B-Man Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 More "right wing" crazies rooting for failure", I guess. Ezra Klein calls the ObamaCare launch a “failure.” And there are more failures hiding behind today’s failure: In the weeks leading up to the launch I heard some very ugly things about how the system was performing when transferring data to insurers — a necessary step if people are actually going to get insurance. I tried hard to pin the rumors down, but I could never quite nail the story, and there was a wall of official denials from the Obama administration. It was just testing, they said. They were fixing the bugs day by day. According to Bob Laszlewski, those problems aren’t resolved. They’re just not getting much attention because the health-care law’s Web sites aren’t working well enough for people to get that far in the process. MSNBC's Robert Gibbs: ‘I Hope They Fire Some People’ in Charge of ObamaCare Website You know things are going badly when you’re a Democratic President whose former press secretary turned MSNBC contributor is on national television bashing the rollout of your signature piece of legislation. On Monday, Robert Gibbs, appearing on MSNBC’s Now, said of the ObamaCare website, “I hope they fire some people that were in charge of making sure that this thing was supposed to work” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/14/hidden-message-on-obamacare-website-reportedly-warns-users-no-reasonable-expectation-to-privacy/ You have no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system Forward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Problem with that theory is the media would spin the Obamacare failure into the Republicans fault for not being willing to fix Obamacare Plus the failure is not going away, wait until tax season and everyone starts to pay the penalty for when they tried but couldn't enroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Believe me #10 is a doozey. http://www.americant...e_you_hate.html Everyone remembers Nancy Pelosi's famous words about the Affordable Care Act (ACA): "We have to pass the health care bill so that you can find out what is in it." Since January 2010, when the ACA was signed into law, we have gradually discovered what's in it. What we are finding is not what we want and certainly not what was advertised. Every expansive promise made by the president for his signature legislation has been shown to be smoke and mirrors. Though touted as healthcare reform (change for the better), the ACA is more accurately described as Obama's Act of Healthcare Exacerbation (change that makes things worse). A new study by the Pioneer Policy Institute in Massachusetts adds number 10 to the list (below) of reasons why Americans hate the ACA. 10. Now we have an addition to this list: another disingenuously titled component of the ACA called the "Cadillac Tax," which is a con, a scam in savior's clothing. The Cadillac Tax is an excise tax: one levied on the amount of business done. The ACA penalizes (taxes) insurance plans where health benefits exceed $10,200 for an individual and $27,500 for a family. If you think these are benefits needed only by billionaires and members of Congress, you haven't seen hospital bills for having a baby or removing a gallbladder, much less for heart surgery. The Cadillac Tax level of coverage applies to any profession that has robust healthcare benefits, like construction workers, teachers, police, and most public workers. Indeed, it is estimated that over half of all individuals having private, employer-provided insurance plans will be subject to this tax rather than only the "super, gold-plated Cadillac" top one percent, as asserted by the president. The Pioneer Policy Institute has calculated the average cost of the excise tax on a middle school teacher ($2,081 per year), a police patrol officer ($5,391 per year), and a small business owner ($8,690 per employee per year). Nationally, business leaders say this last is a huge damper on economic growth. The ACA excise tax is quite clearly a middle-class tax, not "Cadillac" at all, and a job-killer to boot. Dr. Seuss said, "The more that you read, the more things you will know." The more we read and learn about the ACA -- a bill that was supposed to "protect" us, that was advertised as "affordable," and that absolutely wasn't a tax -- the more things we learn to hate. (That's Dr. Seuss' least favorite word in the English language.) Read more: http://www.americant...l#ixzz2hk7tF3FG Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook Edited October 14, 2013 by 3rdnlng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The ACA penalizes (taxes) insurance plans where health benefits exceed $10,200 for an individual and $27,500 for a family. Wrong. It's "value of the plan"...which is almost universally considered the premiums paid. Or, according to some, premiums plus FSA amounts plus HSA amounts...all to dodge a 70-year old law that says employer-provided health insurance isn't subject to income tax. Which could have been far more easily and cheaply achieved by repealing the 70-year old law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Wrong. It's "value of the plan"...which is almost universally considered the premiums paid. Or, according to some, premiums plus FSA amounts plus HSA amounts...all to dodge a 70-year old law that says employer-provided health insurance isn't subject to income tax. Which could have been far more easily and cheaply achieved by repealing the 70-year old law. Stop it already with your obfuscation and confoundments. Get behind the plan. We're moving forward - at break-neck speed already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Wrong. It's "value of the plan"...which is almost universally considered the premiums paid. Or, according to some, premiums plus FSA amounts plus HSA amounts...all to dodge a 70-year old law that says employer-provided health insurance isn't subject to income tax. Which could have been far more easily and cheaply achieved by repealing the 70-year old law. How do premiums equal the value of the plan?And you're suggesting for some they will lose the pre-tax benefits of their FSA and/or HSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 How do premiums equal the value of the plan?And you're suggesting for some they will lose the pre-tax benefits of their FSA and/or HSA? I'm not suggesting anything, just sharing what I've read in several places. Everything I've read equates "value" to total premiums at least; about half of what I've read includes FSA and HSA contributions. 