The Final Play in Foxborough

[1B4IDie]

So I know this is being discuss in multiple other threads in other topics. I think we need one place to discuss this as it likely will be a hot button topic for the week, (and likely until we play the Pats again next year.) Mods if you collapse this thread please keep the title.

 

I watched the play a few dozen times now.

 

You can watch the play here:

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap2000000093122/Ryan-Fitzpatrick-end-zone-interception

 

1.) TJ Graham is clearly supposed to run his route infront of the defenders in the end zone. We have seen David Nelson run this route many times and Scott Chandler run this route a few times. The Safties and Corners are in the end zone and TJ Graham is supposed to cut in front of them and not run in the midst of them. This was a boneheaded rookie mistake. TJ Graham doesn't even seem to be aware he is a viable option as he is starring at the goal post for most of the play. I don't think TJ Graham was anywhere near the top option on that play.

 

This is just one specific example of how much Fitzpatrick misses his David Nelson security blanket. That expected route looks like David Nelson's signature inside route.

 

2.) McCourty had to jump in the air when he was 5 yards deep in the end zone to catch the interception. If Statement 1 is correct and Fitzpatrick was looking for TJ Graham to break in front of the defenders why was the ball thrown so High? If you watch the flight of the ball, the Ball would have been way over TJ Graham's head if he broke infront of the defenders.TJ Graham would have likely had to jump in order to catch, and Jump real high; exposing himself to a big time hit by those safties and corners.

If Fitzpatrick would have thrown the ball where it should have been located on that play, At TJ Graham's Numbers OR LOWER. In this situation with a 6'0" receiver the Ball should have landed safely on the ground two yards deep in the end zone. That ball should have been at TJ's Numbers or LOWER.

 

So not only did TJ Graham run the wrong route but it appears Fitzpatrick had poor ball placement on the play, like usual.

 

This is another example of how the 6'5" David Nelson and 6'7" Scott Chandler that usually run this route might have actually made the play. But the 6'0" TJ Graham even if TJ broke infront of the defenders he might not have made the play given the height of the throw.

 

3.) CJ Spiller is pretty open in space on that play.

 

If you're going to take your best playmaker out of the backfield and get him in open space what better position to throw him the ball with time on the clock.

 

If you watch the timing of throw to where TJ Graham is on the field it just seems off even if you're expecting TJ Graham to break inside. Its obviously easy to watch the play 36 times on nfl.com, knowing the outcome and make a judgment as compared to being in the pocket. TJ Graham is staring at the goalpost for the majority of the play.

 

CJ Spiller is open in space. He likely wouldn't get in the end zone, he likely would get within the 5. Spike the Ball and you have 2nd and goal.

 

CJ Spiller also was ready and aware of the situation and wanted the ball. TJ Graham was not.

 

I'm emotionally exhausted. I can't take these **** Sandwiches this team is feeding us for much longer.

[CBD]

1.) TJ Graham is clearly supposed to run his route infront of the defenders in the end zone. We have seen David Nelson run this route many times and Scott Chandler run this route a few times. The Safties and Corners are in the end zone and TJ Graham is supposed to cut in front of them and not run in the midst of them. This was a boneheaded rookie mistake. TJ Graham doesn't even seem to be aware he is a viable option as he is starring at the goal post for most of the play. I don't think TJ Graham was anywhere near the top option on that play.

 

Didn't Chandler score on a similar play in the home game earlier this year?

[Bronc24]

So I know this is being discuss in multiple other threads in other topics. I think we need one place to discuss this as it likely will be a hot button topic for the week, (and likely until we play the Pats again next year.) Mods if you collapse this thread please keep the title.

 

I watched the play a few dozen times now.

 

You can watch the play here:

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap2000000093122/Ryan-Fitzpatrick-end-zone-interception

 

1.) TJ Graham is clearly supposed to run his route infront of the defenders in the end zone. We have seen David Nelson run this route many times and Scott Chandler run this route a few times. The Safties and Corners are in the end zone and TJ Graham is supposed to cut in front of them and not run in the midst of them. This was a boneheaded rookie mistake. TJ Graham doesn't even seem to be aware he is a viable option as he is starring at the goal post for most of the play. I don't think TJ Graham was anywhere near the top option on that play.

 

This is just one specific example of how much Fitzpatrick misses his David Nelson security blanket. That expected route looks like David Nelson's signature inside route.

 

2.) McCourty had to jump in the air when he was 5 yards deep in the end zone to catch the interception. If Statement 1 is correct and Fitzpatrick was looking for TJ Graham to break in front of the defenders why was the ball thrown so High? If you watch the flight of the ball, the Ball would have been way over TJ Graham's head if he broke infront of the defenders.TJ Graham would have likely had to jump in order to catch, and Jump real high; exposing himself to a big time hit by those safties and corners.

