C.Biscuit97 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yeah I want him to succeed but I'm not holding my breath on that. I will say it amazes me how our really good return game from 2012 basically became a non-factor. And I'd fire my friend in a second if he sucked at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Yeah I want him to succeed but I'm not holding my breath on that. We all want him to succeed if he stays the coach --- we are, after all still Bills fans !! . . . . the issue is, we don't think he has the capability to succeed --- Edited January 10, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We all want him to succeed if he stays the coach --- we are, after all still Bills fans !! . . . . the issue is, we don't think he has the capability to succeed --- I hope that is the case but there are some that would rather be right than certain people succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We all want him to succeed if he stays the coach --- we are, after all still Bills fans !! . . . . the issue is, we don't think he has the capability to succeed --- For *me* this is an issue of integrity...Marrone said accountability is the key, then Crossman's STs effectively stink and he's retained. Nope, hollow words from here on out until Marrone proves different. I HOPE Crossman succeeds too...and if he does, Marrone's lack of integrity won't matter, but it won't disappear, it will just be forgotten about...to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The problem with the "its only one year, give them some time" mentality is that you can pretty much excuse anything that happened over the 16 games. Its not logical. so, based on that, you're done with EJ, too, then, right? jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 so, based on that, you're done with EJ, too, then, right? jw if EJ doesnt get it done for a decade, and is on his third team, i will grow skeptical of the excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I have a hard time with this one as well. When Coach Gailey took over in 2010, in his first year before his special teams got their "core" players together, his units rated in the middle of the league. I can also say with confidence that in the other 9 teams with new coaches they did a better job of getting their "core" special teams players together as well. Why are we having so much trouble? I know the board didn't mean to, but I just want to make sure you know that was jw, I can't take any credit or discredit for that statement. i was quoting him, but my little quoty-thingy button was broken so it all got lumped in together....just want to set the record straight, for better or worse. By the way jw, despite the fact we disagree on this subject, I truly do appreciate your insight and the time you take to come to the board...thanks man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 so, based on that, you're done with EJ, too, then, right? jw Your logic doesn't make sense -- you can't compare a rookie 1st round QB to a veteran ST coach who has a poor coaching track record --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 By the way jw, despite the fact we disagree on this subject, I truly do appreciate your insight and the time you take to come to the board...thanks man. not to get tooooo sappy, but agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Your logic doesn't make sense -- you can't compare a rookie 1st round QB to a veteran ST coach who has a poor coaching track record --- i can, too. this might be EJ's first NFL season, but the knock against him coming out of college was that he was inconsistent, and had difficulty completing some throws. yep. still the case. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 i can, too. this might be EJ's first NFL season, but the knock against him coming out of college was that he was inconsistent, and had difficulty completing some throws. yep. still the case. jw Playa hata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 i can, too. this might be EJ's first NFL season, but the knock against him coming out of college was that he was inconsistent, and had difficulty completing some throws. yep. still the case. jw lets say we count EJs college time in my previous 10 years and 3 teams comment, and say if hes doing it in 5 years on his next team as well, theres more reason to be skeptical than there is right now? because thats essentially where crossman is at. its a decade of bad units which includes all time historical bad moments in the not to distant past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) i can, too. this might be EJ's first NFL season, but the knock against him coming out of college was that he was inconsistent, and had difficulty completing some throws. yep. still the case. jw Keep selling the logic, but I'm not buying --- a 10-year ST coach should know how to step in, take charge, game plan, coach and get his players to execute and perform at a reasonably high level --- versus a rookie QB, that had 3 separate knee injuries that cost him at least 1/3rd of the season --- come on, you know the expectations for a rookie QB are not in the same league as a 10-year coach ---- and, BTW, I'm not defending the season EJ had, but I'm certainly more willing to cut him some slack than Crossman --- Edited January 10, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Keep selling the logic, but I'm not buying --- a 10-year ST coach should know how to step in, take charge, game plan, coach and get his players to execute and perform at a reasonably high level --- versus a rookie QB, that had 3 separate knee injuries that cost him at least 1/3rd of the season --- come on, you know the expectations for a rookie QB are not in the same league as a 10-year coach ---- and, BTW, I'm not defending the season EJ had, but I'm certainly more willing to cut him some slack than Crossman --- after one season, of course. