The inconsistency of ref's in big games ruins the experience.

[Bronc24]

I've been saying this for so long. The difference between how the game is called in regular season and in post season is night and day. Hockey can get this way too. In 2007 the refs had already gone back to pre lockout hockey which aided in the Sabres being handled by Ottawa.

 

This is why 'defense wins championships.' It's why the Giants took down the mighty Pats with the best offense ever in 2008. It's why Peyton's Colts looked like little leaguers every time they stepped into Foxboro. The main change is with PI/defensive holding. DB's are suddenly allowed to be way way more physical and mug the WR's. It's dumb, like the OP said, what's the point if you play the regular season one way and the playoffs another. The best solution is to be a balanced team, though.

 

Of all the ridiculous topics posted on this board, you think THIS is an unbelievable one? Wow. But let's have five cut Stevie threads and five Da'Rick threads after every loss.

 

The Seattle DBs played this game exactly how they've played all season: physical. This wasn't some new s*** they were trying to get away with. They have consistently made contact with receivers for 19 meaningful games.

 

 

Cut Stevie threads are unbelievable. Da'Rick threads are pure stupidity.

 

 

 

What about that hit that Saints' safety put on Percy Harvin in Seattle? Wasn't a clear shot, but it drew the flag.

 

 

What does that have to do with yesterday's game, which I am obviously arguing about?

Edited February 4, 2014 by Bronc24

[reddogblitz]

I've seen the Seahawks play 6-7 times this season and they are ALWAYS jacked. This isn't news you know......they are the face of PED's in the NFL.

 

No I haven't played in the NFL.

 

I have seen the Seahawks play 10 times or more each of the last 8 years. In the last couple of years they are ALWAYS jacked as you say. From the kickoff through the entire game. I've seen a lot of teams that come out jacked and after a series or tell settle down for the most part and just play football. No one can keep that up the whole game until now.

 

I have seen many games where the Seahawks just wear out the other team with their defensive holding, pushing and shoving after the whistle, several of them getting in a guys face after a play, laying nasty cheap shot blind side blows on guys after the play is over the and the guy is trotting back to the huddle.

 

Maybe they are just highly motivated by the Pete Mojo. But I have never seen another team that could do that. If you have, please tell me who it is.

 

And they have been busted for PEDs more than anyone. Coincidence?

 

I'm not saying they are and I'm not saying they're not. But it smells fishy to me that's all I'm saying. Pete Carrol has played fast and loose with the rules all his career. Really think he's stopped?

Edited February 4, 2014 by reddogblitz

[FireChan]

 

 

The Seattle DBs played this game exactly how they've played all season: physical. This wasn't some new s*** they were trying to get away with. They have consistently made contact with receivers for 19 meaningful games.

 

 

Cut Stevie threads are unbelievable. Da'Rick threads are pure stupidity.

 

 

 

What does that have to do with yesterday's game, which I am obviously arguing about?

 

Because you are MISSING the point. Even though it has been expressed over and over. Yesterday's football game was fantastically called. It was a physical, hard hitting, smash mouth game without interference.

 

No other game was like that this year. None. That's what I'm saying. It's stupid that they "call the dogs off" in terms off officiating for the Superbowl. They should either call it how they do all season, ridiculous flags everywhere. Or call the whole season like the Superbowl. Not both.

[Bronc24]

 

 

I have seen the Seahawks play 10 times or more each of the last 8 years. In the last couple of years they are ALWAYS jacked as you say. From the kickoff through the entire game. I've seen a lot of teams that come out jacked and after a series or tell settle down for the most part and just play football. No one can keep that up the whole game until now.

 

I have seen many games where the Seahawks just wear out the other team with their defensive holding, pushing and shoving after the whistle, several of them getting in a guys face after a play, laying nasty cheap shot blind side blows on guys after the play is over the and the guy is trotting back to the huddle.

 

Maybe they are just highly motivated by the Pete Mojo. But I have never seen another team that could do that. If you have, please tell me who it is.

 

And they have been busted for PEDs more than anyone. Coincidence?

