#34fan Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Regardless of color if a kid never applied himself in school he's not going to start after one pep talk. If the habit isn't set early in life it's not going to happen later. PTR I don't think a little life-choice instruction is out of order considering the revenue of the larger programs ... I think it should be a part of team-building, and even practices. Watching kids get shot, stabbed, locked-up, or otherwise RUINED every summer is getting old. -Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 First off, your guessing that "they are black" when the title already says they are football players on Alabama isnt really going out on any sociological limb there. Now with regard to the bold... So what do you want us to do about it? Am I supposed to walk into the Atlanta Public High School down my street tomorrow and announce "Attention Black People! I acknowledge the criminal influence poisoning your culture, and Im here to say that I am not going to let it happen!!"? Im all for helping, but Im not sure how some white people are supposed to fix another culture. Cultures need to be changed from the inside. Im open to suggestions. I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 ive spent literally decades pondering and researching this topic (race related social issues). i cant change all your programming in a couple posts but i can give you a hint: trevon martin is partially responsible for his own death and we arent doing anybody especially young black males any good by ignoring that reality theres no doubt a guy like zimmerman should go to jail for manslaughter, but treyvon contributed directly to his own death by making the decision to be a badass and attack someone who was harrassing him. that was a bad decision that was made due to a combination of factors, including the desire to be a gangsta and the decision to wear a hoodie. if you go into the ghetto you will see signs in the businesses saying 'no hoodies' bc criminals wear hoodies to hide their identity, thus black folks rightfully find them menacing. so by wearing his hoodie treyvon knew full well what statement he was making, and his actions after that showed what his self-image intentions were. somehow, in what is actually a shocking and very damaging phenomenon of mass denial, we refuse to hold him and others with his thought pattern responsible. if you want to know more and start to educate yourself about this phenomenon, read Shelby Steeles book White Guilt. if youre interested i can provide you with others treyvon certainly didnt deserve to die for those mistakes, but he is not guiltless in his demise. by ignoring that reality we are actively enabling young brothers like these to continue with their poor thought systems by giving them the belief that its ok. we (all of us of all colors) need to actively discourage these thought systems. my black friends have educated me that there are different definitions of gangsta, one side that includes being mentally tough, taking care of your family, and watching out for others. then there is the far more popular vesion that we all know and should hate. but the conditioning is so strong, the cultural reinforcement so steady, the ones on the bad side have no idea what youre talking about when you try to tell them about the good side, they see the same references and always associate it with being disrespectful, selfish, and violent. its like they cant even hear you become educated. reject the bad gangsta culture and promote the good one. dont let your friends/kids even for a moment think that any part of that whole violent tough guy subculture is at all acceptable. dont buy any products, dont sing the songs, dont watch the movies, and speak out against all of it when you see it. you will have to risk being called racist, and you will be, to do this. dont back down, be brave, be vocal, be right. just please for the love of god and all our black brothers and sisters, dont remain silent and pretend it doesnt exist or it isnt a factor in the horrific freqency of blacks suffering and dying american history is full of terrible crimes against people of color, and there was a time when residual white guilt over that was probably proper. those days are over. in reality, that was not a symptom of color but a symptom of general human dysfunction. it was never really a black vs white thing, it was always a human vs human thing. whites need to be brave enough to finally overcome their guilt, stop squelching dialog simply bc its uncomfortable, and engage our communities of color to help them find solutions to problems like these. its past time but most of us havent even started start today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 some great posts in here. for some of us younger folks i think you might agree, but i can speak for myself and say that i can care less about someone's religion, ethnicity, sexuality, skill color, etc. people are people and i think our generation realizes that more than maybe any other time in history. hopefully this leads to more freely open discussions on these sorts of topics in the future. right now though there are too many older folks that remember what it "used to be like" that when the topic of race comes up it gets very heated. a white person can't say anything about a black person without being deemed a racist so we keep our mouths shut (perhaps the white guilt that meathead is referring to). luckily our generation realizes if you are a dirtbag then you are a dirtbag and it doesn't matter if you are white, black, asian, spanish, whatever. there's definitely a problem in the black community with wanna-be gangstas and glorifying that kind of lifestyle vs being an upstanding human being and getting a normal 9-5 job and raising a family. in their eyes it's better to get quick money stealing, selling drugs, being a rapper or an athlete and rolling on dubbz and bling blinging. until we can discuss these issues openly and honestly then things aren't going to change unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Bama isnt UGA, and Saban is no Mark Richt. Id be surprised to see these kids playing for the Tide next year. I strongly agree. Saban is going to make an example out of them, and other players will notice. Then he will win without these criminals. ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Williams said the group committed a second robbery where he punched the victim in the face while Pettway and Hayes watched. Williams stole the victim’s wallet and used the student identification card to buy snacks from the vending machine in the football player’s dorm. This for real? Not only should they be suspended from the team, they should get kicked out of the place that calls itself a university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I strongly agree. Saban is going to make an example out of them, and other players will notice. Then he will win without these criminals. ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yep, but it wont even need to be Saban at this point. He suspended them from the team right away. Since their actions are criminal enough to get anyone kicked out of school, the University will take it from here and they'll be expelled. Bama will move on and keep winning without them. And that will be that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Yep, but it wont even need to be Saban at this point. He suspended them from the team right away. Since their actions are criminal enough to get anyone kicked out of school, the University will take it from here and they'll be expelled. Bama will move on and keep winning without them. And that will be that. Expelled? They should be in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Expelled? They should be in jail. That isnt for the University to determine. All Saban can do is suspend them from the team. All the University can do is expel them. The Police/Courts will need to do the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 i am very interested! great post btw ive spent literally decades pondering and researching this topic (race related social issues). i cant change all your programming in a couple posts but i can give you a hint: trevon martin is partially responsible for his own death and we arent doing anybody especially young black males any good by ignoring that reality theres no doubt a guy like zimmerman should go to jail for manslaughter, but treyvon contributed directly to his own death by making the decision to be a badass and attack someone who was harrassing him. that was a bad decision that was made due to a combination of factors, including the desire to be a gangsta and the decision to wear a hoodie. if you go into the ghetto you will see signs in the businesses saying 'no hoodies' bc criminals wear hoodies to hide their identity, thus black folks rightfully find them menacing. so by wearing his hoodie treyvon knew full well what statement he was making, and his actions after that showed what his self-image intentions were. somehow, in what is actually a shocking and very damaging phenomenon of mass denial, we refuse to hold him and others with his thought pattern responsible. if you want to know more and start to educate yourself about this phenomenon, read Shelby Steeles book White Guilt. if youre interested i can provide you with others treyvon certainly didnt deserve to die for those mistakes, but he is not guiltless in his demise. by ignoring that reality we are actively enabling young brothers like these to continue with their poor thought systems by giving them the belief that its ok. we (all of us of all colors) need to actively discourage these thought systems. my black friends have educated me that there are different definitions of gangsta, one side that includes being mentally tough, taking care of your family, and watching out for others. then there is the far more popular vesion that we all know and should hate. but the conditioning is so strong, the cultural reinforcement so steady, the ones on the bad side have no idea what youre talking about when you try to tell them about the good side, they see the same references and always associate it with being disrespectful, selfish, and violent. its like they cant even hear you become educated. reject the bad gangsta culture and promote the good one. dont let your friends/kids even for a moment think that any part of that whole violent tough guy subculture is at all acceptable. dont buy any products, dont sing the songs, dont watch the movies, and speak out against all of it when you see it. you will have to risk being called racist, and you will be, to do this. dont back down, be brave, be vocal, be right. just please for the love of god and all our black brothers and sisters, dont remain silent and pretend it doesnt exist or it isnt a factor in the horrific freqency of blacks suffering and dying american history is full of terrible crimes against people of color, and there was a time when residual white guilt over that was probably proper. those days are over. in reality, that was not a symptom of color but a symptom of general human dysfunction. it was never really a black vs white thing, it was always a human vs human thing. whites need to be brave enough to finally overcome their guilt, stop squelching dialog simply bc its uncomfortable, and engage our communities of color to help them find solutions to problems like these. its past time but most of us havent even started start today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 If you want to know more and start to educate yourself about this phenomenon, read Shelby Steele's book White Guilt. if youre interested i can provide you with others. I am educated. By the way, this Shelby Steele guy. Is this Danielle Steele's husband? If so they are a very literate family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yep, but it wont even need to be Saban at this point. He suspended them from the team right away. Since their actions are criminal enough to get anyone kicked out of school, the University will take it from here and they'll be expelled. Bama will move on and keep winning without