Hackett is Dead Man Walking

[dezertbill]

Nate Hackett wil lmostlikely not last his second season, despite the valiant efforts by Marrone to prop him up with adding Hostler, Downing and SU underling Rob Moore. Imagine the chaffing on his neck as the noose gets tighter and the calls for his head get louder. At least Danny Crossman is safe no special assistants waiting in the wings to "assist" him and "offload" his responsibilites . One wonders where Hackett feels in this new arrangement. Probably like Caeser, atu Douglas!

 

Yeah, there is no shot Hackett gets fired between now and week 17.

 

It's noteworthy those that the Bills brought in so help to expedite Hacketts growth. It's obvious they see him as an up and coming talented OC (especially with his father's bio) and I think the Bills are just trying to get him to a more successful point faster than if he was doing it on his own, as he was last year.

 

The Bills would have to lay a royal egg next season for Hackett to get fired. I don't see that happening.

 

However, if the Bills offense does lay an egg...all bets are off!

[agardin]

 

 

Yeah, there is no shot Hackett gets fired between now and week 17.

 

It's noteworthy those that the Bills brought in so help to expedite Hacketts growth. It's obvious they see him as an up and coming talented OC (especially with his father's bio) and I think the Bills are just trying to get him to a more successful point faster than if he was doing it on his own, as he was last year.

 

The Bills would have to lay a royal egg next season for Hackett to get fired. I don't see that happening.

 

However, if the Bills offense does lay an egg...all bets are off!

 

I admire your optimism. The oftence has to be better.......right? If not then the OC will not be the only change.

[BackInDaDay]

Yes it is. Hackett can't run the offense, be QB coach, AND teach WRs techniques.

 

Wrong. As OC, it's Hackett's responsibility to oversee his position coaches work. He needn't get involved with teaching techniques, but he sure as hell must be sure that every player is prepared to execute his playbook and gameplan. That comes down to communicating his desires to his staff. If Hilliard's receivers weren't being instructed properly, then it was on Hackett to insist Hilliard get the job done to his liking. Same with the RB, TE, and OL coaches. I don't know if the job's too big for Hackett, but his lack of control over his unit has already taken one casualty.

[CardinalScotts]

I agree 100 percent with this. two rookies and Thad. he did pretty well and adjusted well. Not his fault he lacked an actual qb.

exactly I dont get how he was taking any heat last season, really no one had legitimate good points just bitchin to B word

[thebandit27]

 

 

He led the team in catches. How can you even say that? Maybe he had a slow start, but I doubt Chandler and CJ and Stevie all regressed. I think we all know who the real problem was.

 

Zero red zone impact; that's how.

 

When a TE leads the team in catches, it better be because he's dominating the game, and not because your set of QBs constantly check down because nobody is open down the field.

 

[3rdand12]

Wrong. As OC, it's Hackett's responsibility to oversee his position coaches work. He needn't get involved with teaching techniques, but he sure as hell must be sure that every player is prepared to execute his playbook and gameplan. That comes down to communicating his desires to his staff. If Hilliard's receivers weren't being instructed properly, then it was on Hackett to insist Hilliard get the job done to his liking. Same with the RB, TE, and OL coaches. I don't know if the job's too big for Hackett, but his lack of control over his unit has already taken one casualty.

The coaching staff was not structured as well as it should have been. You can blame Whaley , then Marrone then Nate then then the rest of them down to a player . Thats fair. They just got an education in the NFL as a new team , and we all sure hope they learned.

By adding layers of coaches i would say they did. In the right places mind you.

 

Hilliard's guys looked like idiots at times.

 

Chandler rushed back from injury and was not able to play as he did last IMO. ACL y'know. no spring in his step , no jump no burst. Offseason might have him healed and a threat again. and maybe block better

 

Daleks.

Uh Oh !!

[FireChan]

Zero red zone impact; that's how.

 

When a TE leads the team in catches, it better be because he's dominating the game, and not because your set of QBs constantly check down because nobody is open down the field.

Hard to catch TD passes when your QB's don't throw them too much.

[3rdand12]

Hard to catch TD passes when your QB's don't throw them too much.

Even match gentleman. Both are correct !

Carry on . the serve is yours Bandit : )

[firemedic]

Spread offense mixed in might do the trick. That helped CJ immensely in 2012..........