 

I'm not saying they are and I'm not saying they're not. But it smells fishy to me that's all I'm saying. Pete Carrol has played fast and loose with the rules all his career. Really think he's stopped?

 

That's how the Niners play as well. Are they cheating too? Or does it happen to be those two teams are built to play each other and their GMs know how to build a winning team?

 

Sounds a lot like envy to me.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Bronc24

[reddogblitz]

That's how the Niners play as well. Are they cheating too? Or does it happen to be those two teams are built to play each other and their GMs know how to build a winning team?

 

Sounds a lot like envy to me.

 

I didn't say the Seahawks were "cheating". I was just making an observation. And even said I don't know if they are or aren't, but there is a lot smoke as in league leading PED suspension since Pete took over.

 

I would disagree that the Niners play the same as the Seahawks.

Edited February 4, 2014 by reddogblitz

[Doug Flutie Band]

i opened this forum and was momentarily shocked to see a thread criticizing the refs for the way they called the superbowl since it was a well called game and the officials were a non-factor...

 

... but then i remembered this is TBD and this kind of tomfoolery is what is to be expected around here

[BADOLBILZ]

That's how the Niners play as well. Are they cheating too? Or does it happen to be those two teams are built to play each other and their GMs know how to build a winning team?

 

Sounds a lot like envy to me.

 

The Niners play with intensity but nobody plays at the energy level of the Seahawks. The Niners play with the intensity of the Steelers/Ravens of recent years. Tough, but within the realm of believability because they have stud talent on their roster. The Seahawks are a team loaded with average NFL players that have boundless energy.......which allows them to make plays they wouldn't be in position to make without some unnatural chemistry, IMO. I'd love to believe the rags to riches story that is a roster full of undrafted and late picked players who overcame incredible odds thru sheer hardwork and determination.....that gives hope to crappy organizations everywhere........but that is not what I see and even if their coach wasn't an unscrupulous guy and they aren't routinely busted for these substances my eyes would tell me something is up. It is that blatant.

 

As a Bills fan I am envious of all good NFL teams. But I really don't care who wins the SB. In fact, as much as Jim Harbaugh may be my least favorite person in the NFL......I have to admit that my perception is that he probably had the most talented team in each of the past two seasons. It's been enjoyable watchng these playoffs, especially the NFC side this year......but in the end the SB felt a lot like one of those LLWS championships of old where you know that the team from Taiwan has a bunch of 14-15 year old kids beating up on opposing 12 year olds that probably could have creamed the Taiwanese when THEY were the same age. I think the Seahawks are something of a sham. Am I outraged about it? No. If they didn't do it, eventually somebody else would have. The league or the teams must now adapt. I am actually not a huge anti-PED guy......I think in many cases controlled use of these substances would make for a more entertaining product. Baseball is the only sport where PED's have really been cracked down on and I must admit I do miss the action generated by all the power created by PED's.

[Bronc24]

The Niners play with intensity but nobody plays at the energy level of the Seahawks. The Niners play with the intensity of the Steelers/Ravens of recent years. Tough, but within the realm of believability because they have stud talent on their roster. The Seahawks are a team loaded with average NFL players that have boundless energy.......which allows them to make plays they wouldn't be in position to make without some unnatural chemistry, IMO. I'd love to believe the rags to riches story that is a roster full of undrafted and late picked players who overcame incredible odds thru sheer hardwork and determination.....that gives hope to crappy organizations everywhere........but that is not what I see and even if their coach wasn't an unscrupulous guy and they aren't routinely busted for these substances my eyes would tell me something is up. It is that blatant.

 

As a Bills fan I am envious of all good NFL teams. But I really don't care who wins the SB. In fact, as much as Jim Harbaugh may be my least favorite person in the NFL......I have to admit that my perception is that he probably had the most talented team in each of the past two seasons. It's been enjoyable watchng these playoffs, especially the NFC side this year......but in the end the SB felt a lot like one of those LLWS championships of old where you know that the team from Taiwan has a bunch of 14-15 year old kids beating up on opposing 12 year olds that probably could have creamed the Taiwanese when THEY were the same age. I think the Seahawks are something of a sham. Am I outraged about it? No. If they didn't do it, eventually somebody else would have. The league or the teams must now adapt. I am actually not a huge anti-PED guy......I think in many cases controlled use of these substances would make for a more entertaining product. Baseball is the only sport where PED's have really been cracked down on and I must admit I do miss the action generated by all the power created by PED's.

