DrDawkinstein Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Keeping this thread on the Pit Bull topic, longtime Pit Bull owner and advocates Pitcher Mark Buehrle and family face some difficulties now that he has been traded to the Blue Jays. Toronto has a (ridiculous) BSL Ban on pitbulls, and they are trying to figure out how to make it work... http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/poor-hound-mark-buehrle-dog-not-welcome-toronto-150208507--mlb.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Keeping this thread on the Pit Bull topic, longtime Pit Bull owner and advocates Pitcher Mark Buehrle and family face some difficulties now that he has been traded to the Blue Jays. Toronto has a (ridiculous) BSL Ban on pitbulls, and they are trying to figure out how to make it work... http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/poor-hound-mark-buehrle-dog-not-welcome-toronto-150208507--mlb.html this has got to be one of the most pro-pitt threads ive ever seen online. normally you get some real pushback from the other side. im not surprised reading your longer post about people pleasing. thats really the number one trait ive picked up from my time around them. it really is amazing how extreme some of the reactions are from "uh oh did i do something wrong i hope i didnt do anything bad" mine gets when you tell her to stop something, followed by just the tail wagging (full body wagging) happiness of a simple "good girl" i dont know the answer on how to fix the bully breed dilemma that has evolved to where it is today, but its a real shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 This is true and not true. There is no such thing as being able to breed "aggressiveness" in dogs. They certainly try, but it doesnt work like that. Two "champion" fighting dogs could produce a litter of all timid dogs. I think you're right and wrong. There is very specific breeding of working dog breeds for "prey drive". "Prey drive" is basically aggression toward a target. If you breed two working dogs who have high prey drive, you're more likely to have multiple offspring with similar traits. The cycle has perpetuated numerous times with multiple popular breeds (GSD, Doberman, BM, etc). I'm not disputing the rest of what you typed but there are numerous books on the subject that have fascinating science behind them. It's not an "all or nothing" sum game. Keeping this thread on the Pit Bull topic, longtime Pit Bull owner and advocates Pitcher Mark Buehrle and family face some difficulties now that he has been traded to the Blue Jays. Toronto has a (ridiculous) BSL Ban on pitbulls, and they are trying to figure out how to make it work... http://sports.yahoo....08507--mlb.html If I were Buehrle, I'd refuse to report and hold out until traded to a place my entire family could live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 this has got to be one of the most pro-pitt threads ive ever seen online. normally you get some real pushback from the other side. im not surprised reading your longer post about people pleasing. thats really the number one trait ive picked up from my time around them. it really is amazing how extreme some of the reactions are from "uh oh did i do something wrong i hope i didnt do anything bad" mine gets when you tell her to stop something, followed by just the tail wagging (full body wagging) happiness of a simple "good girl" i dont know the answer on how to fix the bully breed dilemma that has evolved to where it is today, but its a real shame. Slowly and surely, people are figuring out that you can't judge an entire breed by a few stories. And also that it is usually a human's fault when a dog misbehaves. Between the press and reaction that the Vick situation got, shows like "Pitbulls & Paroles" and "Pit Boss", and even Cesar Millan showcasing the breed, I believe sentiment is starting to turn. And the sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Both of my dogs are 14, and still spry. I dread the day it comes for them, but that was a great way of describing how it can and should be a beautiful process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 I think you're right and wrong. There is very specific breeding of working dog breeds for "prey drive". "Prey drive" is basically aggression toward a target. If you breed two working dogs who have high prey drive, you're more likely to have multiple offspring with similar traits. The cycle has perpetuated numerous times with multiple popular breeds (GSD, Doberman, BM, etc). I'm not disputing the rest of what you typed but there are numerous books on the subject that have fascinating science behind them. It's not an "all or nothing" sum game. If I were Buehrle, I'd refuse to report and hold out until traded to a place my entire family could live. Yeah, I hear ya. See my "footnote" post. Genetics, inheritable traits and breeding is definitely a grey area. As far as the Buehrle family is concerned, they might be just what a lot of good dogs in the Toronto area have needed. Theyve done great work in Chicago and Miami, and have fought to have BSLs repealed before. Hopefully that works out for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Yeah, I hear ya. See my "footnote" post. Genetics, inheritable traits and breeding is definitely a grey area. As far as the Buehrle family is concerned, they might be just what a lot of good dogs in the Toronto area have needed. Theyve done great work in Chicago and Miami, and have fought to have BSLs repealed before. Hopefully that works out for the best. still crazy to me that families in the toronto area had to turn in their pets.... that was the process once outlawed, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) still crazy to me that families in the toronto area had to turn in their pets.... that was the process once outlawed, right? From what Ive read on the BSL bans in Denver, Miami, Ohio (now overturned!), and Ontario/Toronto most places allowed existing dogs to be grandfathered in. But there is very little room for any misbehavior. Im talking if the dog gets out of the yard and is picked up by Animal Control, even if it hasnt done anything bad, it's being put down. The worst/most famous of these cases comes from Ireland regarding a dog named Lennox. A few years ago, town officials came into a house and had a nice chat and tea with the owners. They played with Lennox for a bit, took some measurements