If Fitzpatrick would have thrown the ball where it should have been located on that play, At TJ Graham's Numbers OR LOWER. In this situation with a 6'0" receiver the Ball should have landed safely on the ground two yards deep in the end zone. That ball should have been at TJ's Numbers or LOWER.

 

So not only did TJ Graham run the wrong route but it appears Fitzpatrick had poor ball placement on the play, like usual.

 

This is another example of how the 6'5" David Nelson and 6'7" Scott Chandler that usually run this route might have actually made the play. But the 6'0" TJ Graham even if TJ broke infront of the defenders he might not have made the play given the height of the throw.

 

3.) CJ Spiller is pretty open in space on that play.

 

If you're going to take your best playmaker out of the backfield and get him in open space what better position to throw him the ball with time on the clock.

 

If you watch the timing of throw to where TJ Graham is on the field it just seems off even if you're expecting TJ Graham to break inside. Its obviously easy to watch the play 36 times on nfl.com, knowing the outcome and make a judgment as compared to being in the pocket. TJ Graham is staring at the goalpost for the majority of the play.

 

CJ Spiller is open in space. He likely wouldn't get in the end zone, he likely would get within the 5. Spike the Ball and you have 2nd and goal.

 

CJ Spiller also was ready and aware of the situation and wanted the ball. TJ Graham was not.

 

I'm emotionally exhausted. I can't take these **** Sandwiches this team is feeding us for much longer.

 

Good post.

[1B4IDie]

Didn't Chandler score on a similar play in the home game earlier this year?

 

An inside receiver running a simple skinny post in front of the secondary has been Fitzy and this offenses signature TD.

Instead of the fade route this team has scored on this play several times. Chandler and Nelson have both scored on this amongst others.

 

So Yes I believe that is true.

[fan_in_tx]

So I know this is being discuss in multiple other threads in other topics. I think we need one place to discuss this as it likely will be a hot button topic for the week, (and likely until we play the Pats again next year.) Mods if you collapse this thread please keep the title.

 

I watched the play a few dozen times now.

 

You can watch the play here:

 

http://www.nfl.com/v...ne-interception

 

1.) TJ Graham is clearly supposed to run his route infront of the defenders in the end zone. We have seen David Nelson run this route many times and Scott Chandler run this route a few times. The Safties and Corners are in the end zone and TJ Graham is supposed to cut in front of them and not run in the midst of them. This was a boneheaded rookie mistake. TJ Graham doesn't even seem to be aware he is a viable option as he is starring at the goal post for most of the play. I don't think TJ Graham was anywhere near the top option on that play.

 

This is just one specific example of how much Fitzpatrick misses his David Nelson security blanket. That expected route looks like David Nelson's signature inside route.

 

2.) McCourty had to jump in the air when he was 5 yards deep in the end zone to catch the interception. If Statement 1 is correct and Fitzpatrick was looking for TJ Graham to break in front of the defenders why was the ball thrown so High? If you watch the flight of the ball, the Ball would have been way over TJ Graham's head if he broke infront of the defenders.TJ Graham would have likely had to jump in order to catch, and Jump real high; exposing himself to a big time hit by those safties and corners.

If Fitzpatrick would have thrown the ball where it should have been located on that play, At TJ Graham's Numbers OR LOWER. In this situation with a 6'0" receiver the Ball should have landed safely on the ground two yards deep in the end zone. That ball should have been at TJ's Numbers or LOWER.

 

So not only did TJ Graham run the wrong route but it appears Fitzpatrick had poor ball placement on the play, like usual.

 

This is another example of how the 6'5" David Nelson and 6'7" Scott Chandler that usually run this route might have actually made the play. But the 6'0" TJ Graham even if TJ broke infront of the defenders he might not have made the play given the height of the throw.

 

3.) CJ Spiller is pretty open in space on that play.

 

If you're going to take your best playmaker out of the backfield and get him in open space what better position to throw him the ball with time on the clock.

 

If you watch the timing of throw to where TJ Graham is on the field it just seems off even if you're expecting TJ Graham to break inside. Its obviously easy to watch the play 36 times on nfl.com, knowing the outcome and make a judgment as compared to being in the pocket. TJ Graham is staring at the goalpost for the majority of the play.

 

CJ Spiller is open in space. He likely wouldn't get in the end zone, he likely would get within the 5. Spike the Ball and you have 2nd and goal.

 

CJ Spiller also was ready and aware of the situation and wanted the ball. TJ Graham was not.

 

I'm emotionally exhausted. I can't take these **** Sandwiches this team is feeding us for much longer.

 

McCourty is only listed at 5 10 and backpeddling so his jump in the air would take more effort and look more difficult than a 6' receiver 5 yards in running forward. I'm sure Graham would have been able to leap and catch had he cut inside.

