How much talent do the Bills actually have?

[Best Player Available]

If all these Bills players mentioned are so good. Now come the Bills don't even get one of them placed as even a pro bowl alternate? KC put 5 players in the pro bowl. Calling the event a popularity contest doesn't count. Bills fans perceptions maybe are a little unrealistic in saying the team is "loaded" with talent. A look at their AFCE record says otherwise. Winning just ONE game against a winning team in Gailey's tenure speaks volumes.

[Dorkington]

IMO, we need:

 

- QB 1, QB 2

- RB 2, RB 3 (Assuming FJ isn't FJ of 2011)

- WR 2, 3, 4 (I'm not really happy with any of our talent there. If Nelson comes back and regains form, I'll lower it to WR 2, 4)

- TE 1? 2 (We need a more relevant threat at the position)

- OL Depth in general, possibly a Guard or two

- LB (We need a whole sale change here, Barnett is decent, but getting older, everyone else stinks)

- CB 2, 3 (No talent outside of Gilmore, and Gilmore isn't even that good)

- SS (Wilson's over the hill, even if he's a good lockeroom guy)

- K/P - Both our kicker and our punter could be improved

 

Only area I think we are set? Defensive Line.

[metzelaars_lives]

If all these Bills players mentioned are so good. Now come the Bills don't even get one of them placed as even a pro bowl alternate? KC put 5 players in the pro bowl. Calling the event a popularity contest doesn't count. Bills fans perceptions maybe are a little unrealistic in saying the team is "loaded" with talent. A look at their AFCE record says otherwise. Winning just ONE game against a winning team in Gailey's tenure speaks volumes.

 

I don't know what to tell ya. If you think Ray Rice had a better season than CJ Spiller, then, well, to each their own I suppose. He had more yards on way less carries! If you think Jairus Byrd wasn't one of the two best free safeties in the AFC this year despite the fact he was voted as such by the fans, well, OK. If you think Andy Levitre and Eric Wood were not two of the best at their positions this year, then you do not read pro football focus, that's for sure. The Bills are the most irrelevant team in the National Football League. They are the Siberia of the league. We laugh at the Browns and the Lions, but we are a notch below them. This is what Marrone is here to change. Do you really think if Spiller was on the Jets he wouldn't have made the Pro Bowl?

[CarolinaBill]

Do you realize that every team is comprised of the top 1% of players on the planet. Every team has talent. Its COACHING & EXECUTION that make the difference. We need a quality QB, obviously, but the rest of our problems are schematic not in personnel.

 

[Dorkington]

I don't know what to tell ya. If you think Ray Rice had a better season than CJ Spiller, then, well, to each their own I suppose. He had more yards on way less carries! If you think Jairus Byrd wasn't one of the two best free safeties in the AFC this year despite the fact he was voted as such by the fans, well, OK. If you think Andy Levitre and Eric Wood were not two of the best at their positions this year, then you do not read pro football focus, that's for sure. The Bills are the most irrelevant team in the National Football League. They are the Siberia of the league. We laugh at the Browns and the Lions, but we are a notch below them. This is what Marrone is here to change. Do you really think if Spiller was on the Jets he wouldn't have made the Pro Bowl?

CJ had too inconsistent of a year.

 

Yes, that's Chan's fault. But it's the facts.

[metzelaars_lives]

IMO, we need:

 

- QB 1, QB 2

- RB 2, RB 3 (Assuming FJ isn't FJ of 2011)

- WR 2, 3, 4 (I'm not really happy with any of our talent there. If Nelson comes back and regains form, I'll lower it to WR 2, 4)

- TE 1? 2 (We need a more relevant threat at the position)

- OL Depth in general, possibly a Guard or two

- LB (We need a whole sale change here, Barnett is decent, but getting older, everyone else stinks)

- CB 2, 3 (No talent outside of Gilmore, and Gilmore isn't even that good)

- SS (Wilson's over the hill, even if he's a good lockeroom guy)

- K/P - Both our kicker and our punter could be improved

 

Only area I think we are set? Defensive Line.

 

I don't disagree with most of what you wrote, but assuming we re-sign our guys, you're not satisfied with Hairston, Zebrie Sanders and Rinehart for depth on the OL? Our OL is a stronger suit than our DL.

[Dorkington]

I don't disagree with most of what you wrote, but assuming we re-sign our guys, you're not satisfied with Hairston, Zebrie Sanders and Rinehart for depth on the OL? Our OL is a stronger suit than our DL.

 

Considering the injuries we get at the position, and the fact that we can't pass block for longer than three seconds. I see issues there. They are very mobile, so they work great for the running game design over the last three years. But the sack numbers, imo, are due to the quick release passing game more than anything.

[metzelaars_lives]

CJ had too inconsistent of a year.

 

Yes, that's Chan's fault. But it's the facts.

 

The discussion was why no Bills made the Pro Bowl. Again, he had more yards on way less carries than Ray Rice. Baltimore fans are discovering that Ray Rice may not even be the best RB on his own team. In any other market, Spiller is a pro-bowler this season, period.