3rd's link is the first (and only) I've seen that equates "value" to benefits. Personally, I have no idea how the ACA says the "value" of an insurance plan should be determined. And what I would consider the authoritative source - the IRS - doesn't seem to have a definition I can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Which could have been far more easily and cheaply achieved by repealing the 70-year old law. How popular would that have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm not suggesting anything, just sharing what I've read in several places. Everything I've read equates "value" to total premiums at least; about half of what I've read includes FSA and HSA contributions. 3rd's link is the first (and only) I've seen that equates "value" to benefits. Personally, I have no idea how the ACA says the "value" of an insurance plan should be determined. And what I would consider the authoritative source - the IRS - doesn't seem to have a definition I can find. I'll be the first to admit I haven't paid much attention to the "Cadillac Plan" part of the ACA. I assumed when I saw the figures that would trigger their taxation, that those figures had to be premiums paid on an employee behalf. This guy (the author) says different and has some pretty good credentials: Deane Waldman, M.D., MBA is emeritus professor of pediatrics, pathology, and decision science; adjunct scholar a for New Mexico think-tank called the Rio Grande Foundation, and the author of Uproot US Healthcare as well as Not Right! (January 2013). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 How popular would that have been? Not at all. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/14/hidden-message-on-obamacare-website-reportedly-warns-users-no-reasonable-expectation-to-privacy/ You have no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system Forward! Very frightening. What are the odds the NSA has better access to troll the database information than the average citizen can even access the site to register. "Trust me...I'm with the government and I'm here to help" The amount of information this administration mines from citizens is Frigging terrifying. I'm sure this will run more smoothly than the IRS. I wonder if you have to declare a political party on the health insurance application! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Not at all. So? Not to speak for Gary, but I think that he was looking at it from a standpoint that making it obvious that it was a tax would make it more difficult to pass the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm sure this will run more smoothly than the IRS. I wonder if you have to declare a political party on the health insurance application! No one knows, since no one's successfully signed up for insurance yet... Not to speak for Gary, but I think that he was looking at it from a standpoint that making it obvious that it was a tax would make it more difficult to pass the bill. Which shows just how utterly !@#$ed our government is. Transparency and honesty in legislation is counter-productive now, it's better to hide **** people won't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Very frightening. What are the odds the NSA has better access to troll the database information than the average citizen can even access the site to register. "Trust me...I'm with the government and I'm here to help" The amount of information this administration mines from citizens is Frigging terrifying. I'm sure this will run more smoothly than the IRS. I wonder if you have to declare a political party on the health insurance application! Republican, eh? We'll get back to you on our policy on burst appendixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Republican, eh? We'll get back to you on our policy on burst appendixes. "Please list all the discussions you've ever had with anyone concerning health care, before we approve your coverage." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Not at all. So? So what? Not to speak for Gary, but I think that he was looking at it from a standpoint that making it obvious that it was a tax would make it more difficult to pass the bill. "Please list all the discussions you've ever had with anyone concerning health care, before we approve your coverage." And any prayers you may have said while on hold!! Edited October 15, 2013 by Gary M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm not suggesting anything, just sharing what I've read in several places. Everything I've read equates "value" to total premiums at least; about half of what I've read includes FSA and HSA contributions. 3rd's link is the first (and only) I've seen that equates "value" to benefits. Personally, I have no idea how the ACA says the "value" of an insurance plan should be determined. And what I would consider the authoritative source - the IRS - doesn't seem to have a definition I can find. Well it probably goes along with group term. The premiums your comapany pays are taxed as a benefit. Not sure where they get the term value but it is after all the government. But with the Cadillac tax is it for people who pay premiums after tax? If so that a form of double taxation which is bull ****. "Please list all the discussions you've ever had with anyone concerning health care, before we approve your coverage." Well we're all !@#$ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Well it probably goes along with group term. The premiums your comapany pays are taxed as a benefit. Not sure where they get the term value but it is after all the government. But with the Cadillac tax is it for people who pay premiums after tax? If so that a form of double taxation which is bull ****. Well we're all !@#$ed. The word value is probably a lot like the word penalty or fine or whatever it was that suddenly became the word tax. Somewhere in the 2700 page piece of crap there's probably an asterisk that says something about " Some or all words in this bill and their definitions are subject to change at any point in the future." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 HEH. ObamaCare: Best Advertisement For Libertarianism Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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