 

I'm sorry you have a jaded point of view and the Seahawks' success has tainted your NFL experience.

 

i opened this forum and was momentarily shocked to see a thread criticizing the refs for the way they called the superbowl since it was a well called game and the officials were a non-factor...

 

... but then i remembered this is TBD and this kind of tomfoolery is what is to be expected around here

 

This is the most intelligent post on this thread...including the 10ish I have posted.

[CodeMonkey]

Part of the problem are the rules themselves. If someone on the offense has a muscle spasm they get called for a false start for gods sake.

Plus the refs themselves are too old to keep up in a lot of cases.

 

The inconsistent calls are really just due to the refs seeing only some of the action on the field at any one time.

The only way to remove this in my opinion is to develop an automated system that has a camera on every player and can look for penalties, in bounds or not, and everything else. Without this you are stuck with a handful of humans trying to enforce a seemingly endless list of [often worthless] rules. And where you have humans you will always have human error.

Edited February 4, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

I'm sorry you have a jaded point of view and the Seahawks' success has tainted your NFL experience.

 

 

 

This is the most intelligent post on this thread...including the 10ish I have posted.

 

 

seems to me you have your experience as a coach and it allows for a different perspective than some other folks might have. my assumption is that what some see as inconsistency you simply view as part of human element of the game. i've read the various comments over the past few days...i don't see where the OP said anything that rises to the level of 'tomfoolery' at all. he said there are inconsistencies in the way games are officiated, and for him, it ruins the experience. i'd hazard a bet that if i asked 100 nfl football fans if the officiating was consistent week to week, game to game, i figure 90 of them would say it was not. the most common example...."Gosh, it was great to see them just let 'em play!". I recall the great marv levy referring to an official as 'an overly-officious jerk'. bb's complaints about the play in carolina, his comments about welker taking out talib..aren't those just examples of calls he thought should be made, but weren't?

 

taken a step further--the seattle td set up by the pass interference call was absolutely the correct call. a short time later, broncos still in it (in retrospect, probably, the equivalent of a guy still having a chance to survive just before he falls into the wood chipper), driving, and the seattle dback pretty clearly cutting off the receiver route with no flag. no pi, no hold, no nothing. We're not talking in the trenches, we're talking a play with two guys near the ball and no one around them. Missed call? Judgement call? Let 'em play?

 

the nfl should cringe when someone makes the comment that the game was exceptionally called, or when some announcer says they 'just let 'em play today...". the goal should be to be consistent week in, week out. if, as some have suggested, seattle built their team with the understanding that they'd be overly aggressive play after play because the officials won't call penalties on every play---they should be penalized play after play if the rules suggest they should.

 

Part of the problem are the rules themselves. If someone on the offense has a muscle spasm they get called for a false start for gods sake.

Plus the refs themselves are too old to keep up in a lot of cases.

 

The inconsistent calls are really just due to the refs seeing only some of the action on the field at any one time.

The only way to remove this in my opinion is to develop an automated system that has a camera on every player and can look for penalties, in bounds or not, and everything else. Without this you are stuck with a handful of humans trying to enforce a seemingly endless list of [often worthless] rules. And where you have humans you will always have human error.

 

word.

[Maury Ballstein]

Put me in team bronc/weo.

 

I don't think there's any reason to talk refs in regard to the Super Bowl. This was a great job by them.

 

Legion of boom went boom. Refs were irrelevant.

[NoSaint]

 

 

That's how the Niners play as well. Are they cheating too? Or does it happen to be those two teams are built to play each other and their GMs know how to build a winning team?

 

Sounds a lot like envy to me.

 

 

i dont know whether or not there is fire behind the smoke in seattle, but ill say specifically reddogs post was pretty reasonable. you come off far more personally invested in the perception than he does.