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 after one season, of course. jw Like most others on this board who are advocating for Crossman's dismissal --- I would feel differently about him if his prior 10+ years were more accomplished OR ifhe was a rookie ST coach --- what's been mentioned on several posts is Hackett --- I think Hackett had an up and down 1st year --- but, he's in his first job as an OC and I'm willing to give him another year to improve, and I think he will ---- the Crossman hire didn't go over well because folks looked at the performance of his other ST units and they were subpar --- so, after one year, when the results are the same with the Bills, the pitchforks come out --- his proverbial leash is a lot shorter --- I don't think that's being unfair ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Like most others on this board who are advocating for Crossman's dismissal --- I would feel differently about him if his prior 10+ years were more accomplished OR ifhe was a rookie ST coach --- what's been mentioned on several posts is Hackett --- I think Hackett had an up and down 1st year --- but, he's in his first job as an OC and I'm willing to give him another year to improve, and I think he will ---- the Crossman hire didn't go over well because folks looked at the performance of his other ST units and they were subpar --- so, after one year, when the results are the same with the Bills, the pitchforks come out --- his proverbial leash is a lot shorter --- I don't think that's being unfair ---- Give Mr. Warrwrrwrowrww a break. He has already written the first line of his 2014 Bills preview and doesn't want to have to throw it away: "The Bills had a solid defense in 2013 and there is reason to believe the offense will be improved, but on special teams there is still a large Crossman to bear." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Lets see... Doug hired his buddy because he was his pal and did him a favor maybe . What . poor guy The Donny is on his way down the ranks and barely tolerated at the Lions probably. Maybe good ole boy Doug asked The Donny to come help him get up and running. The man Has been in the league quite a many years andat least has seen lotsa NFL . . There is always a;ways more to the story. I will say it amazes me how our really good return game from 2012 basically became a non-factor. And I'd fire my friend in a second if he sucked at his job. So would Marrone or any NFL Coach , you have to . I assume it was understood amongst the brethren edit and yes Sir the return game disappeared regardless of some decent stats if you look at ST as a whole Edited January 11, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Crap, I cannot believe I am posting this in this thread. But it is worth while since I posted it in another thread. Our ST unit was ripped apart several times and lacking quality bodies. Many of the guys that should make up the chart were cut in the season or used on starting teams. ST is made up of backup positions and in several positions we have an odd roster. Four TE's?! We had how many starting CB's this year? WR's are poor. Our backup RB can't play special teams because he is winded just playing in as a sub. Our 3rd RB was cut and replaced later in the season - and he was one of the cornerstones to the unit and he was not replaced. The few OL we went through could not be replaced on punt coverage and I am surprised we did not blocked kicks or punts. Sam Young was on the punt team and was replaced. Crossman had to get a new guy up to speed quick there, like many other positions. He is given a WR so fast that his return units can't keep up to begin with and when you put new bodies to block for him it's going to be an f-up. Crossman did do a lousy job but I blame Marrone a lot for not compiling a roster ready for the season. His plug and play style may be flashy to draw headlines because if you can't cut it you get the cut but it is horrible for special teams. I will give Crossman a short leash and take some an inch or two from Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Just so we're all on the same page, here's how Danny Crossman's Special Teams units have ranked (according to Football Outsiders) since his first year at the post, 2005: 2005 - Carolina - 5th 2006 - Carolina - 24th 2007 - Carolina - 30th 2008 - Carolina - 10th 2009 - Carolina - 29th 2010 - Detroit - 11th 2011 - Detroit - 29th 2012 - Detroit - 30th 2013 - Buffalo - 30th It's like a complete mystery. Maybe he just needs a certain profile of player to put together a solid unit? I don't know... What this shows is he inherits a good squad and continuously makes them worse. From 5th to 30th in Carolina and from 11th to 30th in Detroit. Now 30th to ? in Buffalo. This guy is a scrub. Shame on Marrone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 so, based on that, you're done with EJ, too, then, right? jw JW, it's not a fair analogy. Crossman has been in the league for years. He's not getting better. He doesn't have a record of making ST units better. EJ is in his first year as a pro and he's improving. We don't know what EJ's ceiling is. EJ deserves another year. Crossman probably didn't deserve his first year and has done nothing to prove the doubters wrong. Just so we're all on the same page, here's how Danny Crossman's Special Teams units have ranked (according to Football Outsiders) since his first year at the post, 2005: 2005 - Carolina - 5th 2006 - Carolina - 24th 2007 - Carolina - 30th 2008 - Carolina - 10th 2009 - Carolina - 29th 2010 - Detroit - 11th 2011 - Detroit - 29th 2012 - Detroit - 30th 2013 - Buffalo - 30th It's like a complete mystery. Maybe he just needs a certain profile of player to put together a solid unit? I don't know... Crossman's results do very with talent, which confirms Marrone's comment about core players, but the scary thing is that - on average - Crossman's ST units average 22nd in the league. That's not a good record. And has been pointed out, his trend is that he seems to make teams worse over time rather than better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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