them. And that will be that. And here we go... http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8995334/four-alabama-crimson-tide-players-arrested-no-longer-associated-team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share Posted February 27, 2013 Four newly inducted career felons. Just what the state of Alabama needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 So stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 So stupid. Indeed. I can't help but wonder - with what sense of entitlement were these guys treated at 'Bama and previously that they thought this wouldn't bite them on the a**? Was someone following them through the halls of their HS sweeping up their sh** and making their excuses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) ive spent literally decades pondering and researching this topic (race related social issues). i cant change all your programming in a couple posts but i can give you a hint: trevon martin is partially responsible for his own death and we arent doing anybody especially young black males any good by ignoring that reality theres no doubt a guy like zimmerman should go to jail for manslaughter, but treyvon contributed directly to his own death by making the decision to be a badass and attack someone who was harrassing him. that was a bad decision that was made due to a combination of factors, including the desire to be a gangsta and the decision to wear a hoodie. if you go into the ghetto you will see signs in the businesses saying 'no hoodies' bc criminals wear hoodies to hide their identity Whoa, a lot to digest here. I think I'll say that as far as I know, jury selection has yet to take place and the case has yet to be tried; Zimmerman claims he was attacked, the prosecution claims contrary evidence and some assessments of surveillance films and 911 calls say no or are ambiguous. I think choosing a case where the facts have yet to be established beyond a reasonable doubt (and may never be) is a poor example. If Treyvon in fact attacked Zimmerman, I agree he is partly responsible for his own death, but I think the fact that so many find it entirely plausible that Treyvon was walking on minding his own business being followed and then confronted by a gun wielding vigilante, says something powerful about the actual state of our culture. I'm with you that gangsta culture is causing a lot of problems for young black men from unreal mortality rates to unreal incarceration rates to just plain failure to thrive and there are plenty of cases that are not ambiguous at all - our 4 'Bama players and their stupid thug entitled behavior being Exhibit A.. I see you and Geraldo Rivera are aligned on the hoodie issue. Is no hoodies really a safety issue or is it more like no saggin, no do-rags in malls? To me this sounds a lot like saying a woman wore a provocative outfit she was asking for it. Or a certain denomination/belief set of fundamentalist Christians telling me my tween daughter is "inciting lust" by her dress. Um, no, she's wearing appropriate clothing to mind her own business/go about her own activities (a training run wearing standard running shorts and a light jacket), the lust is in the eye of the beholder and is the beholder's business to manage, and I think the Bible tells us something about offensive eyes, left, how to dispose. Not aligned myself on the hoodie; when we tag people with responsibility for other people's feelings/behavior based upon dress that's a slippery road. I googled Shelby Steele and read some of his articles. He has some excellent points, among the most salient that people of other cultures, who have been strongly discriminated against, have been successful because they drive themselves and drive their kids and expect success. It's very telling to me that of the black people I work with, successful to very successful, only one was raised in America. The rest grew up in Africa and came to America for higher education. The culture was different, the family expectations were different and the outcome is different. I find him less persuasive on the thesis that the time for affirmative action is past. I live in a city that is practically very segregated, the schools are practically speaking segregated, and they "have" or "have not" very strongly linked to socioeconomic status which is very strongly linked to race. It's no question that these kids aren't getting a fair shake, though could they be doing more with the shake they have, undoubtedly in some cases. It's no question that law enforcement in many instances is still prejudiced, mine own eyes have beheld and not as a stranger. To your point and his, though what is very clear to me is that all the programs designed by well-meaning folks to help, have made a total balls-up and not accomplished too much. So I'm unclear on what white people, practically, can do to change black gangsta culture. It seems like a cultural change has to come from within, blacks who have made it saying "this is not OK, and saying so doesn't make me Uncle Tom". I suspect someone will come along and sweep this "Off the Wall" and I likely won't follow, but thanks for an interesting post and interesting points! Edited February 28, 2013 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I suspect someone will come along and sweep this "Off the Wall" and I likely won't follow, but thanks for an interesting post and interesting points! Even worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Looks like these kids thought they were doing Saban a favor by being in his program. Stars from all walks of life feel like they can get away with more... from Lindsay lohan to Charlie Sheen... I think background plays a role in that these kids need more behavioral options than the ones presented them by 'lil Wayne,and Jay Z... Often, the parents are only interested in cashing-in on their kid's talents. That's why I'd like to see some earnest mentorship by these big money college programs. Edited February 28, 2013 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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