Trestman, Arians, McCoy, Kelly already providing dividends

[YoloinOhio]

So you are still of the "Chip Kelly's gimmicky offense can't work in the NFL" school of thought, right? Do you think the Bills made a better hire than the Eagles did?

 

Chudzinski certainly seems to be clueless (witness his clock management at the end of the Pats' game), but I would argue that the Browns are in much better shape as a franchise than the Bills and will make the playoffs long before Buffalo will. They have a very talented defense, one absolute stud WR, another very good WR, and a rising star at TE. Although they have not identified a bona fide franchise QB, all three of their QBs (Campbell, Weeden, and Hoyer) are better right now than any QB on the Bills' roster. And they stole Indy's no. 1 pick this year for a useless running back.

This comment really stood out to me. As I live in Ohio, I can tell you Browns fans and media do not share your sentiments. They think they have no QB, no plan, no running game, 1 WR who is one strike away from being suspended for a year... a good defense that needs to resign a bunch of guys to stay together... constantly revolving FO... they look at the Bills as being young but at least having a plan in place and QB they are building a team around. They hate Weeden and want him gone which was a huge waste of a top pick, Campbell is a journeyman who has shown flashes but no idea if he is the answer, and Hoyer is a very limited QB who is a nice story but not sure of his ceiling. It is a bad time for Browns fans. As always.

[cvanvol]

This comment really stood out to me. As I live in Ohio, I can tell you Browns fans and media do not share your sentiments. They think they have no QB, no plan, no running game, 1 WR who is one strike away from being suspended for a year... a good defense that needs to resign a bunch of guys to stay together... constantly revolving FO... they look at the Bills as being young but at least having a plan in place and QB they are building a team around. They hate Weeden and want him gone which was a huge waste of a top pick, Campbell is a journeyman who has shown flashes but no idea if he is the answer, and Hoyer is a very limited QB who is a nice story but not sure of his ceiling. It is a bad time for Browns fans. As always.

 

Yeah the browns are pretty much in shambles again. They will also likely lose a bunch of those guys off the defensive side of the ball plus they have absolutely no RB play to speak of. They will probably take QB and RB in round one with their two pick and hope that those guys pan out.

[YoloinOhio]

Yeah the browns are pretty much in shambles again. They will also likely lose a bunch of those guys off the defensive side of the ball plus they have absolutely no RB play to speak of. They will probably take QB and RB in round one with their two pick and hope that those guys pan out.

The Browns fans feel just as cursed as Bills fans, it seems. Saying any of their QBs right now are better than EJ is a bit of a stretch. That is like naming the Valedictorian of summer school.

[GaryPinC]

The Browns fans feel just as cursed as Bills fans, it seems. Saying any of their QBs right now are better than EJ is a bit of a stretch. That is like naming the Valedictorian of summer school.

 

Yea, I live in Cleveland too and no way would I take any of their QB's (including Hoyer) over EJ Manuel. Browns fans are just as cursed as us. But if they can retain their critical players they have a ton of draft picks in the spring and could be sitting well if they select the right QB. We'll see.

[mannc]

This comment really stood out to me. As I live in Ohio, I can tell you Browns fans and media do not share your sentiments. They think they have no QB, no plan, no running game, 1 WR who is one strike away from being suspended for a year... a good defense that needs to resign a bunch of guys to stay together... constantly revolving FO... they look at the Bills as being young but at least having a plan in place and QB they are building a team around. They hate Weeden and want him gone which was a huge waste of a top pick, Campbell is a journeyman who has shown flashes but no idea if he is the answer, and Hoyer is a very limited QB who is a nice story but not sure of his ceiling. It is a bad time for Browns fans. As always.

Interesting perspective. Obviously, I don't follow the Browns that closely, but from where I sit, they seem to have more of the pieces in place than Buffalo does. Gordon might be the best WR in the league right now--bar none--Little is an excellent number 2 guy and Cameron is an emerging star at TE. Sure, Weeden was a crappy draft pick but as a back-up one could certainly do worse, as the Bills well know. It seems to me this Browns FO has at least as good a plan as Whaley and company and they absolutely fleeced the reigning NFL Executive of Year when they dumped T. Rich at mid-season. And how is EJ a more promising QB prospect than Hoyer? I would bet anything that the Browns win more games than the Bills next year.