Edited January 8, 2013 by metzelaars_lives

[Dorkington]

The discussion was why no Bills made the Pro Bowl. Again, he had more yards on way less carries than Ray Rice. Baltimore fans are discovering that Ray Rice may not even be the best RB on his own team. In any other market, Spiller is a pro-bowler this season, period.

 

In any other market, he'd have a different coach who would use him for more than 6 games a year. CJ wasn't a story most weeks, that's what I'm getting at. Most people recognize Rice as a solid every week performer. I agree that CJ in certain ways had a better year on paper, but you can't expect a player to get to the probowl if they aren't super popular, and aren't seeing the field in a consistent fashion.

 

I'm not arguing his talent. I'm arguing about his impact. He didn't provide a consistent impact, and he's not an established player. So he's not going to get a load of votes.

 

But really, we're nitpicking here. The Bills had zero pro-bowlers for a reason, and that was due to their performances as a whole this year. We don't have any "stars", but we do have some good players, and a whole load of bad players.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Dorkington

[nedboy7]

so much whining.

[mountainwampus]

...And we have a hole at RDE because Kyle Moore is one of the poorest run defenders I've seen at the position in a while.

 

 

I gotta disagree with this. I think he made all the difference on the D-line and gave the defense their first respectable performances against the run. Maybe you didn't notice, but he has BLOWN UP numerous plays. He doesn't get many stats but he's making a huge impact. If you compare yards allowed per game between games Moore started vs the record setting yards allowed vs Pats and 49ers with Kelsay/Anderson at RDE. The run D practically went from worst to first.

[GibranHamdansGhost]

The Bills don't have any real talent. C.J. Spiller is a nice player, but he proved in the game at Miami at the end of the year that he can't win games on his own. Stevie Johnson is a serviceable receiver, but his statistics are a bit inflated because the Bills throw the ball a ton and they don't have any other receivers. The offenisive line isn't terrible, but if a team doesn't abandon the pass rush like Seattle didn't, Fitpatrick is toast. Stepfon Gilmore got smoked most of the season and his pass interference call on Reggie Wayne sealed the Colts game for Indianapolis. This team has a lot of rebuilding to do.

[ganesh]

the roster is the evidence, jim.

aside from QB we have guys at every position that are quality players, we need better lbs, some wr depth, and a Qb.

spiller, johnson, graham, chandler, wood, urbik, levitre, glenn, mario, anderson, dareus, kw, byrd, searcy, gilmore, brooks, and young guys like shep and bradham are still developing. thats a great group of relatively young talent.

 

List of current Bills players who can start on any of the other 31 NFL teams.

 

1. C.J. Spiller.

2. Stevie Johnson

3. Scott Chandler

4. Levitre

5. Wood

6. Cordy Glenn

 

That is 6 out of 11 starters.

 

On Defense:

1. Mario Williams

2. Kyle Williams

3, Dareus Marcel

4. Gilmore

5. Byrd

 

Special Teams:

1. Ryan Lindell

2. McKelvin

 

That is 13 players out of 25 positions. We are about 50% talented roster in the NFL. The good teams are trending probably towards 75-80% and that is the difference. We sorely lack a starting QB, RT, WR on offense and the entire LB crew and a 2nd CB and a Strong Saftey to be successful.

 

Another issue is that our role players have not come through. That is a big difference with the successful teams.

Edited January 8, 2013 by ganesh

[BuffaloBill]

This is a QB driven league and the Bills do not have one. There is also nobody in this upcoming draft that is a lock at the position. If Marrone and tithe Bills do not address the answer to this puzzle his term will be as productive as the coaches who followed Wade.

[Best Player Available]

I don't know what to tell ya. If you think Ray Rice had a better season than CJ Spiller, then, well, to each their own I suppose. He had more yards on way less carries! If you think Jairus Byrd wasn't one of the two best free safeties in the AFC this year despite the fact he was voted as such by the fans, well, OK. If you think Andy Levitre and Eric Wood were not two of the best at their positions this year, then you do not read pro football focus, that's for sure. The Bills are the most irrelevant team in the National Football League. They are the Siberia of the league. We laugh at the Browns and the Lions, but we are a notch below them. This is what Marrone is here to change. Do you really think if Spiller was on the Jets he wouldn't have made the Pro Bowl?

Your cherry picking obvious players here. Levitre and wood have got zero honors. Do they suck? NO. I put them as above average serviceable lineman. Not great though. Hard to tell how good the pass protection is, since Fritz unloads in 2 seconds on most plays.

Players also vote for the pro bowl(or used to?) I don't deny talent. But saying the team is loaded is way over the line. So now that the entire coaching staff has earned their unemployment, we can now blame it on scheme? IMO we have one wide receiver SJ13. The rest would be 3rd stringers on good playoff teams. Guys like Ruvell Martin, Merriman wouldn't have even been in the league if not for Gailey and Nix.