 

An inside receiver running a simple skinny post in front of the secondary has been Fitzy and this offenses signature TD.

Instead of the fade route this team has scored on this play several times. Chandler and Nelson have both scored on this amongst others.

 

So Yes I believe that is true.

 

 

Additionally if you look at the 00.03 mark and compare to the 00.04 mark you can see how much space is open in front of the defender in that area. Everyone clears the area.. Graham cuts in front easy TD.. Spiller I believe was outlet on that play but again the play design is really really good you have a receiver who should be open in front of a defender with nothing in between him and the QB

[Simon]

You can watch the play here:

 

http://www.nfl.com/v...ne-interception

 

 

 

3.) CJ Spiller is pretty open in space on that play.

 

If you're going to take your best playmaker out of the backfield and get him in open space what better position to throw him the ball with time on the clock.

 

CJ Spiller is open in space. He likely wouldn't get in the end zone, he likely would get within the 5. Spike the Ball and you have 2nd and goal.

 

There's several problems with taking that read, and all of them are a result of losing those two timeouts to an injury and cheapshot. If you throw to the middle of the field and don't score, you have got to piss away a down to stop the clock, and giving away downs in last second goal-to-go situations is not smart football. Secondly, by the time you complete the play and get to the line and make sure everybody is set before you clock it, you've just run the clock down to about 10 seconds and taken away yet another of your available downs, leaving you with only two plays to score. If you complete that pass in between the hashes and Spiller is tackled short of the first down (which is a distinct possibility if the ball is not absolutely perfect), then you've got to hustle to the line to clock it, thereby wasting another down and putting you in a position where you've only got about 10 seconds and you're now staring at 4th down and only have one play to score.

 

Throwing that ball in the middle of the field short of the goalline would have been a questionable decision; throwing that ball in the middle of the field short of the first down marker would have been downright foolish. I'm guessing that Chan told him to either get the ball to the sideline or get the ball to the endzone, but whatever you do don't throw it in front of the 1stdown marker.

[jonramz]

yeah I'm not a fan of the throw to CJ over the middle... if he doesn't get to the 5, no first down and then it's 4th down b/c you have to spike it on 3rd.

 

The post to TJ was there...I think the pass was high, but I think TJ would have gotten it and scored had he run the correct route... just sucks that he didn't

[Ramius]

Even if we put the blame on TJ for making the wrong read, take a look at the actual pass. If TJ had broken the pattern off in front of the S, the pass from shitzpatrick still would have been high and behind graham, like the vast majority of his passes.

[Rubes]

Even if we put the blame on TJ for making the wrong read, take a look at the actual pass. If TJ had broken the pattern off in front of the S, the pass from shitzpatrick still would have been high and behind graham, like the vast majority of his passes.

 

True, imagine how many more yards passing he would have had yesterday if he only threw the ball on target to his receivers.

[1B4IDie]

McCourty is only listed at 5 10 and backpeddling so his jump in the air would take more effort and look more difficult than a 6' receiver 5 yards in running forward. I'm sure Graham would have been able to leap and catch had he cut inside.

 

 

 

 

Additionally if you look at the 00.03 mark and compare to the 00.04 mark you can see how much space is open in front of the defender in that area. Everyone clears the area.. Graham cuts in front easy TD.. Spiller I believe was outlet on that play but again the play design is really really good you have a receiver who should be open in front of a defender with nothing in between him and the QB

 

I don't know if I necessarily agree with the bolded statement, but either way we will never know.

 

If you imagine TJ Graham and the ball to connect AT the Goal line. The Ball looks about 7+ feet above the ground at that point. TJ Graham could get his hands on the ball easily but at that height he is open up and vulnerable for a devastating blow.

 

If the ball is thrown at 5' above the goal line. (Where it probably should be located by a capable NFL QB) It would be very difficult for McCourty to get under it 5 yards deep in the endzone when TJ Graham makes takes the wrong route. It would have had to have been a shoelace, spectacular INT.

 

When Welker is running those inside routes Brady doesn't throw the ball 7' in the air. The Ball is less than 5' off the ground. Thats where that pass had to be to the 6'0" TJ Graham as opposed to the 6'5" David Nelson.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Why So Serious?

[Wagon Circler]

As another poster pointed out, Stevie J. also seemed to be breaking open in the left corner on a fade route.

[NewEra]

Good post. Bad pass. Bad route. Bad decision to make that throw, to a rookie WR.

[KOKBILLS]

As another poster pointed out, Stevie J. also seemed to be breaking open in the left corner on a fade route.

 

If you watch the play (and it happens in a split second), when Fitz goes to look off CJ the CB covering Stevie takes one hard step towards Spiller, and it was over right there...Stevie just sprinted by him...That would have been as easy a TD as it gets...

