Meathead Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 intents and purposes i remember talking to coy wire once and he was saying that the nfl requires all new players to go through a seminar on managing money. he said most of the guys paid absolutely no attention, joking around, playing with their cell phones, and sleeping on their desk. no surprise, he said you can pretty much tell which ones are gonna be broke and which ones arent right there. he mentioned he tried to say something to some of them at first but they looked at him like he was insane. sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 This thread is actually quite disturbing. Do some of you really take joy in others misfortunes? A lot of these guys have NO IDEA what to do with their money but I don't think that it is "hilarious" that they lost it. I don't take joy in it. But I also have absolutely no sympathy for any of these guys. All of them know that their uncle and their bddies are not money managers, but they leave their money with them anyway. These guys play a kids game for money--lots of money. When they blow it on materials and end up broke, it is no cause for sadness. In the real world of real bad things happening to people, these are the absolute least sympathetic characters imaginable. Listen to Rod Smith and tell me why I should give 2 ***** about any of these guys who intentionally pissed away a fortune (http://www.forbes.co...-the-game-ends/) "I had a motto that I lived by, ‘There are two places I want to look good at: home and practice.’ Most guys get caught up in looking good on the streets. If you have to show people you have money, you’re not rich,” " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 No sympathy here. Even if these players decided not to "invest" the money (sticking it all in a non-interest checking account, under their mattress), they would have been 1000x better off. You would also think the NFL should retain a stable of approved financial advisers the players could use if they chose. And also send out a memo stating that a restaurant/night club/sports bar is most always destined to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 intents and purposes He also said "low self of steam." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 What kills me is this….. During their career when those players are making their millions, half the time they are barely spending any of their own money. Every away game their flights, food, and accommodations are paid for. CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) He also said "low self of steam." I could care less - Just because his self of steam is lacking doesn't mean he shouldn't be taught correct English. Edited April 8, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) $85,000.00 car.you take that 85 grand put in some low interest cd for 30 years your return will be about $750,000.00. That's what theses players do not get. There are probably a good number of folks (both professional athletes and people reading these forums) who would rather spend their money injudiciously, being able to do whatever they want - spend, vacation, stock-pile ass in every conceivable zipcode, spend some more, blow rails, X out, buy rounds of Louis "trey," put smiles on their loved one's faces, bang 3 more smokin hot broads at the same time, make it rain in the club, be constantly pursued by women who want you to GGG them because you'll blow stacks on red bottoms, drive Murcielagos at reckless speeds while being "attended to," throw more parties, get your crew laid, party some more - almost every day for 10 consecutive years as opposed to... live modestly and comfortably and primarily enjoy the fruits of your labor at 60ish when you could POSSIBLY not be as.........virile. Seriously...I think there are quite a few broke athletes who would probably say that they wouldn't trade the last 10 years for anything. Edited April 8, 2013 by Juror#8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 For the players who lost everything through investments, I blame hubris. Instead of trusting your money with responsible people/firms, they believe they, or their friends, can manage wealth best. I have no sympathy for people foolish enough to trust swindlers with their money. There are plenty of reputable, high-yield places to invest your money if you have a lot of capital. Where would you suggest to invest with reputable high yield firms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Where would you suggest to invest with reputable high yield firms? It's not that hard to find p.e./v.c. funds in the top 25 percentile (7-9% IRR) that require 250k+ in capital. As for mutual funds, PIMCO Total Return/Dynamic Income have been pretty consistently successful. Any legitimate private banking service- Citi, JP Morgan, etc. would point these players that way in a second. Of course, that would require them to invest 50-75% of their assets into 5-year plus investments that they don't control, which might be too much for their egos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) There are probably a good number of folks (both professional athletes and people reading these forums) who would rather spend their money injudiciously, being able to do whatever they want - spend, vacation, stock-pile ass in every conceivable zipcode, spend some more, blow rails, X out, buy rounds of Louis "trey," put smiles on their loved one's faces, bang 3 more smokin hot broads at the same time, make it rain in the club, be constantly pursued by women who want you to GGG them because you'll blow stacks on