 

theyve had a lot of suspensions in the last few years (i believe it was 6 suspensions since 2011, plus shermans overturned one?), and even members of the team have been pretty wishy washy when asked about the issues (sherman saying "it seems that way" and "it is what it is" in response to being asked if the team has an issue with PEDs).

 

is it significant, i dont know, but it seems to be a fair question.

Edited February 4, 2014 by NoSaint

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The thread is heading in a few different directions but I feel the OP is right.

 

There is still a lot of inconsistency in how downfield contact is called. And it make drastic differences in games.

 

There was a great write up on the bills steelers game this year and how lots of uncalled downfield contact really neutralized the bills o and a rookie QB trying to find open targets. Other games even accidental nudges are called so it makes for a completely different ball game.

 

Call it or don't, but be consistent so teams can build themselves accordingly.

[Captain Caveman]

It's hardly just arguing. You call what the Seahawks do outright "cheating", but what the Broncos do "an 'interesting' way around the rules". They both are doing the same thing--as the second article I cited points out.

 

The distinction you make is not relevant except to display your bias for one team over the other--which doesn't make for a persuasive argument.

 

 

No bias on my part. The NFL confirmed that according to the current rules, if a receiver is running a route, he has the right of way, even if his route is designed to run a "pick". What the Broncos are doing has been confirmed as being legal by the NFL - it's not offensive pass interference if a receiver is running a route.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/22/nfl-confirms-wes-welkers-hit-on-aqib-talib-was-legal/

[Mr. WEO]

The thread is heading in a few different directions but I feel the OP is right.

 

There is still a lot of inconsistency in how downfield contact is called. And it make drastic differences in games.

 

There was a great write up on the bills steelers game this year and how lots of uncalled downfield contact really neutralized the bills o and a rookie QB trying to find open targets. Other games even accidental nudges are called so it makes for a completely different ball game.

 

Call it or don't, but be consistent so teams can build themselves accordingly.

 

If you are arguing that ref incosistency has been par for the course all season long, you are disagreeing gwith the OP--who stated that the rules somehow changed for the SB only.

 

"the refs should let them play. But this was such an insane difference from regular season football I couldn't even believe it."

 

No bias on my part. The NFL confirmed that according to the current rules, if a receiver is running a route, he has the right of way, even if his route is designed to run a "pick". What the Broncos are doing has been confirmed as being legal by the NFL - it's not offensive pass interference if a receiver is running a route.

 

http://profootballta...alib-was-legal/

 

I guess nothing is illegal until it gets whistled for a penalty. In that sense, Seattle is no more "cheating" than Denver.

 

Pick plays are illegal. If a guy runs a pick play, they tell him to keep running a route so he doesn't get flagged. He can't "pick" a defender before the ball is thrown.

 

From the WSJ article:

 

"But according to an analysis of game film performed for the Journal by a college referee who has worked with NFL teams, the Broncos and Seahawks have avoided dozens of penalties this season. Among all 675 of Denver's pass attempts during the 2013 regular season, the Broncos executed a pick play on 90 of them, or 13%. According to the referee, 21 of those 90 plays should have drawn a flag for offensive pass interference, which is punished with a 10-yard penalty."

 

" No Denver receiver committed more infractions on pick plays than Eric Decker, whose habit of impeding defenders before the pass was airborne should have resulted in seven penalties. "No receiver should be running downfield with his arms outstretched like Frankenstein," said the referee, referring to Decker's posture before collisions."

 

Bottom line, both teams are bending the rules and daring the refs to throw mutltiple flags every game. They know that refs won't toss that many flags, so they do what they do. Pretending one team is cheating whereas the other is not is bogus.

[bbb]

Referee inconsistency is downright idiotic. Half of the hits in the Superbowl would have been called unnecessary roughness week 10 of the regular season. Why do the refs do this and why do fans seem to like it? We crown Denver with the best offense in the league, then make them play the Superbowl under a different set of rules? Might as well have made them play soccer and wonder why they didn't score 10 goals against Man U.

