The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All

[TakeYouToTasker]

I was under the impression that it's largely based on ideas from the Heritage Foundation (and then supported by various conservative politicians), and similar to work done under Romney in Mass. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me, I'm not an expert.

 

And political sales pitches are always bull ****. Left side, right side, whatever... a capitalist system with a couple more regulations here and there, and some subsidy availability is not an overhaul, it's an adjustment. It appears most here have had negative experiences with the outcome of the law. Mine have been "business as usual", and that's not good enough. I want to see America join the rest of the modern world.

Had you ever stopped to consider that what "the rest of the modern world" is doing is actually worse than what America was doing?

 

No...

 

Of course not.

[Dorkington]

Just a thought: if you're genuinely not sure what you're talking about...stop talking. Because when you try to sound like an authority by referencing something you 'were under the impression' about, you sound less like an authority and more like gatorman.

 

Nowhere did I attempt to be an authority on the subject. I am not an expert in any field, by any stretch, nor am I an authority. I do have my own personal experiences, education, and opinion, though. If there is some minimum requirement on education for this thread, please direct me the documents that state so, so that I may review them and decide if I want to comply, to participate, or go elsewhere.

 

Had you ever stopped to consider that what "the rest of the modern world" is doing is actually worse than what America was doing?

 

No...

 

Of course not.

 

Doing worse according to which metrics?

[Chef Jim]

Nowhere did I attempt to be an authority on the subject. I am not an expert in any field, by any stretch, nor am I an authority. I do have my own personal experiences, education, and opinion, though. If there is some minimum requirement on education for this thread, please direct me the documents that state so, so that I may review them and decide if I want to comply, to participate, or go elsewhere.

 

Do you consider yourself a liberal/progressive?

[TakeYouToTasker]

Doing worse according to which metrics?

Stop with metrics. We're not at the part of the conversation where metrics matter. We'll get there soon enough.

 

We're still at the point where we talk about what the goals of various health care systems are, and how well they achieve both their intended goals, and how they respond to the goals of competeing health care systems.

 

Rank what you feel are the most important goals of a national health care system, in order.

[boyst]

Do you consider yourself a liberal/progressive?

He clearly should. His thought process and ethical basis is clearly well more developed then yours, right?

[IDBillzFan]

Nowhere did I attempt to be an authority on the subject.

 

Your point was that Obamacare was kinda funny, and supported your comment with two unqualified points which are not true; 1) the law was based on the Heritage Foundation plan and 2) progressives didn't like it because they really wanted single payer.

 

First, progressives all across the land LOVED Obamacare, and applauded and cheered and cried as Nancy Pelosi walked gavel-in-arm through protesters to bring in the vote for Obamacare. That changed the minute it became the largest FUBAR'ed federal government law in the history of forever, at which time progressives began two ridiculous back-pedaling talking points: 1) I didn't like the law anyway because what I really wanted was single payer and 2) Besides, the law was based on the same thing put out by the Heritage Foundation, so conservatives should love it!

 

ACA and the Heritage plan had one thing in common: mandatory coverage. But the type of coverage required, costs, deductible, etc. were on completely different ends of the spectrum. There is no way anyone not named Michael Moore can suggest, with a straight face, that ACA was based on the Heritage plan.'

 

If you don't know that, you should stop using it as a way to support a comment.

[DC Tom]

Your point was that Obamacare was kinda funny, and supported your comment with two unqualified points which are not true; 1) the law was based on the Heritage Foundation plan and 2) progressives didn't like it because they really wanted single payer.

 

First, progressives all across the land LOVED Obamacare, and applauded and cheered and cried as Nancy Pelosi walked gavel-in-arm through protesters to bring in the vote for Obamacare. That changed the minute it became the largest FUBAR'ed federal government law in the history of forever, at which time progressives began two ridiculous back-pedaling talking points: 1) I didn't like the law anyway because what I really wanted was single payer and 2) Besides, the law was based on the same thing put out by the Heritage Foundation, so conservatives should love it!

 

ACA and the Heritage plan had one thing in common: mandatory coverage. But the type of coverage required, costs, deductible, etc. were on completely different ends of the spectrum. There is no way anyone not named Michael Moore can suggest, with a straight face, that ACA was based on the Heritage plan.'

 

If you don't know that, you should stop using it as a way to support a comment.

 

Of course, there's a superficial resemblance to the Heritage Foundation's paper...if you isolate the three sentences in that paper that are similar to one section of the 2000-page ACA legislation.

 

More to the point, can anyone make any sort of reasonable statement concerning what the ACA is based on when "we have to pass it to know what's in it?"

[boyst]

I find it interesting that Nancy Pelosi actually said we have to pass it to see what is in it and yet Democrats still make a fuss about every Sarah Palin thing ever said, done and known. Even now, over 5 years later they are still obsessed.

