvious issue, the fact that he is smart enuf and talented enuf to execute the right mechanics and given also that he has been the recipient of good coaching for as long as he has played the game, the presumption should be that he can't do it, or can't do it consistently enuf. But I agree that the best way to find out is to turn him loose with the benefit of a full off season, an improved O-line and additional weapons in the passing game. That's the only part of your post I disagree with...good work otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well worth reading, especially vis a vis the Bills' commitment to Manuel: http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/15/mike-holmgren-nfl-draft-quarterback-advice/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well worth reading, especially vis a vis the Bills' commitment to Manuel: http://mmqb.si.com/2...terback-advice/ Thanks for the link...I have to think that Marrone is following that idea of standing behind your QB, for better or worse. That said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to nab a backup plan in rounds 4-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well worth reading, especially vis a vis the Bills' commitment to Manuel: http://mmqb.si.com/2...terback-advice/ Words of wisdom from Mike Holmgren. I just where that wisdom was when the Browns drafted a 28 year old QB in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Right now, I'd put my faith in him at about 15%. I like his attitude and demeanor off the field, but I haven't seen much between the lines to make me believe he'll turn into a good NFL quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well here he is, looks like he's at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well here he is, looks like he's at work. Working on his footwork? The nerve of that kid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well here he is, looks like he's at work. http://instagram.com/p/m0OpGnqDPI/ Not surprising at all...he really does want to be good. I hope that the video is an indicator that he's recognized/been told that footwork and lower-body mechanics are his biggest flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well here he is, looks like he's at work. http://instagram.com/p/m0OpGnqDPI/ He touched the cones and pads like 4 times. 2/10, good try, good effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 He touched the cones and pads like 4 times. 2/10, good try, good effort. I think you've misjudged the point of the drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) I see such a mixed result in views of our #1 pick from last year that I am curious as to who actually believes in him and why or why not. IMHO I believe in the kid. He seems to have the right attitude and work ethic. Minus a couple "learning curve" injuries I think EJ is our man. He has all the tools and Buffalo seems poised to put weapons around him and I think he can get it done. Am I in the minority or majority here? Win 10 Games. Look like you belong in the NFL. Don't get injured! That's what it takes for my support! I say draft Johnny Football @ 9 if he's there. It will make Manuel work harder and Johnny will compete hard. If they both end up looking like NFL QBs, the Bills could make a heck of a trade! Edited April 15, 2014 by mattsox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 He touched the cones and pads like 4 times. 2/10, good try, good effort. So what's the story here ? Are you gonna go full anti EJ just like you did with Spiller ? I disagree with your takes 93% of the time. I enjoy your consistency though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranimal Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 RG III stinks. Best college football QB in history is likely Tim Tebow. I think that settles it. College success means nothing about future NFL success. So i should take that to mean that Jamies Winston will suck in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I think you've misjudged the point of the drill. Obviously..... If Im not mistaken that drill is used to get him to open up his stance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 So what's the story here ? Are you gonna go full anti EJ just like you did with Spiller ? I disagree with your takes 93% of the time. I enjoy your consistency though. It was a joke. I think you've misjudged the point of the drill. Same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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