JPS Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 If he's the answer, what's the question? Seriously, he has shown some flashes of ability. And he's shown some of what got #5 and #7 out of town. Maybe the odd numbers are a problem. I dunno. All I know is a PLAN B better be on the roster next year….and a PLAN C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Remember at the beginning of the season when almost everyone on here agreed that EJ Manuel was a raw talent who would need at least a year to start showing the signs of becoming a "franchise QB"? Obviously, dealing with it is another matter entirely...lol He's had a couple very good starts a few very bad starts and showed little flashes here and there of performing under pressure. IMO Manuel does his best QBing when the game is tight in the last 2 ins of games. That started in preseason and has been a factor in two of his regular season games. So IMO, that smart, accurate, "franchise QB" is in there somewhere. He just needs to somehow learn to stop over-thinking and play that way for a full 60 mins. I will go along with that PLEASE STOP USING PROFANITY! Sorry...im trying to biuld my street cred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Have you actually seen Nassib play in the preseason? He was worse than awful. EJ is Montana compared to Nassib. Stop it already. 7-19 114 yards 0-0 and 5 sacks playing with 3rd and 4th stringers. I never seen him play in preseason, just going by his stats. Playing for new coaches, new system and being a rookie. Same as EJ, except one difference. Nassib appears smarter than EJ and if he was here instead of EJ, the learning curve would have been very minimal in my opinion therefor better results in theory. He really couldn't do much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 whether or not it's warranted is almost immaterial here. it takes more than one season to develop a quarterback and this offseason is crucial to EJ. like it or not, good teams -- teams that show patience and don't bend to kneejerk whims -- give their quarterback a season and a few months to show what they can do. that's what the Bills evidently signed up for, and that's what teams should do. that's my opinion. now, if there's a can't miss guy at the top of the draft when it comes the Bills time to pick, that is completely up for debate. i'd hate to be the person making that decision. jw Bills fans have grown impatient, judging by the number of negative posts. and who could blame us for being impatient?? After 14 yrs of basically the same thing year in and year out this is what happens to a fan base, even as one as loyal as we are. But I agree with you, I'm somewhere in the middle also. But really looking forward to seeing what he does after a pro off season. He will have a chance to watch every game, see what he did wrong and correct it. I think he has the smarts and work ethic to be a much better QB next year. Now if he doesn't improve by the middle of next season then we might have a problem. But its way to early to judge him now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 With all due respect, I really haven't seen many calling EJ a savior. I think people love the guy's mental and physical makeup & want him to be the guy. Most rational people realize that giving up on a 1st round Qb after 9 games with some of the circumstances (the 2 injuries) is sort of crazy. Exactly... Everyone wants him to be, but reality is no rookie QB saves a franchise in despair. As I've posted elsewhere, he has the physical attributes. It will all come down to how hard he wants to work to be the best and how confident he becomes. We just won't know until we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Whether or not you agree with the decision, that is probably what the Bills signed up for.... ......teams rarely go back to the well in the 1st round the very next year. I wouldn't expect the bills to deviste from that trend. Do you think Bill Belichick takes the attitude that he "signed up for this" so he is just going to ride it out? That's defeatist. And as for what other teams do.......this isn't another team......this is the only team that hasn't made the playoffs in the past 14 years. The wait part for some here is until there is conclusive evidence a player isn't good enough, then and only then can we declare he's not good. This is what some fans don't seem to get. It's not EJ or nobody. This isn't 1995.....it isn't even 2005. You don't have to sacrifice seasons to develop QB's any longer. The NFL is much more QB friendly now. It still might take a Josh McCown-type a dozen years for the game to slow down for him but that doesn't mean you gotta' wallow in football purgatory for years any longer. This organization has been far too passive with the QB position. Be aggressive. Make mistakes of aggression. Create competition. Until you get an elite QB you don't have what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 7-19 114 yards 0-0 and 5 sacks playing with 3rd and 4th stringers. I never seen him play in preseason, just going by his stats. Playing for new coaches, new system and being a rookie. Same as EJ, except one difference. Nassib appears smarter than EJ and if he was here instead of EJ, the learning curve would have been very minimal in my opinion therefor better results in theory. He really couldn't do much worse. Seriously, Nassib was turrible in preseason. For any proof, he clearly lost the backup job to Curtis Painter. Good chance Nassib