billnutinphoenix Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Bills need to get rid of a lot of dead wood - George Wilson, Kelsay, Barnett, McGee, Brad Smith, Thigpen, just to start with.... I like the idea of having Searcy starting at SS and Williams a 3rd safety as a backup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grondre Reed Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 umm what has searcy done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) The absolute minimum is for him to resign Levitre and Byrd or Nix should be fired. Bad draft picks are bad enough but letting good players walk away instead of a fair trade is no longer a option. 13 years not making the playoffs with good draft position is beyond terrible. Edited December 19, 2012 by independent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 If we don't keep Levitre & Byrd then we will have 2 gigantic holes to fill. These are 2 of our most consistent players of the past 4 years & borderline pro bowlers. It would be dumb not to retain their services. Offer market value for both. Next! The problem is that the Bills needed to offer Market Values to both of them at the beginning of this season. In Feb next year, when they have the choice of picking a team, Market value is not sufficient. Of course the Bills can Franchise tag one of them for another additional year of service. The absolute minimum is for him to resign Levitre and Byrd or Nix should be fired. Bad draft picks are bad enough but letting good players walk away instead of a fair trade is no longer a option. 13 years not making the playoffs with good draft position is beyond terrible. Trading your good players for draft picks that you turn into lousy players is also not an option. Bills need to get rid of a lot of dead wood - George Wilson, Kelsay, Barnett, McGee, Brad Smith, Thigpen, just to start with.... I like the idea of having Searcy starting at SS and Williams a 3rd safety as a backup The Bills need starters @ QB WR RT MLB WLB SS and depth at QB WR OL DL LB CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 This new NFL cap concept is basically what Bills have been running for years - cash to cap - so there's not that much change in the way Bills have allocated payments to players over the last 5 years. And that decision is still up to Littman & Overdorf. no it isnt....unless I am totally clueless, I thought - starting this upcoming offseason/season - teams HAD to spend their cap money to at least a certain point (that would obviously be over what we normally allow ourselves to spend) ? And we have spent money the past two off seasons....im not worried about us spending money to keep Byrd and Levitre, i think it comes down to if THEY want to stay here (and honestly, I think Byrd will be gone - in two years since we will franchise him, and Levitre will long-term deal it up with us, he LOVES buffalo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) This new NFL cap concept is basically what Bills have been running for years - cash to cap - so there's not that much change in the way Bills have allocated payments to players over the last 5 years. And that decision is still up to Littman & Overdorf. but they cannot spend way under the cap, like they have in some years. teams must spend up to the cap. if they dont spend on byrd, that money will still have to be spent elsewhere. therefore, littman and overdorff are only in charge of so much moving forward with regards to player salary, ideally. trust me, i understand cash to cap, their jobs, the new CBA etc.... but think that with the new system buddy should be a bit more empowered. if the cap is 120m, littman cant say sorry, cant spend 120m, our budget is 105m this year and i approve anything above that, like he may have in years past. Edited December 19, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 umm what has searcy done? Largely improved our Run Defense when put on the field. Not sure how he is in coverage, but the dude flies up and makes the hit as a SS should in Run support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 My point is, overdorf can't save money here. The cap must be spent. Overdorf can save money many other places but not dollars in and out on salary, ultimately. It seems widely logical at that point nix would be free to allocate how he chooses between players within that budget. This concept is new to the nfl, and therefore new to our front office. Before, overdorf may have had a seperate internal cap. That's no longer possible. Really simple unless you think someone else is actually in charge of talent. You are aware that the new salary cap rules had zero effect on the bills salary cap? Our cash to cap model allows us to spend easily the minimum. Very few teams where forced to change any spending habits. The bills are generally right around average for salaries in the league. Curious as to your point here about Buddy controlling all spending here? but they cannot spend way under the cap, like they have in some years. teams must spend up to the cap. if they dont spend on byrd, that money will still have to be spent elsewhere. therefore, littman and overdorff are only in charge of so much moving forward with regards to player salary, ideally. trust me, i understand cash to cap, their jobs, the new CBA etc.... but think that with the new system buddy should be a bit more empowered. if the cap is 120m, littman cant say sorry, cant spend 120m, our budget is 105m this year and i approve anything above that, like he may have in years past. Found the problem. You think that all teams have to spend the salary cap in full. False. I think it is 90% of the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeisterHollow Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 The key to signing players drafted in the 2nd or later rounds who have 4 year deals and should be re-signed is getting them locked up before their final season. Why are the Bills only now talking to Byrd and apparently not even opening talks up with