red bottoms, drive Murcielagos at reckless speeds while being "attended to," throw more parties, get your crew laid, party some more - almost every day for 10 consecutive years as opposed to... live modestly and comfortably and primarily enjoy the fruits of your labor at 60ish when you could POSSIBLY not be as.........virile. Seriously...I think there are quite a few broke athletes who would probably say that they wouldn't trade the last 10 years for anything. that i dont doubt. especially when they think they might not be walking, or could be a total disaster with regards to health by the time they retire. plenty of people live this life every day. though for the 50mil guys, you wouldnt have to exactly be frugal or modest to avoid bankruptcy. just make 1-2 reasonable choices with modest percentages of that payout. Edited April 8, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I'm very surprised that financial management education isn't mandatory for professional athletes. Mandated by the players unions. When athletes fail financially, it probably effects the union... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I'm very surprised that financial management education isn't mandatory for professional athletes. Mandated by the players unions. When athletes fail financially, it probably effects the union... I think that you make a really good point. The leagues are starting to give financial advice and such as they do these rookie seminars. It would be wise if the league even had their own staff of financial professionals that they could steer these players too. I understand the potential for a conflict of interest but it may ultimately be in the players best interest to have some guidance as to where to invest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I'm very surprised that financial management education isn't mandatory for professional athletes. Mandated by the players unions. When athletes fail financially, it probably effects the union... it is - and some probably take it very serious... but you cant force someone to make good choices and a lot of these kids have been making poor choices about investing in their futures for years. the fact that they got away with them and are now rich only feeds that terrible cycle in a lot of cases i bet. everyone told me to pay attention in school but i didnt much care and now i can buy and sell those teachers everyone is telling me not to give money to this TERRIBLE investment, but ill show them, im different. im a star. its a layered and complex problem. giving these guys as many opportunities as possible to get it beat into their heads, whether its classes, scared straight style lectures, trying to get early intervention into youth leagues for basic education... all you can do is give resources and hope you save a couple of the boneheads, but some are going to be hardwired for failure and these stories wont stop (especially if you arent getting your hands on them until they are in their 20s) - just try to minimize those stories... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) I think that you make a really good point. The leagues are starting to give financial advice and such as they do these rookie seminars. It would be wise if the league even had their own staff of financial professionals that they could steer these players too. I understand the potential for a conflict of interest but it may ultimately be in the players best interest to have some guidance as to where to invest. Personally, I think it'd be in the league's best interest. Think about if the players are successful after their careers, and they could re-invest back into the league. Instead of dudes going bankrupt, they could be working with financial groups to take ownership of teams, open businesses around the stadiums, invest in communities they played for, etc. All of that would help the league as a whole, not just in the feel-good way, but also in the form of profits, and we all know Goodell likes profits. Edited April 8, 2013 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) It's not that hard to find p.e./v.c. funds in the top 25 percentile (7-9% IRR) that require 250k+ in capital. As for mutual funds, PIMCO Total Return/Dynamic Income have been pretty consistently successful. Any legitimate private banking service- Citi, JP Morgan, etc. would point these players that way in a second. Of course, that would require them to invest 50-75% of their assets into 5-year plus investments that they don't control, which might be too much for their egos... id guess that may as well be spoken in greek to a wide majority of these kids and it would mean the same thing to them. does the nfl/nflpa carry an endorsement list for financial managers? i know that would also be rife with issues too (ive heard about the issues with agent certification in the past) but.... a simple "if you do nothing else, just call one of these guys to help" would probably be the most effective thing you could do. Edited April 8, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 It's not that hard to find p.e./v.c. funds in the top 25 percentile (7-9% IRR) that require 250k+ in capital. As for mutual funds, PIMCO Total Return/Dynamic Income have been pretty consistently successful. Any legitimate private banking service- Citi, JP Morgan, etc. would point these players that way in a second. Of course, that would require them to invest 50-75% of their assets into 5-year plus investments that they don't control, which might be too much for their egos... JP Morgan has been doing very well for me. Do you see a big market