patfitz Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) i read a disturbing article in the Buffalo News, suggesting a comprimse scenario, that it would be a good idea to build a mohill instead of a mountain, to renvovate RWS and save a penny on the dollar, and I believe that it is precisely the same line of thinking that resulted in the Buffalo Braves leaving Buffalo and next likely the Bills. Fine have your Bisons and Bandits folks. If you want to be a second or third rate sports city then have at it. You must realize that there is no comprimise scenario, it is all in or nothing. This is the NFL people, it is a brand new stadium and luxury tax, seat licenses the whole works, everybody has to kick in and there is no in between. It means tax subsidies and better sell your soul for the NFL. Buffalo has been given a pass as long as Ralph is alive not a day after. If you don't want to play in the big leagues that is fine, there are many other places willing to forfiet their short termy and gamble their future just for a chance to play in the big league. It is now or never. What would you the tax payer rather have the Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra, Hiistorical Museum, some park nobody ever heard of, or another land grant freebie, or an NFL team? We do have a choice. Make your voice heard, it is now or never! Edited February 16, 2014 by patfitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I don't recall that the reason for the Braves leaving Buffalo was the facilities at the Aud... You may need to read up on your sports facts. Also , a lot of people would rather have the BPO here . It is a quality org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Curious what would happen if they ever decided to build new stadium where the existing Ralph is. What if they took a year and played in Toronto how fans would feel about it. Would people freak out and believe they would never see the Bills again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) Pat, you must be a youngin' because the Aud had nothing to do with the Braves leaving town. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Braves By the summer of 1976, the team's founding owner Paul Snyder was doing all he could to sell the team. The June 15, 1976 issue of Buffalo's Courier-Express blasted the headline "Braves Go to Florida, Leaving 'Hockey Town'." PTR Curious what would happen if they ever decided to build new stadium where the existing Ralph is. What if they took a year and played in Toronto how fans would feel about it. Would people freak out and believe they would never see the Bills again. Why not play arty UB stadium or the Carrier Dome? Edited February 16, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) If they are serious about an all or nothing new stadium then it should be on the water front. Edited February 16, 2014 by BuffaloFan68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 The Boston Red Sox, Green Bay Packers, Chicago Bears, Kansas City Chiefs all disagree with your statement. There would be nothing wrong with keeping the Ralph and upgrading it even more. There's plenty of space to build onto the existing structure. Hell, they are doing that this season. Maybe we should all wait until we see how the changes this year look before we make the decisions. A stadium is a stadium. As long as it's structurally sound, why bother with it? I'll give you a downtown stadium would be key to revitalizing downtown, but it's not exactly an easy fix. Your not only talking about building a new stadium, your talking about mass transit in and out of the stadium, not just our one way in "subway" from "almost downtown to downtown". It will cost a ton of money to do this. Something that many fans aren't willing to buck up in taxes or PSLs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFITZ1 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think what the OP is alluding to is that if Erie County and/or NYS does not build a modern NFL stadium, someone else will, and that will be the lure for the Bills to move once the current lease expires. Unlike WMS, which was inadequate for the 1970 and beyond NFL, RWS is or can be made adequate for the NFL of the near future. Problem is, adequate may not be enough when exquisite (aka Jerry Jones' Stadium) is possible in places like LA. Therefore, a new stadium is dictated more by competitive need than providing required needs of an NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBackersChicago Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think what the OP is alluding to is that if Erie County and/or NYS does not build a modern NFL stadium, someone else will, and that will be the lure for the Bills to move once the current lease expires. Unlike WMS, which was inadequate for the 1970 and beyond NFL, RWS is or can be made adequate for the NFL of the near future. Problem is, adequate may not be enough when exquisite (aka Jerry Jones' Stadium) is possible in places like LA. Therefore, a new stadium is dictated more by competitive need than providing required needs of an NFL team. God its nice to hear an intelligent thought from time to time. agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Pat, you must be a youngin' because the Aud had nothing to do with the Braves leaving town. http://en.m.wikipedi.../Buffalo_Braves PTR Why not play arty UB stadium or the Carrier Dome? I never heard it at the time, but I've read that the Braves really wanted Saturday nights. Apparently, the Sabres controlled everything and wouldn't give it to them...............But, for one, I don't think they should have anyway. That was always college basketball's night. And, two, they had Friday nights. That's just about as good as Saturday nights, and it's better than what the Sabres had most of the time - Thursday and Sunday nights. I think it might be revisionist from Snyder, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryfan62 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I never heard it at the time, but I've read that the Braves really wanted Saturday nights. Apparently, the Sabres controlled everything and wouldn't give it to them...............But, for one, I don't think they should have anyway. That was always college basketball's night. And, two, they had Friday nights. That's just about as good as Saturday nights, and it's better than what the Sabres had most of the time - Thursday and Sunday nights. I think it might be revisionist from Snyder, etc. OT I know but I am just curious, were those Braves games not well attended by fans? Is that why the owner "was doing all he could to sell the team."