Edited December 10, 2013 by mannc

[ExiledInIllinois]

Trestman is 7-6 while Bills are 4-9. That is only a three game swing. Bears play in the worst division in football.

[Mr. WEO]

So you are still of the "Chip Kelly's gimmicky offense can't work in the NFL" school of thought, right? Do you think the Bills made a better hire than the Eagles did?

 

 

Chip Kelly revolutionized the NFL for exactly one half of one game. Then he woke up and realized he had Mick Vick for QB (for a little bit longer) and wished he had never left that totally cush job in Oregon. I was never in favor of Kelly for the Bills. Whether Marrone was a better hire I can't say at this point. Maybe if Marrone had Foles he would look a lot smarter too.

[Leelee Phoenix]

So do we now think Marrone would still be sitting at 4-9 if he was hired by the Bears and inherited Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffrey, and Matt Forte rather than EJ Manuel, Stevie Johnson, Robert Woods, and CJ Spiller?

Possibly. Note that half the Bears wins have come with McCown, who has played at a level far higher than the rest of his career. And the Bears defense has suffered lots of injuries. The talent disparity isn't much, if there even is one.

[mannc]

Chip Kelly revolutionized the NFL for exactly one half of one game. Then he woke up and realized he had Mick Vick for QB (for a little bit longer) and wished he had never left that totally cush job in Oregon. I was never in favor of Kelly for the Bills. Whether Marrone was a better hire I can't say at this point. Maybe if Marrone had Foles he would look a lot smarter too.

I didn't say Kelly revolutionized the NFL. What he has done is win, and will probably make the playoffs, with a team that finished with a worse record than the Bills last year. Kelly also deserves credit for giving Foles a chance to play and for developing him, both things that coach of the year candidate Andy Reid largely failed to do last year. Kelly also deserves credit for adapting his system to the NFL and to the players he has on-hand; most people said he couldn't win with a non-running QB like Foles. What has Marrone done to make you think he is a better coach than, say, Mike Mularkey or Dick Jauron?

[mart]

Do you really think any top notch coach would go near the Bills after Gm Bill Polian got run off,

 

and if you believe Marrone is one of the top paid coaches in the NFL, then you believe

 

in Santa Claus, and the US Congress.

 

I lost all respect for Marrone in the pre-season when he was asked about EJs knee and

 

procedure and he said he knew but wasn!t telling. Did EJ have a problem with his knee

 

before he was drafted or did he hurt it while trying to pass the soup at dinner and he

 

missed the table and fell.

[YoloinOhio]

Interesting perspective. Obviously, I don't follow the Browns that closely, but from where I sit, they seem to have more of the pieces in place than Buffalo does. Gordon might be the best WR in the league right now--bar none--Little is an excellent number 2 guy and Cameron is an emerging star at TE. Sure, Weeden was a crappy draft pick but as a back-up one could certainly do worse, as the Bills well know. It seems to me this Browns FO has at least as good a plan as Whaley and company and they absolutely fleeced the reigning NFL Executive of Year when they dumped T. Rich at mid-season. And how is EJ a more promising QB prospect than Hoyer? I would bet anything that the Browns win more games than the Bills next year.

Little is the Browns equialent to TJ Graham. Maybe you saw a good game from him? If you know what their plan is the fans would like to know! They have none! They do appear to have won the trade with the Colts but keep in mind it was really a wash, as they traded one of their #1 picks up to get him and it will be a late 1st rd pick. No one knows if Hoyer will start next year but if he does, who knows what you will get as he did nothing in college or the NFL, on several diiferent teams until he came in and played decent for a few games this year. Their QB situation is very cloudy.

 

Possibly. Note that half the Bears wins have come with McCown, who has played at a level far higher than the rest of his career. And the Bears defense has suffered lots of injuries. The talent disparity isn't much, if there even is one.

lol. Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, Marcellus Bennett, OL, Matt Forte.

[mannc]

Little is the Browns equialent to TJ Graham. Maybe you saw a good game from him? If you know what their plan is the fans would like to know! They have none! They do appear to have won the trade with the Colts but keep in mind it was really a wash, as they traded one of their #1 picks up to get him and it will be a late 1st rd pick. No one knows if Hoyer will start next year but if he does, who knows what you will get as he did nothing in college or the NFL, on several diiferent teams until he came in and played decent for a few games this year. Their QB situation is very cloudy.