correction looming? Or do you think we are going to set a new baseline at a new high mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 id guess that may as well be spoken in greek to a wide majority of these kids and it would mean the same thing to them. does the nfl/nflpa carry an endorsement list for financial managers? i know that would also be ripe for issues too (ive heard about the issues with agent certification in the past) but.... a simple "if you do nothing else, just call one of these guys to help" would probably be the most effective thing you could do. https://www.nflplayers.com/About-us/FAQs/Financial-Advisor-FAQs/ The answer is yes; the NFL has set requirements for registered financial advisors. The program is mandatory for agents, but optional for financial advisors. You can't, of course, force players to use a specific asset manager/financial advisor, but this program is likely helpful. As many people have noted in this thread, the desire to "blow money" and a sense of hubris when it comes to investment are usually what drives these guys to bankruptcy. Poor financial advice/theft can hurt you, sure, but it's far easier to burn through money by spending it irresponsibly or by deciding that your car dealerships/casino/real estate in Jacksonville. It takes some restraint to accept the fact that Blackstone/PIMCO/your private banker can do a better job than you with your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) https://www.nflplayers.com/About-us/FAQs/Financial-Advisor-FAQs/ The answer is yes; the NFL has set requirements for registered financial advisors. The program is mandatory for agents, but optional for financial advisors. You can't, of course, force players to use a specific asset manager/financial advisor, but this program is likely helpful. As many people have noted in this thread, the desire to "blow money" and a sense of hubris when it comes to investment are usually what drives these guys to bankruptcy. Poor financial advice/theft can hurt you, sure, but it's far easier to burn through money by spending it irresponsibly or by deciding that your car dealerships/casino/real estate in Jacksonville. It takes some restraint to accept the fact that Blackstone/PIMCO/your private banker can do a better job than you with your money. i figured there was, but i didnt remember its setup or any feedback. and yup, second half is very true - in the end the problems these guys face are wide ranging. some are smart guys making a couple big choices that are dumb, some are good ideas gone bad, some are dumb guys that would like to do well, some as was pointed out just dont care about 50 and would rather live the fast life now and others think the money will be flowing a lot longer then it really does. your often pulling guys from poor backgrounds, theres an inherent risk taking nature to a guy that is willing to run into another 300 lbs dude at full speed.... a bad recipe from the get go for many. just a few basic tricks would help if they would listen though. ultimately you cant force someone to live in a way you would consider right or responsible. just give them the resources that you can to hopefully make wise choices for themselves. Edited April 8, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 JP Morgan has been doing very well for me. Do you see a big market correction looming? Or do you think we are going to set a new baseline at a new high mark? I tend to agree with Stanley Druckenmiller and a few other investment professionals who now manage only their own money, rather than clients'/the public's, and hence are slightly more likely to give their honest opinions to journalists. Druckenmiller, as of last month http://seekingalpha.com/article/1262501-are-equity-markets-setting-up-for-a-meaningful-correction?source=google_news) was relatively bullish, but still wasn't that optimistic. The unfortunate reality is that it is far easier to make money if you have money, though that, of course, requires investing most of your assets with professionals, as most athletes seem loath to do. Most new funds from highly successful P.E./V.C. firms require 250k-1m, minimum, for a reasonable expectation of a 7-9% return, which is far out of reach for most people, and which most investors wouldn't recommend doing unless one's net worth is significantly greater than that amount; that puts such investments out of reach for most three-year NFL players. I don't trust funds like Red Rocks Capital, which has simply, and lazily, indexed public P.E. firms and is attempting to pass it off as a legitimate way to invest directly in private equity. The benefits of investing in shares of these funds isn't even close to what one risks/stands to gain by investing directly in a new fund. While Powershares has been a successful fund, Red Rocks has crashed and burned before. Either way, there are countless decent investments for NFL players to make, yet most tend to trust their own abilities over professionals with strong track records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Seriously how much of America has been underwater on adjustable rate mortgage homes that they never should have bought, or are paying off ridiculous credit debts for cars, fancy clothes etc. Athletes do not have a monopoly of financial stupidity they just have more money to mismanage. How many 21 year olds from usually not well educated homes know that their uncle isn't qualified to manage the money. I am not sure at that age I would have known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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