Levitre? Both players were out-performing their deals last season. Maybe Overdorf is being paid by the hour, necessitating the negotiation of only 1 contract at a time. Who knows with these clowns at OBD. How True! Good GM's don't let situations like this arise, unless it is out of their control. Nix should have been working out deals with these two last year - I agree. I foresee Spiller being the same type of frustrating. Think about it: from another team's perspective, we draft Spiller, let him learn the ropes, so to speak, all the while making sure not to run down his body, and just when his contract is up, we start using him more. Now, if we let him see F.A., why on earth would he want to remain with a team that drafted him to be a backup for a year or more, and then only allowed him to play a lesser role to Fred Jackson? Spiller is the type of player who sees greatness in himself. He would respond to a coach who would say, "we want you to go out and be the best RB ever - full time". Not only should Spiller be being used up as much as possible, if we're not going to resign him, to get the most out of our pick, but if we are going to try to resign him, shouldn't we begin early, to avoid the competition that we admit we can't win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) You are aware that the new salary cap rules had zero effect on the bills salary cap? Our cash to cap model allows us to spend easily the minimum. Very few teams where forced to change any spending habits. The bills are generally right around average for salaries in the league. Curious as to your point here about Buddy controlling all spending here? Found the problem. You think that all teams have to spend the salary cap in full. False. I think it is 90% of the cap. that new cap floor doesnt leave a huge window. at 90% littman can at most short the fans about 10m by being stingy. i understand and think we will be very much at the cap moving forward. while we may shave a little bit here and there come cut down day, i do not expect to see us have to cut short free agency. we will see though. i will admit i thought it was a couple percentage points higher (didnt actually believe 100% but thought it was a low-mid 90s when it hit its peak), so my 105m example isnt the best. prior to the deal there were years that some teams were spending in the 60-70% range. im well aware we never got that low though. i dont think littman will kill us as badly as he could have in the past though moving forward. just something to keep in mind in the "will we spend" conversations. we will have to spend on team salary, we will see in other places though (coaches, front office, facilities, etc....) Edited December 19, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 How True! Good GM's don't let situations like this arise, unless it is out of their control. Nix should have been working out deals with these two last year - I agree. I foresee Spiller being the same type of frustrating. Think about it: from another team's perspective, we draft Spiller, let him learn the ropes, so to speak, all the while making sure not to run down his body, and just when his contract is up, we start using him more. Now, if we let him see F.A., why on earth would he want to remain with a team that drafted him to be a backup for a year or more, and then only allowed him to play a lesser role to Fred Jackson? Spiller is the type of player who sees greatness in himself. He would respond to a coach who would say, "we want you to go out and be the best RB ever - full time". Not only should Spiller be being used up as much as possible, if we're not going to resign him, to get the most out of our pick, but if we are going to try to resign him, shouldn't we begin early, to avoid the competition that we admit we can't win? It takes two to tango. BOTH sides must be ready and willing to negotiate. A lot of players want to wait until their contract is up so they can see what the market looks like. Player salaries are always, and only, going up. It's worth it to the players to wait. Nix and every other GM can try to start talks, but if they hear "We'll talk later" what else can they do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 It takes two to tango. BOTH sides must be ready and willing to negotiate. A lot of players want to wait until their contract is up so they can see what the market looks like. Player salaries are always, and only, going up. It's worth it to the players to wait. Nix and every other GM can try to start talks, but if they hear "We'll talk later" what else can they do?? Players are also worried about getting that one big injury and ruining their chances (and their life earnings) and would rather sign now for the guaranteed signing bonus that takes care of their life. After that what they earn through the contract is a real bonus. So it goes both ways...Players will willingly sign a good deal when they see it, irrespective of which year they are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Players are also worried about getting that one big injury and ruining their chances (and their life earnings) and would rather sign now for the guaranteed signing bonus that takes care of their life. After that what they earn through the contract is a real bonus. So it goes both ways...Players will willingly sign a good deal when they see it, irrespective of which year they are in. Agreed, it can go both ways. But it's certainly not as easy as some posters make it out to be. Some guys, and some agents, want to wait. Some dont. I think Nix has re-signed enough of our own players to show that he understands the importance of keeping your own players, and get the benefit of the doubt on this. But the current logic is: since the on-field product sucks then Nix sucks too even though he doesnt coach or play in the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) It takes two to tango. BOTH sides must be ready and willing to negotiate. A lot of players want to wait until their contract is up so they can