[Dorkington]

Thanks for the responses.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Thanks for the responses.

I wish I could say the same...

 

I'll try again:

 

"We're still at the point where we talk about what the goals of various health care systems are, and how well they achieve both their intended goals, and how they respond to the goals of competeing health care systems.

 

Rank what you feel are the most important goals of a national health care system, in order."

[OCinBuffalo]

TTYT: your method here is fine with me.

 

Let me know when we get to the metrics part. I'll be sharpening my axe while I'm waiting.

[Chef Jim]

I wish I could say the same...

 

I'll try again:

 

"We're still at the point where we talk about what the goals of various health care systems are, and how well they achieve both their intended goals, and how they respond to the goals of competeing health care systems.

 

Rank what you feel are the most important goals of a national health care system, in order."

 

I think I can aswer here. The most important goal was that he got his a !@#$ everyone else. That is one of the tenets of liberals/progressives right?

[Dorkington]

Never said that. I have Tasker on ignore, so I generally don't view his posts. I did ask for metrics, and he ignored it, so conversation over.

 

I've said time and time again, that I'm not a big fan of Obamacare. It's going ok for me, but it clearly isn't for anyone else here, which means something needs to be changed.

 

I'm generally not a fan of the major profit driven medical industry here. It makes it incredibly challenging for poorer Americans to obtain quality care. That doesn't lie at the feet of Obamacare solely, as prices were rocketing up before it's implementation, and since it's implementation.

 

For all I care, repeal it, destroy it, go to a fully free market solution. I don't care what the solution is, as long as the results are there. As long as people from all walks of life have access to medical care.

[Tiberius]

I wish I could say the same...

 

I'll try again:

 

"We're still at the point where we talk about what the goals of various health care systems are, and how well they achieve both their intended goals, and how they respond to the goals of competeing health care systems.

 

Rank what you feel are the most important goals of a national health care system, in order."

Providing the best, most widespread coverage at the cheapest cost to everyone

[TakeYouToTasker]

Providing the best, most widespread coverage at the cheapest cost to everyone

That's not a prioritized list, it's a bumper sticker slogan.

 

Give me a prioritized list.

[Tiberius]

That's not a prioritized list, it's a bumper sticker slogan.

 

Give me a prioritized list.

Not sure how I would prioritize to achive that it would depeand on the political situation

No, that's the overall goal

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

Not sure how I would prioritize to achive that it would depeand on the political situation

No, that's the overall goal

In this exercise, politics are not a consideration, policy is.

 

A prioritized list of the things a national healthcare policy should achieve is the best place to start. What's the most important feature? Having the best care? Universal access? Subsidized costs? Centralized medical data? A competitive market? Equal access to all types of care regardless of the ability to pay? Top tier, cutting edge research and development? Access to experimental treatment? A growing field of doctors and other medical workers?

 

Then what's the second most important feature, and so on. Your answers don't have to be on my list, but they should be individual features, not combinations. Try to list between five and ten.

 

Never said that. I have Tasker on ignore, so I generally don't view his posts. I did ask for metrics, and he ignored it, so conversation over.

Dude, you're such an intellectual coward. Grow up.

Edited November 5, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker

[Tiberius]

In this exercise, politics are not a consideration, policy is.

 

A prioritized list of the things a national healthcare policy should achieve is the best place to start. What's the most important feature? Having the best care? Universal access? Subsidized costs? Centralized medical data? A competitive market? Equal access to all types of care regardless of the ability to pay? Top tier, cutting edge research and development? Access to experimental treatment? A growing field of doctors and other medical workers?

 

Then what's the second most important feature, and so on. Your answers don't have to be on my list, but they should be individual features, not combinations. Try to list between five and ten.

 

 

Dude, you're such an intellectual coward. Grow up.

Do all those things and pay doctors and nurses more, also. We can afford it all. And if I ain't gotta worry none about politics toss in the cost of the bullets I'll be a usin to shoot all the cry babies that are dumb enough to get in my way. I would kill and save all at once! Of glory!

[IDBillzFan]

Not sure how I would prioritize to achive that it would depeand on the political situation

No, that's the overall goal

 

You guys need to understand. Gatorman isn't a detail guy. He can't be bothered with the details.

 

No. He's an idea guy. He gets ideas. Here comes another one: What if you put the mayonnaise in the can WITH the tuna? Wait. I got it. Take live tuna fish and FEED them mayonnaise! Oh, man, this is great!

[Dorkington]

Dude, you're such an intellectual coward. Grow up.

 

You can't answer a simple question without resorting to name calling. So why should I engage? You and Gatorman can hash it out (though, I don't necessarily agree with him on all things, like some assume).