Jonathan Martin AWOL, Incognito suspended

[Prickly Pete]

Eventually the word will lose it's power, this is all part of the process. No need to worry though, there will always be new hateful terms to take the place of the old, outmoded expressions.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[Matt in KC]

here is the most intelligent thing ever said about this topic. i'd like to think that whites, blacks, yellows, pinks, blues and greens alike can agree with this, and stop using the word, 100% of the time. it's not that confusing or complicated. hip hop culture has a big share in the blame, at least in contemporary terms.

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD-UpHlB9no

I thought that was great.

 

I hate censorship. This is the correct opposite extreme in my opinion: convincing and reminding people why they should choose something else.

[Dibs]

buckle up folks this could be fun. I challenge tom not to get banned for this?

....

 

Yep, this thread has all of a sudden become interesting. <reclines back, reaches for popcorn>

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

I thought that was great.

 

I hate censorship. This is the correct opposite extreme in my opinion: convincing and reminding people why they should choose something else.

 

well said, man, which is why i shared it. this is not censorship, nor do i advocate censorship. i'm glad at least one person enjoyed it.

[Prickly Pete]

This might be the single most overblown event in the history of the NFL, and sports media.

[ALF]

Martin won't play for Miami again, I'am not too impressed with him as OT , could he be a OG in Buffalo ? He is very big and smart ! He would play lights out against Miami.

[26CornerBlitz]

Martin won't play for Miami again, I'am not too impressed with him as OT , could he be a OG in Buffalo ? He is very big and smart ! He would play lights out against Miami.

 

The Dolphins will trade Martin and I'm betting it will not be to the Bills.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Now that's crap. "!@#$" was not a primary (or secondary, or any sort of) tool of racial oppression, and it HAS been subject to faddish acceptance and rejection - anyone who doesn't believe that just needs to watch an episode of Sanford and Son, or All In The Family, or even the movie Glory (which was rated R for violence, not the line "!@#$ forgot to duck, that's all" which would earn it an R-rating today).

 

And sadly, the irony of him suggesting that locker room speech of predominately black players be monitored and controlled by predominately white owners/managers is completely lost on him.

 

To consider the former common-use term for a race systematically disenfranchised, legally and societally up through the 1960s throughout the south, a tool of racial oppression? One could make an argument either way, but I think it's a bit naive to state it's crap. Actually, I think it's a lot naive on your part, but that's just me. I'm kind of a history buff, and well aware that the sharecropping system, systematic discrimination in employment and education, black folks afraid to shop at a store in the "white" part of town, are a lot closer to current events than most people think.

 

There is irony to suggesting white owners and predominantly white coaches monitor locker room speech.

 

But there's also irony in black guys vigorously defending their right to refer to each other and to be referred to by others of their choice, by a word they would not want someone to apply to their family members. How do you think Barkley or Shaq would react if someone said to their wife or mother "move, !@#$?"

 

And didn't Barkley once try to spit on a fan who was using that word to heckle him during a game?

 

There's power in words, which is why it's powerful to claim and utilize former perjoratives, make them "titles of honor" as it were. But it's tricky business when they're still plainly perjorative, even to the people claiming and using them.

 

Martin won't play for Miami again.

 

I would be surprised if Martin plays professional football again. He may be traded, he may be given a chance, but there are two things against him:

1) he isn't really strong enough (or maybe not nasty enough) to hold off NFL DLmen

2) OL must be cohesive, and he's going to have trouble building trust with new teammates. They're all gonna be worried, if he's smiling is he taking it right, or is he bottling it up for sale to the medical industry and media next time he feels overwhelmed?

Edited November 16, 2013 by Hopeful

[NoSaint]

 

 

To consider the former common-use term for a race systematically disenfranchised, legally and societally up through the 1960s throughout the south, a tool of racial oppression? One could make an argument either way, but I think it's a bit naive to state it's crap. Actually, I think it's a lot naive on your part, but that's just me. I'm kind of a history buff, and well aware that the sharecropping system, systematic discrimination in employment and education, black folks afraid to shop at a store in the "white" part of town, are a lot closer to current events than most people think.