[BobbyC81]

While I'm willing to give the guy a pass due to his rookie stupidity with several issues. He did have great difficulty's facing him with the QB's, the lack of production from his receivers, and the inadequate play of the O line.

 

That line ranked 28th in pass protection, and it sure wasn't Hackett's fault he was left with Colin Brown, his backup in Sam Young, Erik Pears, and Doug Legursky on that line. That line was Marrone's fault for being out on the field and they regressed in several areas, including center. It was also Whaley's fault for allowing those bad players to take the field in the first place.

 

That said the supposed coaching problems have been rectified, and so its up to those I mentioned to learn from their mistakes, and build that O line properly.

 

 

The sack stats for each QB are interesting.

 

 

Player Pass Attempts Sacks % of Attempts Notes

 

EJ 306 28 9.2 Also 53 runs

Lewis 157 18 11.5 24 runs

Tuel 59 2 3.3 Small body of worl but started vs KC

 

 

 

 

I know viewed this way, these stats don't take into account the opponents, the game plan/protections and how many times the QB ran when pressured but they show that EJ may have been slightly better than Lewis in avoiding sacks. Tuel's #'s are hard to compare due to limited playing time but considering he started vs KC, he did pretty good.

Edited February 14, 2014 by LittleJoeCartwright

[BackInDaDay]

The coaching staff was not structured as well as it should have been. You can blame Whaley , then Marrone then Nate then then the rest of them down to a player . Thats fair. They just got an education in the NFL as a new team , and we all sure hope they learned.

By adding layers of coaches i would say they did. In the right places mind you.

 

Hilliard's guys looked like idiots at times.

 

Other than having a dedicated professional coach to work with the young QBs, the staff was structured as most NFL teams are. Potential head coaches must explain their staffing plans during the interview process. You're correct in saying that everyone signed off on the Hackett hire, but they don't share the blame when Hackett's direct reports aren't getting the job done. That buck stopped with the OC. The fact that Crossman's special teams were also suspect, can't sit well with the GM. Marrone better tighten things up, because the final buck stops with him.

 

NFL players that suffer from a lack of recognition, understanding, and urgency will play poorly.

All three are correctable, unless their play is a reflection of their coaching - not in spite of it.

[Doc]

Having a rookie OC leading a rookie QB and mostly inexperienced group of WR's wasn't the best idea. Having him also be the QB coach was even worse.

[3rdand12]

Other than having a dedicated professional coach to work with the young QBs, the staff was structured as most NFL teams are. Potential head coaches must explain their staffing plans during the interview process. You're correct in saying that everyone signed off on the Hackett hire, but they don't share the blame when Hackett's direct reports aren't getting the job done. That buck stopped with the OC. The fact that Crossman's special teams were also suspect, can't sit well with the GM. Marrone better tighten things up, because the final buck stops with him.

 

NFL players that suffer from a lack of recognition, understanding, and urgency will play poorly.

All three are correctable, unless their play is a reflection of their coaching - not in spite of it.

Kinda to Doc's point , they did not have a good balance of old school newer school , and i may be wrong but it seems they have added some " assistants" to properly bridge gaps and actually.. well assist with the big picture . Like Pagac kinda, and how he fits .

But you are right. its on Marrone and Whaley. i think i said that too. Buck stops there . but they needed to address the whole chain and method.

I think they did. How it turns out we don't know, but they did restructure the coaching configuration by addition

[Iraq Vet]

Yeah... lets drop Hacket and start all over again....seriously?

 

 

This is what we have been doing for years.... DUDE, that plan ain't working!

 

Look at great teams... coaching is stable!!!

[Nitro]

Young guys get to grow under certain head coaches. This is the case with Buffalo. Hackett will go through the off season evaluation and will, most likely, shore up his short comings. Having EJ and the Offensive healthy all season will be a plus to him. I am not enamored with his play calling last season but I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Since I am rooting to be successful next season, he will not get fired.

[KGUNBILLS]

I am curious to see how his second year goes. It's similar to new pitchers in baseball. They usually do well the first half of the season, however the second half everyone knows what they have so it seldom goes well. If he can be innovative and throw different plays into the mix from last year, I think he stays.

[thewildrabbit]

The sack stats for each QB are interesting.