[srtoady]

GEE and committing all of those stupid, stupid penalties had nothing to do with us losing. Ftiz will not lead us to the promise land because this same scenerio keeps happening over and over again. He is either not on the same page as his receivers or he just misses the throw. Too bad it seems to happen every time the team needs him to make the play.

[fan_in_tx]

If you watch the play (and it happens in a split second), when Fitz goes to look off CJ the CB covering Stevie takes one hard step towards Spiller, and it was over right there...Stevie just sprinted by him...That would have been as easy a TD as it gets...

 

It's a cover 2 you have a safety sitting inside the left hash at the goal line providing over / under coveage on Stevie with the corner. If you watch the play the linebacker releases Stevie to the corner and peels back on spiller.. corner is looking inside and slows abit and safety starts peeling towards middle of field following Fitz's eyes and throw to the right side of the field (from QB view). If Fitz throws to Stevie it is picked. Spiller and maybe Jones ( If he throws to inside shoulder) are the only other options.

[Never Wrong]

Graham ran the wrong route. He was probably in there because Jones and Jackson were on the sidelines woozy.. That interception is on him. Speculation on whether that throw is on the mark for the "correct" route is just not productive. For all those that will use any thread to post a "Fitz sucks" note... I don't think you can do it here. He played extremely well. Including that last drive. Graham said it himself.. It was his fault.

[KOKBILLS]

It's a cover 2 you have a safety sitting inside the left hash at the goal line providing over / under coveage on Stevie with the corner. If you watch the play the linebacker releases Stevie to the corner and peels back on spiller.. corner is looking inside and slows abit and safety starts peeling towards middle of field following Fitz's eyes and throw to the right side of the field (from QB view). If Fitz throws to Stevie it is picked. Spiller and maybe Jones ( If he throws to inside shoulder) are the only other options.

 

I don't know...I would agree if the corner sluffed off and chased...But watch him plant...From that point Stevie is really open...With the right pass I don't think the safety could have got over to Stevie in time...The throw would have had to be good no question...And quick...But IMHO it was there...Fitz made his mind up way before anyway...And if Graham runs the right route who knows?...

[Buftex]

yeah I'm not a fan of the throw to CJ over the middle... if he doesn't get to the 5, no first down and then it's 4th down b/c you have to spike it on 3rd.

 

The post to TJ was there...I think the pass was high, but I think TJ would have gotten it and scored had he run the correct route... just sucks that he didn't

 

If you really look closely at that play, forget the pass to CJ over the middle (though CJ seems to be the master of changing directions on a dime), and you will see that Donald Jones is wide, wide open around the two yard line, close to the sideline...I have no doubt that, assuming Fitz was completely off the mark, Jones catches a pass there and runs it in the final two yards, or is able to get out of bounds...it was 1st & 10 with 28 seconds on the clock...there was no need to take consecutive shots at the endzone like that, IMO. The Pats were playing the enzone...

 

I don't want to kill Fitz, cuz if he completes that one single pass, we are all agreeing (I think) he played pretty well...but, honeslty, if you watch that play, and you can see everything, Graham (not because he is a rookie, but where he is on the field) was probably the worst option on that play.

 

I don't know...I would agree if the corner sluffed off and chased...But watch him plant...From that point Stevie is really open...With the right pass I don't think the safety could have got over to Stevie in time...The throw would have had to be good no question...And quick...But IMHO it was there...Fitz made his mind up way before anyway...And if Graham runs the right route who knows?...

 

That is, to me, the biggest mistake on the play...Fitz wasn't reacting to what was there, he was just determined he was going to throw it in the endzone..there was too much time left to force something...

Edited November 12, 2012 by Buftex

[Maury Ballstein]

ladies and gentlemen i bring to you an outsiders view of Fitz.....from the almighty James Walker........Good Fitz” was back this week, although nearly every quarterback looks good against the Patriots’ secondary. The streaky Fitzpatrick lit up New England and nearly pulled off a big upset. Fitzpatrick hit seven different receivers. But as usual, Fitzpatrick saved his worst throw for last. He threw the ball right to Patriots safety Devin McCourty in the end zone to close out the game. Other than that, it was a good performance for Fitzpatrick.

[Mr. WEO]

Even if we put the blame on TJ for making the wrong read, take a look at the actual pass. If TJ had broken the pattern off in front of the S, the pass from shitzpatrick still would have been high and behind graham, like the vast majority of his passes.

 

He completed the vast majority of his passes. He led them on 5 scoring drives out of 10. He had 20 passing first downs. He had 8.0 ypa.

 

After leading the Bills to 31 points he coould not overcome the 37 points the D gave up. A defense that simply couldn't stop the great Danny Woodhead.