is out of the league in a year. Last year was a terrible QB draft class. It wasn't the year for Buddy to retire and draft "his" QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Tebow averaged well over 200 in starts his rookie season. And won a playoff game! You're conflating 2010 and 2011... His rookie year he played in 9 games only started 3 due to injury and threw for 600ish yds. Playoff win was following season. But he did have an iconic touchdown celebration Seriously, Nassib was turrible in preseason. For any proof, he clearly lost the backup job to Curtis Painter. Good chance Nassib is out of the league in a year. Last year was a terrible QB draft class. It wasn't the year for Buddy to retire and draft "his" QB 1 or 2 of these guys are going to pan out, just looking on average. Hope it's ours, could be Glennon, doubt it's Geno, sure it's not nassib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Generally QBs who can't throw don't just all of a sudden become good throwers Try to tell that to the Fitz faithful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Try to tell that to the Fitz faithful Remember last year when Promo proclaimed Bills fans would be foaming at the mouth for a 3000+ yard and 22+ TD QB this year? I dooooooooooooooo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I will go along with that Sorry...im trying to biuld my street cred All cred right here, John. Do you think Bill Belichick takes the attitude that he "signed up for this" so he is just going to ride it out? That's defeatist. And as for what other teams do.......this isn't another team......this is the only team that hasn't made the playoffs in the past 14 years. This is what some fans don't seem to get. It's not EJ or nobody. This isn't 1995.....it isn't even 2005. You don't have to sacrifice seasons to develop QB's any longer. The NFL is much more QB friendly now. It still might take a Josh McCown-type a dozen years for the game to slow down for him but that doesn't mean you gotta' wallow in football purgatory for years any longer. This organization has been far too passive with the QB position. Be aggressive. Make mistakes of aggression. Create competition. Until you get an elite QB you don't have what you need. No doubt, it's not EJ or nobody. Sane people say: look at what's available, if a can't-miss guy falls in your lap, of course, take him. If another guy you like but know needs seasoning / has facets of the game to improve falls to you in the third round, sure, take him. It's also not "EJ is a bust and will never succeed and we must draft another QB or we're sunk." That's the same logic that some people say landed us EJ. But it's not wrong this time because EJ sucks amirite? Crazily enough, none of these things work as a simple binary. That makes it very difficult for some fans who refuse to see things any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I will say this: remember when Detroit (and Buffalo) was the laughing stock of the NFL?? It all turned around in 2 Drafts with Megatron and Stafford. When Stafford was drafted, that franchise became one with hope but Stafford had all the gifts and intagibles to go with the pedigree he brought from Georgia. With that said, I don't "know" that Manuel is the Franchise, but I do know the BILLS are at least another stellar Draft away from being in contention. Plus, another decent FA period. As a side note, in the same year and the same round, 1st round, the Lions drafted Brandon Pettigrew, but NOT - repeat NOT - to be a pass catching TE, rather a blocking TE to give Stafford some protection. That was key, because as Pettigrew has struggled with pass catching relevance, he has been a solid blocker for Stafford overall and that's why the Lions drafted them together. Food for thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Do you think Bill Belichick takes the attitude that he "signed up for this" so he is just going to ride it out? That's defeatist. And as for what other teams do.......this isn't another team......this is the only team that hasn't made the playoffs in the past 14 years. In general, yes...we've never seen Belichick have to develop a QB besides Brady, who seemed ready to play from the moment he stepped on the field. As for other positions, it's pretty common for players to be eased into the game when their drafted in NE. Now, whether that's an effect from the team being good to begin with we can't say. This is what some fans don't seem to get. It's not EJ or nobody. This isn't 1995.....it isn't even 2005. You don't have to sacrifice seasons to develop QB's any longer. The NFL is much more QB friendly now. It still might take a Josh McCown-type a dozen years for the game to slow down for him but that doesn't mean you gotta' wallow in football purgatory for years any longer. This organization has been far too passive with the QB position. Be aggressive. Make mistakes of aggression. Create competition. Until you get an elite QB you don't have what you need. You already know I agree with that overall philosophy. My question is: isn't the bold statement exactly what they did with EJ in the 2013 draft? Get aggressive; pick a QB. An even more interesting question might be: does that make you think they are more or less likely to do it again? I will say this: remember when Detroit (and Buffalo) was the laughing stock of the NFL?? It all turned around in 2 Drafts with Megatron and Stafford. When Stafford was drafted, that franchise became one with hope but Stafford