 

 

Player Pass Attempts Sacks % of Attempts Notes

 

EJ 306 28 9.2 Also 53 runs

Lewis 157 18 11.5 24 runs

Tuel 59 2 3.3 Small body of worl but started vs KC

 

 

 

 

I know viewed this way, these stats don't take into account the opponents, the game plan/protections and how many times the QB ran when pressured but they show that EJ may have been slightly better than Lewis in avoiding sacks. Tuel's #'s are hard to compare due to limited playing time but considering he started vs KC, he did pretty good.

Hackett ran a version of a WCO, and the QB were supposed to get the ball out quickly.

 

The QB's had problems, the WR's had problems, the O line had problems. So considering all that, Hackett did better then I thought he would. I was devoutly in his corner right up until the Chiefs game, as he lost me in that game with his handling of Jeff Tuel.

 

Anyway, he was an NFL rookie coach who was clearly overloaded with three rookie QB's, and no QB coach. His excuses run out this off season tho.

[BackInDaDay]

Kinda to Doc's point , they did not have a good balance of old school newer school , and i may be wrong but it seems they have added some " assistants" to properly bridge gaps and actually.. well assist with the big picture . Like Pagac kinda, and how he fits .

But you are right. its on Marrone and Whaley. i think i said that too. Buck stops there . but they needed to address the whole chain and method.

I think they did. How it turns out we don't know, but they did restructure the coaching configuration by addition

 

Shoring up the staff after their inefficiencies have been exposed doesn't speak well of Marrone's initial staff, or Brandon's, Nix's, and Whaley's acceptance of his choices. The fact is, players need a plan and the skills to execute the plan. Personally, I believe we've assembled a gifted receiving corp, but when one guy's crossing pattern drags a defender into the passing lane of his teammate's deep in route, an opportunity to make a play is lost. When such breakdowns occur over and over, you're lack of prepareness will cost you games. Winning teams are coached by men who are obsessed with being prepared. Such coaches will not allow the same mistakes to be made repeatedly. It is what it is. Hopefully this staff is capable of growing into the demands of winning. Many poked fun at Jauron's "it's not easy to win" quote, but when the outcome of games hinge on the near perfect execution of well designed plays called to take advantage of a predicted defense - and the QB can't complete that deep in route.. well, you lose more than you win.

[Prickly Pete]

Until they win something, virtually ANY criticism can be levied at the team, the staff, or the organization. "They all suck, prove me wrong" seems to be the theme on this board for many.

 

Only time will tell, so whining about a rookie coaching staff, coaching young players, has gotten tiresome.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro

[Endless Ike]

Hackett and Marrone were dead men walking the day they drafted Manuel...

[3rdand12]

Shoring up the staff after their inefficiencies have been exposed doesn't speak well of Marrone's initial staff, or Brandon's, Nix's, and Whaley's acceptance of his choices. The fact is, players need a plan and the skills to execute the plan. Personally, I believe we've assembled a gifted receiving corp, but when one guy's crossing pattern drags a defender into the passing lane of his teammate's deep in route, an opportunity to make a play is lost. When such breakdowns occur over and over, you're lack of prepareness will cost you games. Winning teams are coached by men who are obsessed with being prepared. Such coaches will not allow the same mistakes to be made repeatedly. It is what it is. Hopefully this staff is capable of growing into the demands of winning. Many poked fun at Jauron's "it's not easy to win" quote, but when the outcome of games hinge on the near perfect execution of well designed plays called to take advantage of a predicted defense - and the QB can't complete that deep in route.. well, you lose more than you win.

well we could back up the bus a bit and talk about a couple of years ago to compare.

At least we can all see adjustments are being made. Effort is being put forth. No its not showing up in the win column , but the team looks like they are not just " hoping " to win games long term.

Obviously i still sit in my optimists chair ! Ask me again after 2014

But you are correct about some of the failings you saw . The offense has to take some large steps forward and develop cohesiveness and consistency.

And thats gonna be on Hackett

[thebandit27]

Hard to catch TD passes when your QB's don't throw them too much.

 

The QBs threw a total of 16 TD passes, 9 of which came in the red zone. Zero of them went to Chandler.

 

To me, that says something. When the guy's only 2 TDs came on busted coverages, and you combine that with the increased number of drops, a huge drop in first down receptions, and the general observation that he lost a step due to the injury, that tells me the guy is on the decline.

