Release Tuel

[TheBrownBear]

"He has no escape-ability with his feet and he will not make any plays in this aspect of the game in the NFL. Tuel does not feel pressure well and does not throw the ball well into the face of pressure."

 

I don't know. I thought he looked solid in both of these respects yesterday. The one thing they nailed is that his ball does seem to float. I can see him becoming a Kelly Holcolmb level kind of backup QB. Not starter caliber, but certainly worth keeping on the roster.

 

Also, just curious, but how would we be rating Tuel's performance today if the coaches had just taken the ball out of his hands on that goalline series and we had run the ball three times before kicking a FG to go up 13-3? Further, say TJ doesn't cough up the additional 7 and we win the game 16-9. I'm guessing we are talking about Tuel's potential and that he looked better than Thad.

Edited November 5, 2013 by TheBrownBear

[Thirty Year Fan]

Embarrassing thread.

+1

[Security]

"He has no escape-ability with his feet and he will not make any plays in this aspect of the game in the NFL. Tuel does not feel pressure well and does not throw the ball well into the face of pressure."

 

I don't know. I thought he looked solid in both of these respects yesterday. The one thing they nailed is that his ball does seem to float. I can see him becoming a Kelly Holcolmb level kind of backup QB. Not starter caliber, but certainly worth keeping on the roster.

 

People underrate Holcombe.IMO. He was a desired backup QB for a good amount of time, so much, that he actually was a part of 2 NFL trades.

 

I never see Tuel being that desired of a commodity.

[thewildrabbit]

The front office brought in Legursky to replace Colin Brown in camp. Legursky got hurt and missed the first few games. Legursky got healthy and Brown was immediately released. Your sequence of events with the Colin Brown argument is just wrong. It was when you were citing Rinehart and once again you failed to tell whole story in this thread.

 

Our coaching staff didn't think Tuel was ready to start either, which is why he was 3rd string until injuries forced him up the depth chart. And when he became the defacto starter a guy from the practice squad leap frogged him into the starting role. Does that sound like a coaching staff that believes Tuel is the answer at QB?

 

 

 

Notice any overlap? Notice the name Tuel on that list? The combine argument is pretty much worthless. Tuel played light years beyond what Barkley has shown in Philly. Tony Romo wasn't invited to the combine when he declared eligible. He seems to have caught on with a team.

I think you have it wrong as Legursky was the backup center while at Pittsburgh and started at center in replacing Pouncey in the SB. He was brought in to backup Eric Wood who is usually on IR at the end of the year. His versatility for being able to play both C & G was a big reason he was signed.

 

Colin Brown was the starting LG and David Snow was his backup. Both have since been cut.

 

Sok, keep defending Marrone / Hackett because if they keep doing the same moronic things, and losing games then they will suffer the same fate of Chan Gailey & Dick Jauron.

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/8/30/4677544/nfl-roster-cuts-2013-buffalo-bills-release-18-including-matt-leinart

 

 

What is important to understand is this coaching staff went into this season with Jeff Tuel as the ONLY backup QB on the roster. When he failed so miserably against Cleveland when EJ went down they decided to bring Thad Lewis up from the practice squad to replace him. If either EJ or Lewis had been healthy, both would have started over Tuel.

 

Tuel played reasonably well against the Chiefs considering... but then knowing the Chiefs lead the league in turnovers do you think it was a good idea to put the games in the hands of the passing game with Tuel at QB?

[mart]

I know why most everyone is killing the kid. Because we lost.

 

Stop blaming him. If the OC had called arunning play that actually worked on 3rd down, and we won the game.

 

this thread would have never come up. And if it did not work and a field goal won the game on the 4th down,

 

the dame thing would have happened praisung Tuel for managing the game and pulling out a win.

 

Everytime we are near the goal line, Jackson or whoever starts his run to the middle from 5 yards behind the

 

line. Never saw one QB sneak to move the pile.

[thewildrabbit]

I know why most everyone is killing the kid. Because we lost.

 

Stop blaming him. If the OC had called arunning play that actually worked on 3rd down, and we won the game.

 

this thread would have never come up. And if it did not work and a field goal won the game on the 4th down,

 

the dame thing would have happened praisung Tuel for managing the game and pulling out a win.

 

Everytime we are near the goal line, Jackson or whoever starts his run to the middle from 5 yards behind the

 

line. Never saw one QB sneak to move the pile.

This is exactly right

 

A 3rd down run, and if that failed, then kick a FG. The Bills would have been up by at least 10 points. The Chiefs only scored 9 points on offense all game, and those were from 3 FG's.