of the dog, and determined that based on those measurements the dog was a "banned type". No DNA testing, no temperament testing, just some measurements. They immediately seized the family dog. A lawsuit followed to try to free Lennox. Instead of living in a safe household with a loving family, officials kept Lennox in a sawdust lined cement pen for two years. This is where the poor dog was kept for two years while they determined if he should be put down: Well, two years into the lawsuit, the town officials even denied the family the chance to just say good-bye and killed him late one night while the media wasn't around. Personally, if I were living in a place that implemented a BSL ban, Id move out of state before it would even matter. Take my tax money elsewhere. Edited November 21, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 From what Ive read on the BSL bans in Denver, Miami, Ohio (now overturned!), and Ontario/Toronto most places allowed existing dogs to be grandfathered in. What if your grandfather doesn't like dogs? Also, does BSL stand for what I think it stands for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 What if your grandfather doesn't like dogs? Also, does BSL stand for what I think it stands for? HA! Funny enough, my grandfather was the only person any of my pits have ever bitten. My first pit had a spotted tongue, and when she was a puppy my grandfather was playing with her and wanted to see her tongue so the dummy grabbed it. Well, she bit down on his hand and he learned not to do that ever again. Sorry, I meant to clarify. Breed Specific Legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 HA! Funny enough, my grandfather was the only person any of my pits have ever bitten. My first pit had a spotted tongue, and when she was a puppy my grandfather was playing with her and wanted to see her tongue so the dummy grabbed it. Well, she bit down on his hand and he learned not to do that ever again. Sorry, I meant to clarify. Breed Specific Legislation. Funny story. And no need to apologize. It seems like BSL is a fitting acronym for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 That is both sad and happy at the same time. I have a lot of respect for her. BTW, I agree about bad owners not bad dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 From what Ive read on the BSL bans in Denver, Miami, Ohio (now overturned!), and Ontario/Toronto most places allowed existing dogs to be grandfathered in. But there is very little room for any misbehavior. Im talking if the dog gets out of the yard and is picked up by Animal Control, even if it hasnt done anything bad, it's being put down. The worst/most famous of these cases comes from Ireland regarding a dog named Lennox. A few years ago, town officials came into a house and had a nice chat and tea with the owners. They played with Lennox for a bit, took some measurements of the dog, and determined that based on those measurements the dog was a "banned type". No DNA testing, no temperament testing, just some measurements. They immediately seized the family dog. A lawsuit followed to try to free Lennox. Instead of living in a safe household with a loving family, officials kept Lennox in a sawdust lined cement pen for two years. This is where the poor dog was kept for two years while they determined if he should be put down: Well, two years into the lawsuit, the town officials even denied the family the chance to just say good-bye and killed him late one night while the media wasn't around. Personally, if I were living in a place that implemented a BSL ban, Id move out of state before it would even matter. Take my tax money elsewhere. I was familiar with this story. Just terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I don't think you need to be a dog lover or pit bull fan to appreciate her decision. Good for her. Prob lost her a lot of money and caused mAjor grief for her people, but very wise to choose family over career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provoked Pit Bull Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) I think you're right and wrong. There is very specific breeding of working dog breeds for "prey drive". "Prey drive" is basically aggression toward a target. If you breed two working dogs who have high prey drive, you're more likely to have multiple offspring with similar traits. The cycle has perpetuated numerous times with multiple popular breeds (GSD, Doberman, BM, etc). I'm not disputing the rest of what you typed but there are numerous books on the subject that have fascinating science behind them. It's not an "all or nothing" sum game. Breeding or no breeding, come at me with a bottle of ammonia and we'll see who's boss. Edited November 22, 2012 by Provoked Pit Bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I'm sure most pit bulls are great, but it's these stats that concern people: 31 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2011. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 650 U.S. cities, pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 71% (22). Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) I'm sure most pit bulls are great, but it's these stats that concern people: 31 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2011. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 650 U.S. cities, pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 71% (22). Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.3 Also... I was reading... Something like 40% of all homeowner's claims are for dog bites/attacks... Can that be right??? Edited November 22, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I'm guilty of damning the species as a whole. Then I volunteered at the Richmond SPCA. I went in to hang with a pitbull and at first I had visions of her going for my throat, then..... she melted my heart. I played with her for over an hour. The sweetest most docile dog I'd ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Also... I was reading... Something like 40% of all homeowner's claims are for dog bites/attacks... Can that be right??? Yes on the homeowners numbers. Some policies ban certain breeds . I know dade county/Miami had a pitbull ban and buhrle had a problem when he got traded to Miami. Stories like the poojer just told apply to most pitbulls I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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