 

I like Chandler, and I'm not saying he cannot still be effective...I'm saying that Buffalo needs to do better than what he can produce as a #1 TE...and IMO he's not a good enough blocker to keep around as a #2 TE.

[BackInDaDay]

At least we can all see adjustments are being made. Effort is being put forth. No its not showing up in the win column , but the team looks like they are not just " hoping " to win games long term.

 

agree 100% on this. they've recognized there were issues, and are attempting to correct them. i'm optimistic that the addition of Hostler will have a significant impact on helping Hackett prepare his weekly gameplan, and reinforce what's expected out of the position coaches. with Downing dedicated to handling the QBs, and with the addition of a possibly more approachable receivers coach in Moore, i'm hopeful that Hackett can get his staff on the same page.

[BackInDaDay]

The QBs threw a total of 16 TD passes, 9 of which came in the red zone. Zero of them went to Chandler.

 

To me, that says something.

 

Chandler may be on the decline as a 'down the seam' receiver, but he still presents match-up problems in the red zone. The fact that we couldn't get him isolated on smaller DBs down there says a lot. Of course, we might have had him in front of a safety on a 10 yard hook, but the slot man flew across the face of the play with a nickle back.. duh.. hoping we're schematically sound in 2014.. anybody in the bumper sticker business?

[FireChan]

The QBs threw a total of 16 TD passes, 9 of which came in the red zone. Zero of them went to Chandler.

 

To me, that says something. When the guy's only 2 TDs came on busted coverages, and you combine that with the increased number of drops, a huge drop in first down receptions, and the general observation that he lost a step due to the injury, that tells me the guy is on the decline.

 

I like Chandler, and I'm not saying he cannot still be effective...I'm saying that Buffalo needs to do better than what he can produce as a #1 TE...and IMO he's not a good enough blocker to keep around as a #2 TE.

 

What about both of Chandler's TD passes when he bulldozed into the end zone? What about that absolutely HUGE 4th down conversion against the Bengals to send the game to OT? What about the fact that no receiver on the Bills last year had more than 3 TD's? Is that Chandler's fault?

 

You know who else went down in 3rd down conversion? Everyone. You even said our QB overly checks down which inflates Chandler's catches. Wouldn't that deflate his 3rd down conversions when our QB throws the small stuff that has no chance of getting over the line?

[John from Riverside]

I hope they go early at TE in the draft and I really hope MOEKI (SP) can overcome his injuries and get back to the player he was for the chiefs......which frankly was fantastic

[thebandit27]

What about both of Chandler's TD passes when he bulldozed into the end zone? What about that absolutely HUGE 4th down conversion against the Bengals to send the game to OT? What about the fact that no receiver on the Bills last year had more than 3 TD's? Is that Chandler's fault?

 

You know who else went down in 3rd down conversion? Everyone. You even said our QB overly checks down which inflates Chandler's catches. Wouldn't that deflate his 3rd down conversions when our QB throws the small stuff that has no chance of getting over the line?

 

Obviously QB play is going to affect everything. What I'm saying is that Chandler's performance dipped even when the QB play was sound (and at times, it was).

 

You're also misremembering his TDs. Both were on busted coverages, and only the Jets' TD involved him stretching through/around a tackle. He made a nice stretch to the end zone, yes..."bowled over"? Not even close:

 

http://www.nfl.com/g...ights&tab=recap

 

The Cinci TD he was completely untouched after a busted coverage on which DE Carlos Dunlap was the only zone defender on that side of the field.

 

http://www.nfl.com/v...22-yard-TD-pass

 

EDIT: it's also worth noting that this was not the TD that sent the game to OT...that was Goodwin.

 

My point is that I'm not going to use two plays on which the guy was left wholly uncovered as evidence that he's still capable of making the plays this team needs him to make. As I said before:

 

When the guy's only 2 TDs came on busted coverages, and you combine that with the increased number of drops, a huge drop in first down receptions, and the general observation that he lost a step due to the injury, that tells me the guy is on the decline.

 

I like Chandler, and I'm not saying he cannot still be effective...I'm saying that Buffalo needs to do better than what he can produce as a #1 TE...and IMO he's not a good enough blocker to keep around as a #2 TE.

 

If you disagree that's fine...I'm on the record with my opinion...it remains to be seen what the Bills themselves believe.