 

The kid is being crucified and it really wasn't his fault. It was the coaches fault for allowing him to be in that position, and then threw him under the bus because he didn't execute the play.

[Jauronimo]

I think you have it wrong as Legursky was the backup center while at Pittsburgh and started at center in replacing Pouncey in the SB. He was brought in to backup Eric Wood who is usually on IR at the end of the year. His versatility for being able to play both C & G was a big reason he was signed.

 

Colin Brown was the starting LG and David Snow was his backup. Both have since been cut.

 

Sok, keep defending Marrone / Hackett because if they keep doing the same moronic things, and losing games then they will suffer the same fate of Chan Gailey & Dick Jauron.

 

http://www.buffaloru...ng-matt-leinart

 

 

What is important to understand is this coaching staff went into this season with Jeff Tuel as the ONLY backup QB on the roster. When he failed so miserably against Cleveland when EJ went down they decided to bring Thad Lewis up from the practice squad to replace him. If either EJ or Lewis had been healthy, both would have started over Tuel.

 

Tuel played reasonably well against the Chiefs considering... but then knowing the Chiefs lead the league in turnovers do you think it was a good idea to put the games in the hands of the passing game with Tuel at QB?

What is important to understand is WHY this coaching staff went into the season with Tuel as the backup which is absent from your criticism of the coaching staff. You make it sound as if we entered camp with only two QBS and Tuel was intended to be the backup. I'm not sure if your misrepresentation of events is intentional to suit your point or simply absent minded.

 

Lets have another quick refresher. Lewis was acquired in August after Kolb went down and assigned to the PS. Leinart was signed on the same day. Should they have kept Leinart around? Were there other hot commodities available in August who also knew our system and would constitute a material upgrade over Tuel bearing in mind that EJ would be back in a few weeks? In order to criticize this coaching staff for having Tuel as a backup its incumbent upon you to demonstrate that there were better options available. Stating over and over that a 3rd stringer was promoted to backup after 2 QBs went down isn't a valid criticism as it ignores the context. In order to form a valid argument you'll need to do as I described above.

 

You continue to harp on this Colin Brown and Tuel point as if Marrone gave some personal guarantee that both were studs. You continue to criticize Marrone for personnel decisions which are the realm of the GM. You can hate on Marrone as much as you'd like, but if your arguments don't stand up or you're blaming the wrong guy, expect your opinions to be challenged.

 

Whether or not the KC game should have been put in Tuel's hands should be discussed in that thread.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Jauronimo

[dubs]

 

What is important to understand is WHY this coaching staff went into the season with Tuel as the backup which is absent from your criticism of the coaching staff. You make it sound as if we entered camp with only two QBS and Tuel was intended to be the backup. I'm not sure if your misrepresentation of events is intentional to suit your point or simply absent minded.

 

Lets have another quick refresher. Lewis was acquired in August after Kolb went down and assigned to the PS. Leinart was signed on the same day. Should they have kept Leinart around? Were there other hot commodities available in August who also knew our system and would constitute a material upgrade over Tuel bearing in mind that EJ would be back in a few weeks? In order to criticize this coaching staff for having Tuel as a backup its incumbent upon you to demonstrate that there were better options available. Stating over and over that a 3rd stringer was promoted to backup after 2 QBs went down isn't a valid criticism as it ignores the context. In order to form a valid argument you'll need to do as I described above.

 

You continue to harp on this Colin Brown and Tuel point as if Marrone gave some personal guarantee that both were studs. You continue to criticize Marrone for personnel decisions which are the realm of the GM. You can hate on Marrone as much as you'd like, but if your arguments don't stand up or you're blaming the wrong guy, expect your opinions to be challenged.

 

Whether or not the KC game should have been put in Tuel's hands should be discussed in that thread.

 

He's absolutely right in all of his points.

 

Keep Leinart or someone similar = yes

 

Tuel is terrible. Anyone watching him throw should see that. It has nothing to do with the result. He has no velocity on his passes. He puts way to much air under the ball. He consistently overthrew intermediate routes and under threw deep ones, except for the one long completion.

 

All scouting reports indicated as much prior to him coming into league.

 

He has no track record of success.

 

Just curious, what do you see in him that inspires confidence?

 

The issue I have is that the coaching staff and front office should know this and see this and never put him in that position. Ever.

Edited November 5, 2013 by dubs

[Jauronimo]

He's absolutely right in all of his points.