 

I understand that people say they don't want calls to decide games. And I agree. So, 4th quarter or so, the refs should let them play. But this was such an insane difference from regular season football I couldn't even believe it. Even worse, an insane difference from the 49ers and Panthers game a few weeks back in the playoffs. They called about 10 penalties in the first quarter, mostly unnecessary roughness. Some of the calls were identical to non-calls in the Superbowl.

 

DISCLAIMER:

 

I am not condoning pass- and offense-happy rules. I'm just saying the rules should be the same in the regular and postseason or else what is the point?

 

This is why I don't think the Redskins killed the Bills in Super Bowl 26. When you have a high powered offense, but the defense gets to pound you before the ball gets to you, you have no chance to make the catch, keep the ball, score a touchdown - you know compete in the game.

[ColdBlueNorth]

Just to be clear....you are saying the Seahawks got away with stuff that was called all year? Have you watched many Seahawk games this season? I've watched them all.

 

That game was called like every Seahawk game all year.

 

Just to be clear - I said what I said, which had little to do with what you just said.

[Bronc24]

Just to be clear - I said what I said, which had little to do with what you just said.

 

Gotcha, Chief.

[Bronc24]

seems to me you have your experience as a coach and it allows for a different perspective than some other folks might have. my assumption is that what some see as inconsistency you simply view as part of human element of the game. i've read the various comments over the past few days...i don't see where the OP said anything that rises to the level of 'tomfoolery' at all. he said there are inconsistencies in the way games are officiated, and for him, it ruins the experience. i'd hazard a bet that if i asked 100 nfl football fans if the officiating was consistent week to week, game to game, i figure 90 of them would say it was not. the most common example...."Gosh, it was great to see them just let 'em play!". I recall the great marv levy referring to an official as 'an overly-officious jerk'. bb's complaints about the play in carolina, his comments about welker taking out talib..aren't those just examples of calls he thought should be made, but weren't?

 

taken a step further--the seattle td set up by the pass interference call was absolutely the correct call. a short time later, broncos still in it (in retrospect, probably, the equivalent of a guy still having a chance to survive just before he falls into the wood chipper), driving, and the seattle dback pretty clearly cutting off the receiver route with no flag. no pi, no hold, no nothing. We're not talking in the trenches, we're talking a play with two guys near the ball and no one around them. Missed call? Judgement call? Let 'em play?

 

the nfl should cringe when someone makes the comment that the game was exceptionally called, or when some announcer says they 'just let 'em play today...". the goal should be to be consistent week in, week out. if, as some have suggested, seattle built their team with the understanding that they'd be overly aggressive play after play because the officials won't call penalties on every play---they should be penalized play after play if the rules suggest they should.

 

 

 

word.

 

I agree with this. My argument is, just as WEO states, that the OP suggests the officiating in the Superbowl was inconsistent with the regular season. I am stating, maybe too emphatically, that it was not. Seattle played the exact brand of football they played all year.

 

As for being "jacked" and in the right place at the right time, they do have these people called coaches and when you give a great defensive team two weeks to prepare against a great offensive team, I strongly believe the defense will win almost every, if not every time. Seattle's defensive line dominated Denver's offensive line and executed the game plan perfectly, allowing them to drop 7 into coverage most of the night, get Manning off his spots and disrupting his timing throughout the game. Brilliantly coached and brilliantly executed.

 

I will also add that John Fox severely dropped the ball by not practicing with loud speakers because "Superbowl crowds are quieter". That crowd sounded as loud as any Superbowl game I have heard and when you aren't prepared for it because you failed to prepare for it, the advantage goes to the defense in a big way.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Bronc24

[Captain Caveman]

 

" No Denver receiver committed more infractions on pick plays than Eric Decker, whose habit of impeding defenders before the pass was airborne should have resulted in seven penalties. "No receiver should be running downfield with his arms outstretched like Frankenstein," said the referee, referring to Decker's posture before collisions."

 

 

I didn't see that happen this year (didn't get to watch a lot of games) and didn't notice it in the SB, but if it was happening then I agree it should have been a penalty.