In all the decades of suck, I have to put 2012 as one of the worst. Because of expectations. Sure the coaches effed it up. But I blame the GM even more for not getting the talent here via the draft like he promised. Bills depth? Well, those guys were drafted as starters

As for Spiller on the Jets being a pro bowler. Give me a break KC is not a team unlike the bills. They suck even more. Yet, they had players voted in. BTW their in Siberia too, and thats no knock on KC. I enjoy the town when there. I give a lot of the blame to the still employed GM.

[Dorkington]

List of current Bills players who can start on any of the other 31 NFL teams.

 

1. C.J. Spiller.

2. Stevie Johnson

3. Scott Chandler

4. Levitre

5. Wood

6. Cordy Glenn

 

That is 6 out of 11 starters.

 

On Defense:

1. Mario Williams

2. Kyle Williams

3, Dareus Marcel

4. Gilmore

5. Byrd

 

Special Teams:

1. Ryan Lindell

2. McKelvin

 

That is 13 players out of 25 positions. We are about 50% talented roster in the NFL. The good teams are trending probably towards 75-80% and that is the difference. We sorely lack a starting QB, RT, WR on offense and the entire LB crew and a 2nd CB and a Strong Saftey to be successful.

 

Another issue is that our role players have not come through. That is a big difference with the successful teams.

 

I'm pretty on board with most of this. The other thing is depth. I think people underestimate the impact of non starters on a team.

[papazoid]

List of current Bills players who can start on any of the other 31 NFL teams.

 

1. C.J. Spiller.

2. Stevie Johnson

3. Scott Chandler

4. Levitre

5. Wood

6. Cordy Glenn

 

That is 6 out of 11 starters.

 

On Defense:

1. Mario Williams

2. Kyle Williams

3, Dareus Marcel

4. Gilmore

5. Byrd

 

Special Teams:

1. Ryan Lindell

2. McKelvin

 

That is 13 players out of 25 positions. We are about 50% talented roster in the NFL. The good teams are trending probably towards 75-80% and that is the difference. We sorely lack a starting QB, RT, WR on offense and the entire LB crew and a 2nd CB and a Strong Saftey to be successful.

 

Another issue is that our role players have not come through. That is a big difference with the successful teams.

 

i like your assesment......

 

here are my "blue chip" players....in order......Levitre, Spiller, Kyle Williams (if healthy), Wood and Mario Williams.....thats it !!.....all others still have much to prove.....

[metzelaars_lives]

The Bills don't have any real talent. C.J. Spiller is a nice player, but he proved in the game at Miami at the end of the year that he can't win games on his own. Stevie Johnson is a serviceable receiver, but his statistics are a bit inflated because the Bills throw the ball a ton and they don't have any other receivers. The offenisive line isn't terrible, but if a team doesn't abandon the pass rush like Seattle didn't, Fitpatrick is toast. Stepfon Gilmore got smoked most of the season and his pass interference call on Reggie Wayne sealed the Colts game for Indianapolis. This team has a lot of rebuilding to do.

 

Great post, I agree. In fact, Adrian Peterson isn't that good either. Did you see that game Saturday night? He also cannot win games on his own.

 

And- sarcasm off- that PI call against Gilmore at the end of the game at Indy was a horrible call and a call a hall of fame veteran gets against a rookie. If that was Revis on TJ Graham in that spot, you think that's a PI call? Come on. Gilmore will be just fine.

[BuffBill]

List of current Bills players who can start on any of the other 31 NFL teams.

 

1. C.J. Spiller.

2. Stevie Johnson

3. Scott Chandler

4. Levitre

5. Wood

6. Cordy Glenn

 

That is 6 out of 11 starters.

 

On Defense:

1. Mario Williams

2. Kyle Williams

3, Dareus Marcel

4. Gilmore

5. Byrd

 

Special Teams:

1. Ryan Lindell

2. McKelvin

 

That is 13 players out of 25 positions. We are about 50% talented roster in the NFL. The good teams are trending probably towards 75-80% and that is the difference. We sorely lack a starting QB, RT, WR on offense and the entire LB crew and a 2nd CB and a Strong Saftey to be successful.

 

Another issue is that our role players have not come through. That is a big difference with the successful teams.

Sorry but you are dreaming. Are those players bad, no, but start on any other team? Cordy Glenn has potential, but probably isn't more then 2 or 3 teams he would start on at left tackle. Chandler isn't going to start in Dallas, New England, Atlanta and several others. Probably only 1 or 2 other teams that Stevie Johnson starts on as a #1 receiver, if that. Spiller doesn't even start on probably half of the teams in the league. If all these players would start on any of the 31 teams, we not only would have a boat load of Pro Bowlers, we still would be playing in the playoffs, not losing double digit games every season.

[Big Turk]

Enough that lots of coaches seeked the Bills out, and our current coach decided after watching all our games and 3 other teams games this year that we had the most talent...