Edited February 14, 2014 by thebandit27

[3rdand12]

Obviously QB play is going to affect everything. What I'm saying is that Chandler's performance dipped even when the QB play was sound (and at times, it was).

 

You're also misremembering his TDs. Both were on busted coverages, and only the Jets' TD involved him stretching through/around a tackle. He made a nice stretch to the end zone, yes..."bowled over"? Not even close:

 

http://www.nfl.com/g...ights&tab=recap

 

The Cinci TD he was completely untouched after a busted coverage on which DE Carlos Dunlap was the only zone defender on that side of the field.

 

http://www.nfl.com/v...22-yard-TD-pass

 

EDIT: it's also worth noting that this was not the TD that sent the game to OT...that was Goodwin.

 

My point is that I'm not going to use two plays on which the guy was left wholly uncovered as evidence that he's still capable of making the plays this team needs him to make. As I said before:

 

When the guy's only 2 TDs came on busted coverages, and you combine that with the increased number of drops, a huge drop in first down receptions, and the general observation that he lost a step due to the injury, that tells me the guy is on the decline.

 

I like Chandler, and I'm not saying he cannot still be effective...I'm saying that Buffalo needs to do better than what he can produce as a #1 TE...and IMO he's not a good enough blocker to keep around as a #2 TE.

 

If you disagree that's fine...I'm on the record with my opinion...it remains to be seen what the Bills themselves believe.

fair assesment .

By the way i am holding out hope Tony can get back to his form as a playmaker. Thats a good pickup by Whaley in theory.

I will hold out some hope that Chandler was not fully healthy from that major injury he worked so hard to come back early from , and he is better than showed last season .

[FireChan]

 

 

Obviously QB play is going to affect everything. What I'm saying is that Chandler's performance dipped even when the QB play was sound (and at times, it was).

 

You're also misremembering his TDs. Both were on busted coverages, and only the Jets' TD involved him stretching through/around a tackle. He made a nice stretch to the end zone, yes..."bowled over"? Not even close:

 

http://www.nfl.com/g...ights&tab=recap

 

The Cinci TD he was completely untouched after a busted coverage on which DE Carlos Dunlap was the only zone defender on that side of the field.

 

http://www.nfl.com/v...22-yard-TD-pass

 

EDIT: it's also worth noting that this was not the TD that sent the game to OT...that was Goodwin.

 

My point is that I'm not going to use two plays on which the guy was left wholly uncovered as evidence that he's still capable of making the plays this team needs him to make. As I said before:

 

When the guy's only 2 TDs came on busted coverages, and you combine that with the increased number of drops, a huge drop in first down receptions, and the general observation that he lost a step due to the injury, that tells me the guy is on the decline.

 

I like Chandler, and I'm not saying he cannot still be effective...I'm saying that Buffalo needs to do better than what he can produce as a #1 TE...and IMO he's not a good enough blocker to keep around as a #2 TE.

 

If you disagree that's fine...I'm on the record with my opinion...it remains to be seen what the Bills themselves believe.

 

So Chandler isn't good enough to be our number 1 and he's not good enough to be our number 2? Why do you think he's effective again?

 

And it's important to note that Chandler scoring on a 4th down play was possibly the last play of the game. It was the difference between having a chance to win and defeat. Not taking anything away from Goodwin but it was possibly the biggest play of the game in terms of what was at stake.

 

When was the QB play sound? When EJ had a 4 game streak of throwing it out of bounds? When we picked off Joe Flacco 5 times and could barely get a first down? When we needed at least one defensive TD to win a game where the opponent scored points?

 

Really, if you think Chandler isn't effective enough based on those reasons, how do you feel about Stevie? Increased drops, worse production, and he had a TD on blown coverage to boot. Hell, they basically had the same year.

 

In fact, only TJ Graham increased his production this year. Do I smell him moving up the depth chart?

[thebandit27]

FireChan...

 

We're getting to the point where we're way off topic. My opinion on Chandler is that he's not a good enough TE to be a #1. Typically, I'd prefer if my #2 TE were a good blocker; he isn't.

 

For the many reasons I stated, I'd like an upgrade at TE.

 

That's my opinion. If it isn't clear then PM me and I'll explain further.

 

In the meantime I'm going to leave it at that so that this thread can rightfully be restored to discussing Hackett.

 

Fair?