San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Oh, and there isn't a secure bone in Bruce's body, either. GO BILLS!!! True also. What he said is also true, whether or not he should have said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 You might be right. But, if Bruce Smith was allowed to head slap people, how many more LTs and LGs would be suing the NFL today due to concussions? Considering how many times Smith played the Dolphins, wouldn't Richmond Webb = Muhammad Ali? I always felt that the offensive linemen should have been allowed to head slap the defensive players. After all, it would only be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I always felt that the offensive linemen should have been allowed to head slap the defensive players. After all, it would only be fair. Mr. Dobler! How the hell are ya?! GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I always think people forget that Bruce Smith played in a 3-4 defense for most of his career. Its so much harder to rush from that position and Smith put up monster numbers from that. Reggie White and Deacon Jones put up their totals from the 4-3. Granted Smith complied numbers towards the end but his longevity is something to credit him with. Overall I think Bruce was the best all time. He played in a defense much less conducive to sacks. Jones is hard to compare to Bruce because he played in a difference era. Different types of players and rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) The NFL is an increasingly offensive biased league. That's why for me racking up more sacks than Deacon (deacon claimed he had 187.5) decades later makes Bruce clearly better. The NFL has evolved more than any other sport....you drop Bruce into Deacon's era he might have 400 sacks. Then again I'm also a firm believer that Tyson at his prime would drop Ali like a bag of dirt. No way Ali would have schooled Tyson. Too bad we will never know. Ali was a master of throwing fighters off they game. I would have liked to see Tyson and George Foreman fight in their primes. Somebody might have died in da ring for real. Oh BTW, I'm biased but I think Bruce was better than Deacon, as much as I love Deac, I think the fact Bruce played in a 3-4 made his job harder. And he still got it done. Edited June 9, 2013 by Bufcomments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/123592-i-feel-very-lucky-to-have-seen-this-guy-play-in-his-best-years/page__st__20?do=findComment&comment=2042006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 When Don Fagen writes a song about Bruce Smith, then this is worth discussing. Until then, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph W. Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 They are all HoF's so that is all that matters with these guys. As for "vs" I don't compare people from different eras since the players and the game have changed and gotten faster over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 They are all HoF's so that is all that matters with these guys. As for "vs" I don't compare people from different eras since the players and the game have changed and gotten faster over the years. Who is faster than Barry Sanders? Or Lawrence Taylor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Who really knows, it's unfair to compare athletes from different eras. First off, the athletes themselves are totally different, between the conditioning and training regiments are so far advanced today that the physical builds are apples to oranges. I will say this though, if we were comparing HOF egos Bruce would win hands down. I loved watching him play, hated hearing him talk. In all the years that I followed football I can't remember too many former players that were a bigger @$$hole than him. He was when he was playing and as evidence on the Bills' app interview of comparing himself to Deacon Jones and Reggie White he still is. Btw, as far as Ali vs Tyson I'd like to say this. Ali was pure poetry and he actually wasn't even allowed to box during his best year(s). Ali fought Frazier, who was very comparable as a boxer to Tyson, and they were epic battles but with that being said I don't think that Tyson ever fought anyone who was even remotely close to being the type of boxer that Ali was. Matter of fact the competition that these 2 boxers faced during their careers couldn't be anymore different. During Ali's time there were at least 4 or 5 serious contenders at any given time and Tyson on the other hand probably never faced 4 or 5 serious contenders during his whole career, which isn't his fault but certainly didn't hurt his display of power and knock outs. If I had to bet I'd go all in on Ali, he was that one in a lifetime (century?) boxer/athlete. Agree with all of this. Fun to discuss but hard if not impossible to draw meaningful conclusions comparing the greats of different eras. With respect to Ali/Tyson, nothing against Mike but anyone who fails to realize that Ali in his prime would have dropped him like a sack of potatoes knows nothing about the sport of pro boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph W. Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Who is faster than Barry Sanders? Or Lawrence Taylor? Speed of the game is different as a whole with every player. Don't know why you brought up titans when what I said had nothing to do with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Agree with all of this. Fun to discuss but hard if not impossible to draw meaningful conclusions comparing the greats of different eras. With respect to Ali/Tyson, nothing against Mike but anyone who fails to realize that Ali in his prime would have dropped him like a sack of potatoes knows nothing about the sport of pro boxing. Or never seen Ali box during his time. There were plenty of times where he just clowned around to keep other boxers in the fight until it was time to put them or the fight away. If he were ever really went after it from ding to dong his career/stats would be off the chain and there wouldn't even be any comparisons to Tyson or any other boxer to dispute. Ali was so good that he left more on the table than not, it's scary to even imagine just how good he could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Or never seen Ali box during his time. There were plenty of times where he just clowned around to keep other boxers in the fight until it was time to put them or the fight away. If he were ever really went after it from ding to dong his career/stats would be off the chain and there wouldn't even be any comparisons to Tyson or any other boxer to dispute. Ali was so good that he left more on the table than not, it's scary to even imagine just how good he could have been. He was so fast and quick with his hands that people forget what a great tactician he was. And they took away perhaps the best prime years of his career. So lets just settle this right now. Ali is the greatest heavyweight fighter to ever lace up a pair of gloves. Period. End of story. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Or never seen Ali box during his time. There were plenty of times where he just clowned around to keep other boxers in the fight until it was time to put them or the fight away. If he were ever really went after it from ding to dong his career/stats would be off the chain and there wouldn't even be any comparisons to Tyson or any other boxer to dispute. Ali was so good that he left more on the table than not, it's scary to even imagine just how good he could have been. I'll keep it short because not Bills related, but you're right. Short time line is likely the problem. Tyson may be the most devastating puncher in recent memory, but there were many others before him - Ernie Shavers, who was not a champion, Sonny Liston who was, George Foreman in his prime, etc...Mike also had quick hands, good footwork and technique, but he was a thug who could not fight from behind. Like most bullies he lost a lot of steam if his opponent got over his fear of him. He was a psychological front runner. Football, like boxing has an element of intimidation, but the best players are not thugs, even if some thugs are decent players, like Romanowski. Best heavyweight boxer ever? JMO, Joe Louis- M. Ali. Flip a coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Ali in his prime? Hard to say because he didn't box during 3 years of his prime however I can imagine a 15 round fight where Tyson fails to land even a single solid blow. Ali would be dancing and jabbing and Tyson would be lunging and missing. Of course there would be the rope-a-dopes when Ali would stop dancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Speed of the game is different as a whole with every player. Don't know why you brought up titans when what I said had nothing to do with them. its is?? you think todays o linemen are faster than in the 60s or 70s???---you think the bills LBs today are faster than the KC chiefs LBs of the 60s 70s??? -How about the raiders LBs from 80s?--What Bills receivers on todays teams are faster than their 70s group?? Stevie would lose a 100 yd dash to JD hIll by 5 yards. Cj would give OJ a run for his money in the 40 but be blown away in the 100.This faster game stuff is a myth. the difference is that O line now averages 320 vs 270 back then. Its todays style---but was popularized by the early 90s Cowboys. These fat o linemen are certainly very effective and I can understand why they grow them these days.But they certainly aren't faster. The other positions there is no difference in speed overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 He was so fast and quick with his hands that people forget what a great tactician he was. And they took away perhaps the best prime years of his career. So lets just settle this right now. Ali is the greatest heavyweight fighter to ever lace up a pair of gloves. Period. End of story. GO BILLS!!! Thank You Not to get off topic but Ali's prime years were taken away from him. And I don't think he would have did the "Rope -a- dope" with Mike. Mike would have broke all his ribs doing that. Ali was the greatest of All Time, in any sport ...period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I'll keep it short because not Bills related, but you're right. Short time line is likely the problem. Tyson may be the most devastating puncher in recent memory, but there were many others before him - Ernie Shavers, who was not a champion, Sonny Liston who was, George Foreman in his prime, etc...Mike also had quick hands, good footwork and technique, but he was a thug who could not fight from behind. Like most bullies he lost a lot of steam if his opponent got over his fear of him. He was a psychological front runner. Football, like boxing has an element of intimidation, but the best players are not thugs, even if some thugs are decent players, like Romanowski. Best heavyweight boxer ever? JMO, Joe Louis- M. Ali. Flip a coin. Uh oh ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Thank You Not to get off topic but Ali's prime years were taken away from him. And I don't think he would have did the "Rope -a- dope" with Mike. Mike would have broke all his ribs doing that. Ali was the greatest of All Time, in any sport ...period. So you think Tyson was a harder puncher than Foreman? I think that's a pretty hard call to make. Foreman absolutely destroyed Frazier and Norton and I'd say they were both way better than any of the chumps Tyson was knocking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 So you think Tyson was a harder puncher than Foreman? I think that's a pretty hard call to make. Foreman absolutely destroyed Frazier and Norton and I'd say they were both way better than any of the chumps Tyson was knocking out. Don't forget, someone mentioned him earlier, Ernie Shavers. The guy was a devastating puncher. Of course Joe Frazier but there were others like Kenny Norton and even Ron Lyle, that all were hard punchers but also could actually box. I would be shocked if anyone who was old enough to actually have witnessed this era of boxers and also saw Tyson's career/fights didn't think that Ali would absolutely dominate Tyson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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