 

There is irony to suggesting white owners and predominantly white coaches monitor locker room speech.

 

But there's also irony in black guys vigorously defending their right to refer to each other and to be referred to by others of their choice, by a word they would not want someone to apply to their family members. How do you think Barkley or Shaq would react if someone said to their wife or mother "move, !@#$?"

 

And didn't Barkley once try to spit on a fan who was using that word to heckle him during a game?

 

There's power in words, which is why it's powerful to claim and utilize former perjoratives, make them "titles of honor" as it were. But it's tricky business when they're still plainly perjorative, even to the people claiming and using them.

 

 

 

I would be surprised if Martin plays professional football again. He may be traded, he may be given a chance, but there are two things against him:

1) he isn't really strong enough (or maybe not nasty enough) to hold off NFL DLmen

2) OL must be cohesive, and he's going to have trouble building trust with new teammates. They're all gonna be worried, if he's smiling is he taking it right, or is he bottling it up for sale to the medical industry and media next time he feels overwhelmed?

 

Look for him in Indy with luck as his qb, flee net next to him at TE and his college coordinator pep Hamilton coaching him. There'd be skepticism but if those 3 went to bat for him, I think a team could accept him into the building.

[Rico]

I would be surprised if Martin plays professional football again. He may be traded, he may be given a chance, but there are two things against him:

1) he isn't really strong enough (or maybe not nasty enough) to hold off NFL DLmen

2) OL must be cohesive, and he's going to have trouble building trust with new teammates. They're all gonna be worried, if he's smiling is he taking it right, or is he bottling it up for sale to the medical industry and media next time he feels overwhelmed?

Agreed. I don't think there's a GM out there stupid enough to bring him in. The only way I can maybe see it happening is if Goodell asks an owner for a big favor.

[KD in CA]

Eventually the word will lose it's power, this is all part of the process. No need to worry though, there will always be new hateful terms to take the place of the old, outmoded expressions.

 

Not as long as some people can keep making money by convincing the dumb masses to attach some boogeyman-facination with the word it won't.

 

The word will lose its power when people acknowledge that what two guys (who they never met) call each other in private has absolutely no impact on their lives. And heaven knows, we'll all way too important these days to admit that.

[Rob's House]

here is the most intelligent thing ever said about this topic. i'd like to think that whites, blacks, yellows, pinks, blues and greens alike can agree with this, and stop using the word, 100% of the time. it's not that confusing or complicated. hip hop culture has a big share in the blame, at least in contemporary terms.

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD-UpHlB9no

I don't have any problem with what this guy has to say, however, I do find it disturbing that someone who finds this to be "the most intelligent thing ever said about this topic" is in a position to teach students. Although, given what secondary education has become I suppose it's par for the course.

 

Not as long as some people can keep making money by convincing the dumb masses to attach some boogeyman-facination with the word it won't.

 

The word will lose its power when people acknowledge that what two guys (who they never met) call each other in private has absolutely no impact on their lives. And heaven knows, we'll all way too important these days to admit that.

I don't care what what their relationship was, or in what context it was said. As a white person, being outraged at all use of "the N-word" is my way of telling the world that I'm one of the good ones and I'm not racist. I'm not going to let anyone take that away from me.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Rob's House

[tennesseeboy]

Agreed. I don't think there's a GM out there stupid enough to bring him in. The only way I can maybe see it happening is if Goodell asks an owner for a big favor.

Duh...assuming (big assumption by the way) that he is a quality left tackle...some team is going to take him. Frankly if Incognito is still any good and gets "rehab" and over whatever suspension there is...some team is going to take him. This isn't a friggin monastery..its the NFL. They hire and play wife-beaters, drug-dealers and users, repeat dui offenders...it boils down to money and money is made by winning..

[BuffaloBill]

 

And sadly, the irony of him suggesting that locker room speech of predominately black players be monitored and controlled by predominately white owners/managers is completely lost on him.