had all the gifts and intagibles to go with the pedigree he brought from Georgia. With that said, I don't "know" that Manuel is the Franchise, but I do know the BILLS are at least another stellar Draft away from being in contention. Plus, another decent FA period. As a side note, in the same year and the same round, 1st round, the Lions drafted Brandon Pettigrew, but NOT - repeat NOT - to be a pass catching TE, rather a blocking TE to give Stafford some protection. That was key, because as Pettigrew has struggled with pass catching relevance, he has been a solid blocker for Stafford overall and that's why the Lions drafted them together. Food for thought.... He's an UFA you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 In general, yes...we've never seen Belichick have to develop a QB besides Brady, who seemed ready to play from the moment he stepped on the field. As for other positions, it's pretty common for players to be eased into the game when their drafted in NE. Now, whether that's an effect from the team being good to begin with we can't say. You already know I agree with that overall philosophy. My question is: isn't the bold statement exactly what they did with EJ in the 2013 draft? Get aggressive; pick a QB. An even more interesting question might be: does that make you think they are more or less likely to do it again? He's an UFA you know... Who is an UFA?? Pettigrew? If that's the case, I don't blame the Lions for letting him walk, depending on his demands, but then again, Pettigrew is a decent blocker. Although their line is in better shape than it was when they drafted Stafford and Pettigrew's blocking skills may no longer be needed. And the Lions should be looking for a pass catching TE to take some pressure off of Megatron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I will say this: remember when Detroit (and Buffalo) was the laughing stock of the NFL?? It all turned around in 2 Drafts with Megatron and Stafford. When Stafford was drafted, that franchise became one with hope but Stafford had all the gifts and intagibles to go with the pedigree he brought from Georgia. With that said, I don't "know" that Manuel is the Franchise, but I do know the BILLS are at least another stellar Draft away from being in contention. Plus, another decent FA period. As a side note, in the same year and the same round, 1st round, the Lions drafted Brandon Pettigrew, but NOT - repeat NOT - to be a pass catching TE, rather a blocking TE to give Stafford some protection. That was key, because as Pettigrew has struggled with pass catching relevance, he has been a solid blocker for Stafford overall and that's why the Lions drafted them together. Food for thought.... Matt Stafford's rookie year (playing with the best wr in the NFL): 53.3%, 6 ypa, 13 tds, 20 ints. http://www.nfl.com/player/matthewstafford/79860/profile Those are worse numbers than EJ has playing on a team that doesn't exactly have Calvin Johnson to throw jump passes too (Cue the posters to say you can't look at the stats because they knew Stafford was going to be awesome). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Matt Stafford's rookie year (playing with the best wr in the NFL): 53.3%, 6 ypa, 13 tds, 20 ints. http://www.nfl.com/player/matthewstafford/79860/profile Those are worse numbers than EJ has playing on a team that doesn't exactly have Calvin Johnson to throw jump passes too (Cue the posters to say you can't look at the stats because they knew Stafford was going to be awesome). Yup. There's always something. You know, because scouting reports (from which you can probably cherry pick just about any statement to validate your claim). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'm not optimistic about EJ, but I'll certainly give him another year. It's not like a HoF QB is going to fall in our laps, and it's not like our FO will fill all the holes on our team, or spend to the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'm not optimistic about EJ, but I'll certainly give him another year. It's not like a HoF QB is going to fall in our laps, and it's not like our FO will fill all the holes on our team, or spend to the cap. You seem to be speaking as though those two issues have something to do with each other...the numbers don't reflect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 You seem to be speaking as though those two issues have something to do with each other...the numbers don't reflect that. I thought we were something like $20 million under this year? And don't we have glaring holes at guard, tight end, wide receiver and linebacker? Anyways, the point is, it really doesn't matter if EJ develops or not, we seem to have a problem developing a complete team. Whenever we improve one part, we let another part go free with holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I thought we were something like $20 million under this year? And don't we have glaring holes at guard, tight end, wide receiver and linebacker? Anyways, the point is, it really doesn't matter if EJ develops or not, we seem to have a problem developing a complete team. Whenever we improve one part, we let another part go free with holes. The only thing that doesn't change at OBD….is "the skim"! NOTHING messes with that sweet sweet rev sharing $$$ …..fielding a discount team probably increases bonuses up top……winning a distant distant second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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