see what the market looks like. Player salaries are always, and only, going up. It's worth it to the players to wait. Nix and every other GM can try to start talks, but if they hear "We'll talk later" what else can they do?? has nix signed anyone prior to the start of their final year? did KW have another year beyond when he signed? otherwise, ill defer to ganesh for why the other side is motivated to possibly sign early. it can go both ways. thinking out loud it seems like nix likes to wait more than a lot of guys. every signing i can think of has used as much of the RFA time they could for young ones, and vets seem to atleast be starting the final year before hammering it out (if not the window after the season ends but before FA). could be a philosophy, could be a coincidence, could be im forgetting examples. Edited December 19, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think what makes Levitre really attractive to a lot of teams is the guy ALWAYS plays. Never been hurt so as to miss time. to me that is huge. Compare that to a Mark Anderson who we sign and then can't play most of the year. Or even Eric Wood. You better hope that Levitre WANTS to play here too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) has nix signed anyone prior to the start of their final year? did KW have another year beyond when he signed? otherwise, ill defer to ganesh for why the other side is motivated to possibly sign early. it can go both ways. thinking out loud it seems like nix likes to wait more than a lot of guys. every signing i can think of has used as much of the RFA time they could for young ones, and vets seem to atleast be starting the final year before hammering it out (if not the window after the season ends but before FA). could be a philosophy, could be a coincidence, could be im forgetting examples. There really havent been many chances for him to re-sign guys coming off of their rookie contracts. Going back as far as 2007, Lynch, Poz, and Edwards are all gone/traded/not worth re-signing. 2008's draft had McKelvin, James Hardy and Chris Ellis in the first 3 rounds. I'm not sure you'll find too many people arguing that McKelvin was a "must sign" last year (even though I would like to see him ultimately retained). And we're just now seeing the guys from the 2009 draft start to come up and need addressing. They had little to no offseason in 2011 to address Stevie, yet ultimately got him re-signed before he even hit Free Agency. There arent many examples, but I dont think he had many chances either. Honestly, looking back at drafts all the way to 2006, there hasnt been anyone who shoud have been re-signed earlier or at all. Outside of Kyle Williams. Edited December 19, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think Byrd might be one of those Nate Clements type situations where he will command a far higher price than is reasonable for us to pay. Levitre will be retained without being tagged I think. As far as coaching goes, as long as Nix is here, so is Chan. He's said it publicly, there will be no change. He wasn't kidding when he said it so I'm not sure why so many posters here think Chan will be gone. Buddy is an old school man of his word, he's shown that since he's been here. Frankly I'm not sure the worlds best NFL head coach of all time (whoever that may be) could break .500 with Fitz at the helm. (oops, didn't mean to start that convo. where's the ignore button....?) I agree about the Fitz part...He's a Coach killer for certain... Still I doubt very much, man of his word or not, that Buddy can allow Chan to survive this mess...It just got too out of control this season...I'm still in favor of a clean sweep...3 for 3...Fitz, Nix, and Gailey gone...A man can dream after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 that new cap floor doesnt leave a huge window. at 90% littman can at most short the fans about 10m by being stingy. i understand and think we will be very much at the cap moving forward. while we may shave a little bit here and there come cut down day, i do not expect to see us have to cut short free agency. we will see though. i will admit i thought it was a couple percentage points higher (didnt actually believe 100% but thought it was a low-mid 90s when it hit its peak), so my 105m example isnt the best. prior to the deal there were years that some teams were spending in the 60-70% range. im well aware we never got that low though. i dont think littman will kill us as badly as he could have in the past though moving forward. just something to keep in mind in the "will we spend" conversations. we will have to spend on team salary, we will see in other places though (coaches, front office, facilities, etc... Although the new CBA put in a tougher minimum cap, it didn't change how the cap is computed So in effect it penalizes teams who pay big bonuses and then cut the guys in midstream. This will force a change in contracts from heavy front loaded deals to ones with more guarantees spread over the contract. This is what Bills started doing anyway to get to their cash to cap. If recent accounts are correct, Bills were about $11mm under the cap in '11, so that's right up to the minimum, and that amount won't change too much for '13. I don't expect Littman & Overdorf breaking the bank when they don't have to, especially since there are big contracts allocated to Williams & Anderson from last year's FA. Thus, it's not a given that Bills have the willingness to re-up both Byrd & Levitre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Frankly I'm not sure the worlds best NFL head coach of all time (whoever that may be) could break .500 with Fitz at the helm. (oops, didn't mean to start that convo. where's the ignore button....?) You're gonna self-ignore? That's never been done before. You're a visionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 You're gonna self-ignore? That's never been done before. You're a visionary. I'm sure DC Tom has done it a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts