Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 John, I'm not sure why you're twisting my words. Anything's possible when it comes to New York State politics, but IMO a 10% likelihood is pretty slim, not something on the "horizon." Sort of like the Sabres making the playoffs next year (might happen, but nah...no it won't). So Duffy say "Niagara Falls" and we're supposed to think he's doing anything more than being courteous to Paul Dyster--who's a good guy by Niagara Falls mayoral standards and a team player in the regional planning environment that Cuomo's pushing across the state. Not much of a commitment, more like an off hand comment from a guy who's got one foot out the door on his way back to Flower City to run the Rochester Business Alliance. As I said in a previous post, I don't think the transportation infrastructure to and from downtown Niagara Falls is anywhere near capable of handling a game day scenario. The Robert Moses is a parkway, not a high volume highway. It would take years of planning to build a new highway (take the Route 219 extension as an example), and involve significant money from Washington--where the appetite to send dollars to a Democratic state led by a potential 2016 or 2020 presidential candidate would be next to nil. Connecting the dots from the Thruway Authority to Milstein is a stretch in my opinion, since that's just a figurehead office. He has no power to commit multiple millions of dollars to a new highway that's not currently part of the Thruway system anymore than you or I do. Lastly, even if the idea of a Niagara Falls location somehow managed to get a little traction, the backlash from the Erie County political establishment would be enormous and Cuomo would never want to get on the wrong side of that...the "Buffalo Billion" is all about winning Erie County, which Andrew's fixated on a whole lot more than it's little neighbor to the north. I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change mine. Let's just let this discussion go and save SDS some server space... Good points. I suggested similar to what I bolded above. It raised the indignation of the 4th estate. here's the thing, we were going to report the Niagara Falls angle with or without Duffy and with or without Dyster. their comments did not prompt the story. jw The article entitled "Niagara Falls possible home for Bills" appears days after Duffy's comments about NF and leads with his comments about NF , but....it was not prompted by his comments. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Good points. I suggested similar to what I bolded above. It raised the indignation of the 4th estate. The article entitled "Niagara Falls possible home for Bills" appears days after Duffy's comments about NF and leads with his comments about NF , but....it was not prompted by his comments. Got it. funny, given i had the byline. you really are obtuse. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 funny, given i had the byline. you really are obtuse. jw No jw. Just incredulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Loud noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) I know you like to be intentionally obtuse to stimulate an argument, but it doesn't fly with me. The OP story was not to discuss the merits of putting the stadium in Niagara Falls, it was about the state recommending other sites for consideration, because the state obviously wants joint use facilities if it is going to throw in development funds. Now you can continue with your circle fest on why Niagara Falls NY hasn't lived up to its promise, but that doesn't lessen the fact that NF is the second most popular tourist destination in the state, yet most of the tourism dollars go to the Canadian side. It doesn't take a genius to understand that it's in the state's best interest to figure out a way to even out the dollar flow. Just throwing this out there, Gerry -- the reason why the Canadian side gets so much more traffic is because, well, the view of the Falls from that side is at least ten times better. If you're a tourist going to NF, you're probably going because of the Falls. The Canadian side is far superior in terms of the view, and it has the cave of the winds. That's never going to change, and that's why the Canadian side will always be the preferred destination of a tourist with half a brain (although there is a benefit flowing from the lower traffic on the US side -- shorter waits in the Maid of the Mist line). You're right. I gave this place up a long wile back, but Ralph's passing seems to have sucked me back into TSW's gravitational pull. Better hit the afterburners and scram back out of here... You're a good poster! Don't go back to lurking! No jw. Just incredulous. Why wouldn't you trust JW? That's bad faith. Edited April 16, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Just throwing this out there, Gerry -- the reason why the Canadian side gets so much more traffic is because, well, the view of the Falls from that side is at least ten times better. If you're a tourist going to NF, you're probably going because of the Falls. The Canadian side is far superior in terms of the view, and it has the cave of the winds. That's never going to change, and that's why the Canadian side will always be the preferred destination of a tourist with half a brain (although there is a benefit flowing from the lower traffic on the US side -- shorter waits in the Maid of the Mist line). You're a good poster! Don't go back to lurking! Why wouldn't you trust JW? That's bad faith. It's not a matter of trust.