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 the way i remember it, the attendance problems started after the idiotic mcadoo trade. it was like they were trying to sabotage the team to give them an excuse to sell. that was a nice team for a couple of years before that trade. a lot of fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 the way i remember it, the attendance problems started after the idiotic mcadoo trade. it was like they were trying to sabotage the team to give them an excuse to sell. that was a nice team for a couple of years before that trade. a lot of fun to watch. My family had season tickets and although I was very young I still remember those games. It was just so big, but then again, I was just so small then. I was too young to really know what happened as far as why they left, but over the years in reading the history about it, including jester's point above, makes me sick just to think about it. For those of you who weren't around the Braves were getting to be so good and then they just started to be gutted for any number of reasons that as a fan I'll never truly understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 OT I know but I am just curious, were those Braves games not well attended by fans? Is that why the owner "was doing all he could to sell the team."? I was much more of a basketball fan than hockey and still am.........I was 8 when both the Braves and Sabres started and attended tons of games for both. I would always argue for the Braves with my friends, who tended to be more Sabres fans. But, when we'd be at the game, and the Aud would be half full, it never compared to the Sabres, which were so solidly sold out it was ridiculous.............They would release tickets six games ahead and people would stand in line for hours to get I think Orange level seats. And, there weren't many they'd put up for sale. There were some barnburners vs. the Celtics both in playoffs and in the regular season. You would always know it was a huge Braves game if they put seats on the floor behind the baskets. Then you know it was more fans than at a Sabres game. But, it didn't happen often enough. And, then once Snyder decided to sell off his assets (McAdoo being the #1 asset), it was all over.............A freind of mine my freshman year in high school had season tickets, so I did go to a number of games that last year and it was depressing. The team stunk, everybody knew they had one foot out the door, etc. Nobody cared about the NBA around the country. But, if they had just been able to weather 2-3 more years, all of a sudden the NBA became very cool again, with Bird, Magic and Dr. J. No telling what would have happened to the Braves then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 the way i remember it, the attendance problems started after the idiotic mcadoo trade. it was like they were trying to sabotage the team to give them an excuse to sell. that was a nice team for a couple of years before that trade. a lot of fun to watch. Actually it was indeed a sabotage. IIRC there was a provision in the Braves' lease of War Memorial Auditorium that if the season ticket sales dropped below a certain amount (5,000 I believe) then the team could get out of the lease. As others have mentioned, the team was really good in the 1974/75 and 1975/76 seasons. With McAdoo a pending free agent, he was traded to the NY Knicks midway thru the 1976/77 season for a stiff, John Gianelli, and cash. The Braves became a losing team, attendance (including season tickets) dropped and they were able to get out of their lease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 There definitely was a provision. I just don't remember what the exact number was. I think it was actual attendance - not season tickets..............That GM or whatever he was named Norm would always be on the news talking about that provision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 OP or anyone else, please explain why shinier is better in the Buffalo market. Educate me. Where does RWS come up short, specifically for a new owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) OP or anyone else, please explain why shinier is better in the Buffalo market. Educate me. Where does RWS come up short, specifically for a new owner? One thing the Ralph does need, inarguably, is A LOT of structural work. Concrete and freeze/thaw cycles do not a good relationship make. If I remember from the last discussion about the upgrades, they've had to do a lot of "band aid" work on the concrete supports especially in the last couple of years. I think that would be a huge part of any retrofit project like what was done at Soldier Field, Lambeau, even Gillette and Mile High Stadium, or at some of the older baseball stadiums too. Edited February 17, 2014 by JM57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 i read a disturbing article in the Buffalo News, suggesting a comprimse scenario, that it would be a good idea to build a mohill instead of a mountain, to renvovate RWS and save a penny on the dollar, and I believe that it is precisely the same line of thinking that resulted in the Buffalo Braves leaving Buffalo and next likely the Bills. Fine have your Bisons and Bandits folks. If you want to be a second or third rate sports city then have at it. You must realize that there is no comprimise scenario, it is all in or nothing. This is the NFL people, it is a brand new stadium and luxury tax, seat licenses the whole works, everybody has to kick in and there is no in between. It means tax subsidies and better sell your soul for the NFL. Buffalo has been given a pass as long as Ralph is alive not a day after. If you don't want to play in the big leagues that is fine, there are many other places willing to forfiet their short termy and gamble their future just for a chance to play in the big league. It is now or never. What would you the tax payer rather have the Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra, Hiistorical Museum, some park nobody ever heard of, or another land grant freebie, or an NFL team? We do have a choice. Make your voice heard, it is now or never! Says the Jets fan who shares his stadium with another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 One thing the Ralph does need, inarguably, is A LOT of structural work. Concrete and freeze/thaw cycles do not a good relationship make. If I remember from the last discussion about the upgrades, they've had to do a lot of "band aid" work on the concrete supports especially in the last couple of years. I think that would be a huge part of any retrofit project like what was done at Soldier Field, Lambeau, even Gillette and Mile High Stadium, or at some of the older baseball stadiums too. In all seriousness though, this is a concern. Sooner or later they will have to do something about it. Not sure it's time for a new stadium just yet. I think with the renovations that have been done so far, the Bills will remain where they are for a while, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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