 

Keep Leinart or someone similar = yes

 

Tuel is terrible. Anyone watching him throw should see that. It has nothing to do with the result. He has no velocity on his passes. He puts way to much air under the ball. He consistently overthrew intermediate routes and under threw deep ones, except for the one long completion.

 

All scouting reports indicated as much prior to him coming into league.

 

He has no track record of success.

 

Just curious, what do you see in him that inspires confidence? Maybe instead of criticizing everyone else's positions why don't you try defending you're own.

I'm criticizing invalid arguments. I couldn't care less what you or Fearthelosing think of Tuel. When an opinion of Tuel becomes an indictment of Marrone, however, (instead of the guy who actually makes personnel decisions, Whaley) then I enter the conversation and request an actual argument in defense of such a claim.

 

Since you asked, heres my position:

 

Leinart's performance was putrid in his try out with the Bills and he has a track record of failure at the NFL level. He has reached his ceiling. A 3rd string QB, which is what Tuel is, should be developmental. Leinart, in my opinion, does not represent a material upgrade over Tuel. I think they're both pretty bad. We'll continue to cycle through Tuels and Levi Browns and hopefully we'll find a prospect worth really developing. I do not fault Marrone for EJ and Kolb getting injured. I don't fault Whaley for those injuries either. I don't think its some egregious offense to have a very flawed 3rd string QB on the roster. To summarize, I don't have any confidence in Tuel.

 

As much as Tuel sucks, like most 3rd string QBs in the NFL do, I take exception when someone claims that because our 3rd string QB sucks, our coach sucks. Should Belichek have been fired for having Tebow on the roster? Fearthelosing has continued his Tuel sucks therefore Marrone is unfit to coach crusade across multiple threads. It didn't make sense in the analytics thread. It doesn't make sense here.

 

Heres a scouting report.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1708384/jeff-tuel

 

I'm having trouble reconciling it with what you stated above.

[artmalibu]

You all can bag on him as much as you all want but I thought we were lucky to have him Sunday. Yes he threw a few BAD balls but lets not forget that he didnt get much help from the receivers with all the drops.

 

Lastly he is the THIRD option, how high should expectations be?

[mart]

You want to blame someone else. If you are so in love with TJ I will debate you on his talent. And finally maybe if the

 

hot dog Stevie "don!t call me Steve" Johnson would have not thrown up his hands andstood there because

 

he did not get the ball, and ran after the man, maybe he doesn!t score and we are 4-5 today.

[Prickly Pete]

The Bills haven't had competent quarterbacking for at least 15 years, and now everyone is wondering why they haven't found three!

 

Matt Leinart was just mentioned...if Leinart had started the KC game, the BIlls would never have even made the game close.

 

The cards unfolded poorly injury-wise at QB this year. The coaching staff tried a few different things that didn't work out. There weren't many options.

 

In the past we were "fortunate" and the crappy QB's usually remained uninjured, or at least they didn't have to resort to 3rd string guys. Most teams that have reached the 3rd string guy, are pretty much out of the playoff picture.

 

Get a grip.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

You all can bag on him as much as you all want but I thought we were lucky to have him Sunday. Yes he threw a few BAD balls but lets not forget that he didnt get much help from the receivers with all the drops.

 

Lastly he is the THIRD option, how high should expectations be?

 

Apparently, people thought he would be perfect. And if he wasn't perfect, he should be cut. Of course, when Thad turns the ball over 3 times each week, we should turn a blind eye.

[dubs]

 

I'm criticizing invalid arguments. I couldn't care less what you or Fearthelosing think of Tuel. When an opinion of Tuel becomes an indictment of Marrone, however, (instead of the guy who actually makes personnel decisions, Whaley) then I enter the conversation and request an actual argument in defense of such a claim.

 

Since you asked, heres my position:

 

Leinart's performance was putrid in his try out with the Bills and he has a track record of failure at the NFL level. He has reached his ceiling. A 3rd string QB, which is what Tuel is, should be developmental. Leinart, in my opinion, does not represent a material upgrade over Tuel. I think they're both pretty bad. We'll continue to cycle through Tuels and Levi Browns and hopefully we'll find a prospect worth really developing. I do not fault Marrone for EJ and Kolb getting injured. I don't fault Whaley for those injuries either. I don't think its some egregious offense to have a very flawed 3rd string QB on the roster. To summarize, I don't have any confidence in Tuel.

 

As much as Tuel sucks, like most 3rd string QBs in the NFL do, I take exception when someone claims that because our 3rd string QB sucks, our coach sucks. Should Belichek have been fired for having Tebow on the roster? Fearthelosing has continued his Tuel sucks therefore Marrone is unfit to coach crusade across multiple threads. It didn't make sense in the analytics thread. It doesn't make sense here.