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 It's not a matter of trust.... If it was ... you could very well be Billy Joel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 It's not a matter of trust.... It's hard to read what you wrote and interpret any other way. Just sayin' ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 If it was ... you could very well be Billy Joel. Damn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) It's not a matter of trust.... i'll finish the answer for you. it's quite clear that you're incapable of comprehending that someone might have more answers on certain topics than you, which you find to be incredulous. how could it be that someone actually learned something before you did? impossible as that may sound, it happens, bubba. to suggest that you know what i know is the height of ego, because i might not know much except for the fact that you're incapable of reason on this issue and you continue to prove it with each post you make. to suggest that i didn't learn something that i didn't learn is the height of blather. let's make a deal, then: prove to me that you know what i know. read my mind (ok, beyond that middle finger). no, it's not a trick question, it's the corner you've essentially painted yourself into by calling me out and by not only suggesting i reveal what i know, but the preposterous notion that the story i wrote was inspired by one comment. and it's quite evident that you've pegged your entire argument from the beginning based on the belief it was a result of Duffy's statement, to which i say, and i quote: OOOOPS. but please, enlighten us with your brimless wealth of knowledge, karnac. jw ADD: and please, enjoy the attention that you're bringing upon yourself by going up against "the reporter," because unless you fail to work yourself out of this little picadillo of unwarranted accusations without an apology and retraction, i'm blocking you and calling you out as a charlatan (though, the latter has become quite evident). so i'd suggest you cut your losses. ADDII: please don't find it odd, too, that i'd stake my reputation on this. Edited April 16, 2014 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 i'll finish the answer for you. it's quite clear that you're incapable of comprehending that someone might have more answers on certain topics than you, which you find to be incredulous. how could it be that someone actually learned something before you did? impossible as that may sound, it happens, bubba. to suggest that you know what i know is the height of ego, because i might not know much except for the fact that you're incapable of reason on this issue and you continue to prove it with each post you make. to suggest that i didn't learn something that i didn't learn is the height of blather. let's make a deal, then: prove to me that you know what i know. read my mind (ok, beyond that middle finger). no, it's not a trick question, it's the corner you've essentially painted yourself into by calling me out and by not only suggesting i reveal what i know, but the preposterous notion that the story i wrote was inspired by one comment. and it's quite evident that you've pegged your entire argument from the beginning based on the belief it was a result of Duffy's statement, to which i say, and i quote: OOOOPS. but please, enlighten us with your brimless wealth of knowledge, karnac. jw ADD: and please, enjoy the attention that you're bringing upon yourself by going up against "the reporter," because unless you fail to work yourself out of this little picadillo of unwarranted accusations without an apology and retraction, i'm blocking you and calling you out as a charlatan (though, the latter has become quite evident). so i'd suggest you cut your losses. ADDII: please don't find it odd, too, that i'd stake my reputation on this. This is getting too...bizarre. I will let your last post stand as it is. Peace, jw.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Just throwing this out there, Gerry -- the reason why the Canadian side gets so much more traffic is because, well, the view of the Falls from that side is at least ten times better. If you're a tourist going to NF, you're probably going because of the Falls. The Canadian side is far superior in terms of the view, and it has the cave of the winds. That's never going to change, and that's why the Canadian side will always be the preferred destination of a tourist with half a brain (although there is a benefit flowing from the lower traffic on the US side -- shorter waits in the Maid of the Mist line). The advantage of the Canadian view is undeniable. But the traffic flow still favors the US side and the goal should be capturing more of that traffic flow. Like the classic Chevy Chase Vacation scene at the Grand Canyon - Yup, wow, that's nice. People probably spend 30 minutes max viewing the falls, and the rest of the day on other activities. The Canadian businesses have done a much better job of creating a carnival atmosphere around the falls that keeps people around after the view. The US side has obviously failed miserably in that regard (and for a broader discussion on that, the topic should move to PPP) PS - Cave of the Winds is on the US side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 This is getting too...bizarre. I will let your last post stand as it is. Peace, jw.. That was a class act. Seriously. GO BILLS!!! The advantage of the Canadian view is undeniable. But the traffic flow still favors the US side and the goal should be capturing more of that traffic flow. Like the classic Chevy Chase Vacation scene at the Grand Canyon - Yup, wow, that's nice. People probably spend 30 minutes max viewing the falls, and the rest of the day on other activities. The Canadian businesses have done a much better job of creating a carnival atmosphere around the falls that keeps people around after the view. The US side has obviously failed miserably in that regard (and for a broader discussion on that, the topic should move to PPP) PS - Cave of the Winds is on the US side Where would we fit the world's LARGEST ball of yarn? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Just as a quick side note after browsing through this thread... 1. I'm not sure why everyone thinks viewing is so much better on the Canadian side. The US side is definitely a hole in every other possible way but I think the view is very debatable. You can get right next to the american and horseshoe falls on the US side and there are a lot of different views available on goat island that make for great photos. I'd take the US side just for viewing over Canada every time. 2. Where does all of this Niagara Falls being one of the 7 wonders talk originate from? I definitely remember always hearing that as a kid growing up in the Buffalo area but after doing some googling yesterday I can't find any 7 Wonders list with Niagara Falls on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 PS - Cave of the Winds is on the US side You are right. It has been a LONG time for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 The advantage of the Canadian view is undeniable. But the traffic flow still favors the US side and the goal should be capturing more of that traffic flow. Like the classic Chevy Chase Vacation scene at the Grand Canyon - Yup, wow, that's nice. People probably spend 30 minutes max viewing the falls, and the rest of the day on other activities. The Canadian businesses have done a much better job of creating a carnival atmosphere around the falls that keeps people around after the view. The US side has obviously failed miserably in that regard (and for a broader discussion on that, the topic should move to PPP) PS - Cave of the Winds is on the US side I wonder why the Cave of the Winds is not more hyped up when talking about the Falls. Used to go on these fields trip while I was a kid in Summer Camp, I remember finding it and it was pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I wonder why the Cave of the Winds is not more hyped up when talking about the Falls. Used to go on these fields trip while I was a kid in Summer Camp, I remember finding it and it was pretty cool. Yeah, it's actually very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Cave of the Winds rocks. In defense of an earlier poster, though, the Canadian side does have Table Rock, which you access through a cave, so he may have been thinking of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 It's impossible to write a story that Niagara Falls is a possible location for the stadium and not launch into the debate on whether it makes sense or not and what is the real probability of it happening or not. I just as soon see a more investigative piece on the actual sale process and roles and responsibilities of each constituent in that process than more of the same speculation that has been on these boards for months, if not years. As for my thoughts on NF; I was born and raised there and it will always have a special place in my heart, but putting a stadium in that city would be a BIG mistake for Niagara Falls AND Buffalo. If the state wants to help WNY, invest money for a stadium and associated infrastructure in or very near to downtown Buffalo. The recent revitalization of downtown Buffalo creates the right backdrop to add a stadium and the associated infrastructure including additional restaurants, hotels and shopping similar to what other cities are doing or planning to do around their football stadiums. Downtown Buffalo is where the stadium belongs. As for Niagara Falls, it needs help. Plopping a stadium down and having to build supporting infrastructure will not help what ails that city. NF needs investment from the state to create tourist related industries that are viable 365 days a year. They don't need more highways to support 20-30 events per year, the highways they have now are empty, and bigger highways would be even more empty except on event days. A combination of public and private investment in tourist related enterprises akin to what NF, Canada has done will do more to improve that city than any stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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