 

I'm white and I could not disagree more. To me the crux of the issue is that the word does have very, very negative connotations period. As a result it's use is not appropriate. It's not a whole lot different than many words that pick up meanings that are larger than than perhaps they should. Why is not ok to say F .. but it is ok to say intercourse? They say the same thing in very literal terms. However the implied meaning and perception is far different. Why is it that the language filter on this board allows one but not the other?

 

Simple most people deem the use of the f word to be offensive. The N word is no different. It is offensive and wrong. Should I be allowed to use blackface and then run around and freely express the n word? The idea is offensive on many levels as it should be.

 

Silly? Perhaps but real nonetheless.

[boyst]

I agree entirely with Whitlock.

 

Putting aside the social debate, if I run a multi-million dollar business, I am not letting my employees use the "n-word" and offend a lot of my customers.

JR you know this is with all due respect. But come on. You can't JUST say that. You don't want them saying the gay f word. You don't want names or derogatory language used at all. The N word is just a tiny pinch of the greater issue - call it hate speech if you want. Does it matter that I call someone the N word more because it has history vs calling them a B word?

 

To single out one single word as hateful is disgusting. to say players can't say !@#$ but can say faggot. ... look at the filter along. It doesn't recognize faggot as offensive. How many pro athletes have we heard talk horribly about gays and Jews? How many of them have shown intolerance? Far more then have spoke out against blacks

[boyst]

 

 

I see your point. It is certainly a slippery slope. if I were an owner, I'd still enact a policy that prohibits people from using words that connote hate speech. That would include the n word and fa**ot, and frankly whatever I think qualifies in my sole discretion. if I hear about, it's an automatic fine.

 

There are moral reasons for this. But as an owner, it's also about the bottom line. Players using taboo words is bad for business.

the slip on the slope is focusing on the negativity. That we focus on a word being so quick to classify something as bad - and in many cases worse - is where we forget that bad is bad and there is no buts. If I called you dumb or stupid I am absolutely no way making any less of an insult then calling you a fing stupid cracker moron poop face.

[KD in CA]

I don't care what what their relationship was, or in what context it was said. As a white person, being outraged at all use of "the N-word" is my way of telling the world that I'm one of the good ones and I'm not racist. I'm not going to let anyone take that away from me.

Bingo.

 

Fact is, the only people who should give a damn already HAVE removed the power from the word by using it as a casual and familiar address. Now we just need to get the silly white people who look for things to be 'offended' about as a hobby to actually understand WHY people call each other '!@#$'; or at least find find another way to flatter their own egos.

[Just in Atlanta]

I see your point. It is certainly a slippery slope. if I were an owner, I'd still enact a policy that prohibits people from using words that connote hate speech. That would include the n word and fa**ot, and frankly whatever I think qualifies in my sole discretion. if I hear about, it's an automatic fine.

 

There are moral reasons for this. But as an owner, it's also about the bottom line. Players using taboo words is bad for business.

They're words. That's it. Which words would you ban? How about "B word"? That could be construed as hateful. Should we have a list of banned words? The more we get our panties in a wad over words that are said every freaking day, the more damage they do, the more we don't get past our differences, the more political correctness wins, the more we don't improve. How about we all just toughen up a little.

[BuffaloBill]

 

How about we all just toughen up a little.

 

 

How is this about toughness and not respect?

 

If I call your wife, gf, daughter or niece a c.... would you not rightfully be offended? Does it make a bit of difference that my wife does it instead of me? No. The rationale applies to black use of the N word. It is a term of disrespect and is not appropriate for use in any setting.

[boyst]

 

 

How is this about toughness and not respect?

 

If I call your wife, gf, daughter or niece a c.... would you not rightfully be offended? Does it make a bit of difference that my wife does it instead of me? No. The rationale applies to black use of the N word. It is a term of disrespect and is not appropriate for use in any setting.

this is what people don't care to think about. People don't remember the whole "if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it at all."

 

Calling someone an idiot is the same as calling someonethe nword. They're both insults that are not nice. But they're still only words and they only have power when they are enabled and given meaning.