 

Heres a scouting report.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1708384/jeff-tuel

 

I'm having trouble reconciling it with what you stated above.

 

Fair enough and thanks for the post. These are exactly the types of posts that facilitate an informed conversation with differing opinions.

 

Just to be clear, I'm very happy with Marrone and Whaley. I think the last few draft classes have been good and can be great. I like culture they are building.

 

The only mistake that I see and I think it's a mistake made because Marrone wants to win with this team, is putting Tuel in any game barring two QBs getting injured.

 

I can understand and think its a good idea to sign a QB each year like Tuel. You never know what can happen, as you pointed out. I just happen to believe that almost any veteran QB would be a better solution and should have been on the team. Leinart is just a name. Could be V Young, D Carr, D Garrard, B Quinn, etc.

 

Anyway, thanks again for the post and my bad if my last one sounded a little snarky.

[Leelee Phoenix]

Lastly he is the THIRD option, how high should expectations be?

Thad Lewis was the Lions FOURTH option, and he performed adequately in a game before that.

 

Bills fans are seriously desensitized to what good QBing actually is

[3rdand12]

Thad Lewis was the Lions FOURTH option, and he performed adequately in a game before that.

 

Bills fans are seriously desensitized to what good QBing actually is

That the first statement of yours i agree with !

Lol : )

[Nasty]

I think he did well on Sunday and the rookie mistakes were expected. I think that the game plan should have been more run and he shouldn't have thrown the ball 39 times but who am I. The play call on the goal line was dumb we should have run it a third time and if we didn't make it kick the FG. But Jeff did well I thought . His receivers didn't help much by dropping 6 balls.

[DCBongo]

He played better than Thad? How do you get there?

 

I think Tuel was more willing to go down field, and he seemed to find all the receivers. He made some bad throws, and the receivers made some heart breaking drops. Compared to Thad's last game I just think Tuel looked better. A healthy Tuel is better than a beat up Lewis. I am not saying I want him as our long term starter, but I think he is worth keeping on the roster for the time being.

[mart]

There has been so much unnecessary venom towards Tuel only because we lost and people are looking for

 

a scapegoat. Take the greatest QB in history (take your pick) and tell me he never threw picks.

 

Tell me your top QBs of all time and tell me how they did in their first start playing against the

 

top rated defense along with a inferior receiving corps. How many balls did the receivers drop-6, 7, or what.

 

Be honest about what are receivers are.

 

Stevie Johnson-playing with a injury missing practices and when healthy would only be a 2 on good teams.

Robert Woods-a rookie, another injury.

Marquise Goodwin-another rookie, another injury

Marcus Easley-another rookie. Taken out of the game when he could not catch the ball.

TJ Graham-does not even belong in the NFL, speed or not.

Scott Chandler-how many drops for him.

 

Tuel made his mistakes, but he was better than Lewis the previous week. Will he be a first team QB in the

 

NFL in years to come? Who knows? but he does not deserve the killing he is getting because we lost

 

a game we should have won. He was man enough to say it was on him (deservedly or not) whereas JJs

 

comment after the game and his fumble was"it could happen to anybody"

[dubs]

There has been so much unnecessary venom towards Tuel only because we lost and people are looking for

 

a scapegoat. Take the greatest QB in history (take your pick) and tell me he never threw picks.

 

Tell me your top QBs of all time and tell me how they did in their first start playing against the

 

top rated defense along with a inferior receiving corps. How many balls did the receivers drop-6, 7, or what.

 

Be honest about what are receivers are.

 

Stevie Johnson-playing with a injury missing practices and when healthy would only be a 2 on good teams.

Robert Woods-a rookie, another injury.

Marquise Goodwin-another rookie, another injury

Marcus Easley-another rookie. Taken out of the game when he could not catch the ball.

TJ Graham-does not even belong in the NFL, speed or not.

Scott Chandler-how many drops for him.

 

Tuel made his mistakes, but he was better than Lewis the previous week. Will he be a first team QB in the

 

NFL in years to come? Who knows? but he does not deserve the killing he is getting because we lost

 

a game we should have won. He was man enough to say it was on him (deservedly or not) whereas JJs

 

comment after the game and his fumble was"it could happen to anybody"

 

He's not getting killed cause Buffalo lost. I give him a lot of credit. He's way in over his head and didn't back down. He's getting killed because he was put into service to play and has no business being in the nfl. Kid is an arena league QB at best.