NoSaint Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Wow! What a game! Thought even as it hit it was far enough in to make it off the bounce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Dreaded 47-yarder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 What a great game. Unfortunately a shame that the Texans win with that horrible call. But regardless, the Lions had thier shots and should have won. Still a shame tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Question on that Andre Johnson catch they reviewed. Doesn't he have to complete the catch as he goes to the ground? I thought it should have been ruled an incomplete because of that. As an unbiased observer the refs clearly favored Houston in this game. Reason? I have none but it appeared fairly obvious at least to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 What a great game. Unfortunately a shame that the Texans win with that horrible call. But regardless, the Lions had thier shots and should have won. Still a shame tho. Happened in the third quarter, and without the call Houston still might've scored that drive. There was a lot of time to overcome it. Still sucks, but not worst case scenario either, Question on that Andre Johnson catch they reviewed. Doesn't he have to complete the catch as he goes to the ground? I thought it should have been ruled an incomplete because of that. As an unbiased observer the refs clearly favored Houston in this game. Reason? I have none but it appeared fairly obvious at least to me. Based on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Happened in the third quarter, and without the call Houston still might've scored that drive. There was a lot of time to overcome it. Still sucks, but not worst case scenario either, Based on? I hate your logic of it happening in the third quarter and thus not having an effect on the outcome. That was a huge momentum shift as well as very deflating to the lions team. As for the refs- a block in the back on megatron that was phantom, as well as a phantom hold on the same drive. I stand by the Andre Johnson catch being a non catch because he didn't complete it as he went to the ground (unless I missed something and someone can correct me), and in at least 2 times where I thought pi should have been called against the texans and I just got that feeling. It just didn't feel like the calls were even and it is a disturbing trend in the league lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) I hate your logic of it happening in the third quarter and thus not having an effect on the outcome. That was a huge momentum shift as well as very deflating to the lions team. As for the refs- a block in the back on megatron that was phantom, as well as a phantom hold on the same drive. I stand by the Andre Johnson catch being a non catch because he didn't complete it as he went to the ground (unless I missed something and someone can correct me), and in at least 2 times where I thought pi should have been called against the texans and I just got that feeling. It just didn't feel like the calls were even and it is a disturbing trend in the league lately. I agree that the calls still matter but with over a quarter to play there's a lot that can still happen. Just like a dropped pass hurts a lot more in the 2 minute drill than it does in the middle of the 3rd. Time to over overcome it still. Not saying its ok, just not as devastating. Edited November 22, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 That kind of thing is a disgrace to the NFL. How can they possibly have a rule like that? That they can't review it if the coach throws a flag. That is just terrible, and terribly unfair. Agreed it's patently absurd and violates the spirit of the whole challenge procedure. That said, Jim Schwarz has no self control whatsoever and is one of the biggest jackasses I've ever seen roaming an NFL sideline. It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy and I seriously doubt the Lions will ever approach their huge potential as long as those players have to work under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Agreed it's patently absurd and violates the spirit of the whole challenge procedure. That said, Jim Schwarz has no self control whatsoever and is one of the biggest jackasses I've ever seen roaming an NFL sideline. It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy and I seriously doubt the Lions will ever approach their huge potential as long as those players have to work under him. I get that the nfl was tired of coaches ignoring the rules but I think a simple charge them the review instead of block the review is fair in this case. The old "we were going to do that anyway for free but we won't stop you from paying for it" Edited November 22, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I stand by the Andre Johnson catch being a non catch because he didn't complete it as he went to the ground (unless I missed something and someone can correct me), Johnson took 3-4 steps after catching the ball before going to the ground. In NFL-terms, those steps are known as a "football move." So in the eyes of the rule book, he had already completed the catch before going to the ground. Now, if the receiver is going to the ground while making the catch - then they must complete the play with possession and cannot lose the ball when they hit the ground. The steps Johnson made make all the difference. It was the right call. The Forsett play... Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Johnson took 3-4 steps after catching the ball before going to the ground. In NFL-terms, those steps are known as a "football move." So in the eyes of the rule book, he had already completed the catch before going to the ground. Now, if the receiver is going to the ground while making the catch - then they must complete the play with possession and cannot lose the ball when they hit the ground. The steps Johnson made make all the difference. It was the right call. The Forsett play... Not so much. Even the forsett play - it seemed in real time they couldn't tell, so you let them play and fix it on review. Refs are coached to let the play to unless they are sure it's done because that's the easier way to fix.... Unless Schwartz messes that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 So if I think there was a blown TD call in my favor I should throw the red flag to nullify any kind of replay? I'd imagine there's some sort of wording that allows the other team to benefit still Based on the poorly conceived rule, I don't think anyone could assume that there's a corollary to that rule that's well conceived. I get that the nfl was tired of coaches ignoring the rules but I think a simple charge them the review instead of block the review is fair in this case. The old "we were going to do that anyway for free but we won't stop you from paying for it" Yeah. Wouldn't you think that the 15 yard penalty is enough? The NFL's Competition Committee had better get back to the drawing board. OR, they can stand pat as they did with the "Tuck Rule" and pretend that it's a good rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 Based on the poorly conceived rule, I don't think anyone could assume that there's a corollary to that rule that's well conceived. Yeah. Wouldn't you think that the 15 yard penalty is enough? The NFL's Competition Committee had better get back to the drawing board. OR, they can stand pat as they did with the "Tuck Rule" and pretend that it's a good rule. fair enough, though its been mentioned as part of the rule (this isnt the first time its been enforced). from the sounds of it, they realized theres a lot of backlash and this ones easily remedied. and deadspin had a little write up - apparently by some advanced stats place - it was calculated that the gap in the win odds for houston bumped from 18% probability to 35% on the tackle vs the touchdown followed by a touchback. certainly not good, or something im saying is a-okay, but trying to point out that they still SHOULD have been able to overcome and win that game. it was a huge mistake by schwartz, but it isnt the only reason they lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 While we're back on the subject, NFL Executive VP for Football Operations, Ray Anderson has intimated that the rule could be changed, even during the season: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/23/after-detroit-debacle-nfl-could-change-red-flag-rule-during-season/ “I think there’s some sentiment, Mike, that that may be too harsh,” Anderson said. “To not be able to review in those circumstances may be harsh, because at the end of the day the review process is intended to get it right.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 While we're back on the subject, NFL Executive VP for Football Operations, Ray Anderson has intimated that the rule could be changed, even during the season: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/23/after-detroit-debacle-nfl-could-change-red-flag-rule-during-season/ “I think there’s some sentiment, Mike, that that may be too harsh,” Anderson said. “To not be able to review in those circumstances may be harsh, because at the end of the day the review process is intended to get it right.” i think itd be a fair change. like i said, charge them a review if they throw the flag. you want to ask for a review, we will give one to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Yep. Or review the play because it was a scoring play and penalize the team throwing the challenge flag 15 yards. Almost anything would be an improvement to the existing rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 As for the refs- a block in the back on megatron that was phantom Trust me I hate the Texans more than you do, but I disagree that was a phantom illegal block on Calvin Johnson. The refs would call that 95 out of 100 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 NFL to examine replay rule that hurt Lions, may make change this year http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21107400/nfl-to-examine-replay-rule-that-hurt-lions-may-make-change-this-year The rule that negated using video replay to review a Houston Texans touchdown against the Detroit Lions "may be too harsh" and will be re-examined immediately, NFL director of football operations Ray Anderson said Friday. Anderson, also co-chairman of the competition committee that suggests rules changes to the owners, said a change could come this year. The NFL traditionally resists changing rules during a season. "We will certainly discuss the rule with the competition committee members, as we do all situations involving unique and unusual circumstances, and determine if we feel a change should be recommended to ownership," Anderson said in a statement. "Not being able to review a play in this situation may be too harsh, and an unintended consequence of trying to prevent coaches from throwing their challenge flag for strategic purposes in situations that are not subject to a coaches' challenge." That is what was happening last year with some coaches' abusing challenge flags so they should not be surprised in results. This kind of reaction to attempts to exploit rules and loopholes is ingrained into the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 This has got to be the most stupid rule in NFL football among many. I thought the whole idea of instant replay was to get the calls right. Right? If a coach throws a red flag at the wrong time and wanna penalize 15 that's cool. But you can't let a TD stand that was not a TD. I can't believe this is even the rule and they even enforced it as is when it was so obviously a bad call. Mark the ball where Forsett's knee touched and then penalize Detroit 15 yards. This is why I don't like the whole challenge/time out thing. If you want to use replay to get the calls right, review anything that looks wrong in a timely manner. If you can't over turn it in between plays, it stands. Definitely review TOs and scores on close calls that are not ruled scores as they do today. Dump the whole challenge thing. Let's just use replay to get the calls right and leave the strategy aspect out of it. I always wondered what happens if a team has no challenges left and something happens like did in that game. Let it stand because they don't have challenges left? It's dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Refs get so much wrong in all sports, it is a dumb rule and should go. I would also like them to be able to review penalties, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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