 

Yes, I saw Little eat the Bills' secondary for lunch. I think he looked good in a few other games I saw, too. Remember, the vast majority of Browns fans were outraged at the T. Rich trade and now it appears to be a major coup. I don't agree that it was a wash. The Colts got a RB who is no better than what they could pick up on the street corner and the Browns got a number 1 pick. The fact that R. Rich was once upon a time the third overall pick is irrelevant because he clearly was not worth that anymore. It was an extremely shrewd (and gutsy) move by the new FO.

[dezertbill]

This is a statement of opinion, not fact. "Dividends' is very subjective.

 

Trestman, McCoy, and Arians are working with veteran QBs - Cutler, Rivers, and Palmer respectively. Trestman's team was 10-6 last year and had a strong defense. They will do well to get to 10 wins last year and now have a terrible defense and a good offense.

 

Marrone, Bradley, and Chudzinski all inherited open-ended QB situations. Marrone is a step ahead of those guys in that he has identified his guy and will sink or swim. Bradley and Chud made the mistake (in conjunction with their GMs of course) that there was hope for Gabbert or Weeden. They will be drafting in year two.

 

Props to Chip Kelly - no question. He did inherit a very talented offensive squad but he has made Foles a highly efficient QB.

 

I completely agree that Kelly gets major props for the job he has done in Philly.

 

I also remember how he came under heavy fire when the Eagles started out 1-3, and then again 3-5. Some wondered if his college game would translate into the NFL. Good thing they didn't fire him after half a season.

 

Foles has done a great job in his SECOND year in the league. His rookie season he was 1-6 as a starter. However he did show promise with a 79% passer rating and his team scored 20 points or more in 5 of his 7 games. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

 

Good thing they didn't get rid of the bum after those subpar numbers his rookie year when everyone was saying he wasn't a fit for Kelly's offense and they had Vick, Barkley and Dennis Dixon in the fold.

Edited December 10, 2013 by dezertbill

[mattsox]

..and the Bills and Marrone are regressing the development of their franchise QB by scaling down the offense. Marrone has been unable to develop or even show progress in development of a franchise QB in the 1st year and penalties have skyrocketed.

 

I find that very worrysome with the team fundamentals (we rank in the top tier in fumbles) and penalties

 

Marrone doesn't seem to know how to develop a QB IMO nor develop an offensive scheme to take advantage of their best players abilities (Spiller is the key one).

 

Trestman et al are in the 1st class of 1st year head coaches, Marrone is in another with the hires of Rob Chudsinki and Gus Bradley.

 

Wouldn't it be something if Bradley outcoaches Marrone next week? That would be quite depressing.

 

Yep. Blow it up!

[GaryPinC]

Little is the Browns equialent to TJ Graham. Maybe you saw a good game from him? If you know what their plan is the fans would like to know! They have none! They do appear to have won the trade with the Colts but keep in mind it was really a wash, as they traded one of their #1 picks up to get him and it will be a late 1st rd pick. No one knows if Hoyer will start next year but if he does, who knows what you will get as he did nothing in college or the NFL, on several diiferent teams until he came in and played decent for a few games this year. Their QB situation is very cloudy.

 

The plan has been to stockpile draft picks and have a huge draft in 2014, you saw that come in to play in the 2013 drafts trading 4th and 5th round picks for 2014 3rd and 4th round. They appear to have hit with Mingo, Gordon and McFadden, their top 3 picks. Is there any doubt they will select a quarterback as first priority? They have a good defense, just need to work on O-line (especially if they don't sign Alex Mack) and a running back (which isn't that hard to pick up), then just the odd DB and/or LB.

 

There's a plan in place but winning this year was not in it. Hard for Cleveland fans to accept but that was/is the plan. Weak quarterback draft in 2013 so they chose not to address it. They did take a big risk trading T. Richardson but he was an injury concern and his motivation was questionable. Sorry, Indy.

 

I can't agree equating Little to TJ Graham. Little is more effective than Graham but is inconsistent (goes through bouts of the dropsies). I can't say who has the better plan until next year and am anxious to see how Whaley does with no Nix factor. The scary part is that for a rebuilding year Cleveland was looking very strong until their QB situation went to the dumpster. Cleveland fans are like us in that they expected playoffs but the minute they made the draft day trades I figured this was a washout year.

[YoloinOhio]

Yes, I saw Little eat the Bills' secondary for lunch. I think he looked good in a few other games I saw, too. Remember, the vast majority of Browns fans were outraged at the T. Rich trade and now it appears to be a major coup. I don't agree that it was a wash. The Colts got a RB who is no better than what they could pick up on the street corner and the Browns got a number 1 pick. The fact that R. Rich was once upon a time the third overall pick is irrelevant because he clearly was not worth that anymore. It was an extremely shrewd (and gutsy) move by the new FO.

The Browns traded away their 4th, 5th and 6th rd pick to move up from 4 to 3 in 2012 to get Trich. They spent 4 draft picks on him. They are getting a late 1st back. After having been forced to watch Greg Little over the last couple years (also he is a turd off the field just like Gordon, but whatever) I just cannot agree he is an excellent #2 WR. Maybe he will start looking better with more focus on Gordon. It was certainly a gutsy move for them, as all of their marketing stuff for 2013 had Trich all over it.

 

The plan has been to stockpile draft picks and have a huge draft in 2014, you saw that come in to play in the 2013 drafts trading 4th and 5th round picks for 2014 3rd and 4th round. They appear to have hit with Mingo, Gordon and McFadden, their top 3 picks. Is there any doubt they will select a quarterback as first priority? They have a good defense, just need to work on O-line (especially if they don't sign Alex Mack) and a running back (which isn't that hard to pick up), then just the odd DB and/or LB.

 

There's a plan in place but winning this year was not in it. Hard for Cleveland fans to accept but that was/is the plan. Weak quarterback draft in 2013 so they chose not to address it. They did take a big risk trading T. Richardson but he was an injury concern and his motivation was questionable. Sorry, Indy.

 

I can't agree equating Little to TJ Graham. Little is more effective than Graham but is inconsistent (goes through bouts of the dropsies). I can't say who has the better plan until next year and am anxious to see how Whaley does with no Nix factor. The scary part is that for a rebuilding year Cleveland was looking very strong until their QB situation went to the dumpster. Cleveland fans are like us in that they expected playoffs but the minute they made the draft day trades I figured this was a washout year.

Not acceptable in the NFL. Not for a fan base that has been though what they have. And they haven't communicated the plan well, but "planning" a washout year is a bad feeling. At least pretend. Edited December 10, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[Max997]

..and the Bills and Marrone are regressing the development of their franchise QB by scaling down the offense. Marrone has been unable to develop or even show progress in development of a franchise QB in the 1st year and penalties have skyrocketed.

 

I find that very worrysome with the team fundamentals (we rank in the top tier in fumbles) and penalties

 

Marrone doesn't seem to know how to develop a QB IMO nor develop an offensive scheme to take advantage of their best players abilities (Spiller is the key one).

 

Trestman et al are in the 1st class of 1st year head coaches, Marrone is in another with the hires of Rob Chudsinki and Gus Bradley.

 

Wouldn't it be something if Bradley outcoaches Marrone next week? That would be quite depressing.

 

Good points

 

Trestman is doing a good job but he took over a pretty good team that I believe won 10 games last year

 

I really like Bradley and was hoping Bills would hire him. I liked the Marrone hire but I am concerned as I haven't seen any improvement and if anything have watched this team regress from a promising start. This team has the same feel as the Jauron teams.

 

Jax looked terrible early in the year but are playing well lately and fully expect them to beat the Bills this weekend considering how terrible they are on the road

Edited December 10, 2013 by Max997

[Leelee Phoenix]

lol. Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, Marcellus Bennett, OL, Matt Forte.

Bears have had a notoriously bad line for years, and everyone would have said Spiller over Forte before the season.

[YoloinOhio]

Bears have had a notoriously bad line for years, and everyone would have said Spiller over Forte before the season.

We are still talking about this year right? They completely rebuilt their OL and it is one of the best in the league. Forte is better and more consistent than Spiller this year. And in any year, IMO. But I could have stopped at the WR corp. Mike Wilbon on PTI said today that in all his years of watching Bears football (he is from Chicago, a huge Bears fan, and in his 50s I am guessing) he has never seen the collection of offensive talent like they have right now. Edited December 11, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[Mark Vader]

Bears have had a notoriously bad line for years, and everyone would have said Spiller over Forte before the season.

Little did we know that Spiller would be asked to run up the middle over and over again.

 

With no blocking Fullback to lead the way.