What have the Bills done wrong this offseason?

[T master]

We are all quite aware of the wildly succesfull free agency period and draft the Bills have had this off season.

But where do my fellow posters think they have come up short. Or made the incorrect choice. My only disagreement with there moves was to let D. Florence go and keep Mcgee. Why? Simple Florence was able to stay healthy and on the field. If Mcgee is healthy he is a better player. This is my only beef.

 

Well you have to think of it like this . Mcgee although hurt a lot in the past , when healthy is the best we have had in that position , so doesn't it make more sense to keep him around (being the best when healthy) not to mention being a life long Bills player & letting a guy go that is good but inconsistent at best to teach the rookies ?

 

This way if Mcgee gets hurt & is ultimately cut before the season b/c he gets hurt again or just isn't 100% at the start of the season , at least the Bills have kept the best possible mentor around to pass on veteran knowledge to the rookie class of the past 2 years that will be the corp of this team for the next 4 to 5 years !!

 

The only other thing that i can see where we may have fallen a bit short is the WR pick in the 3rd ?? I hope that Graham can become what the team envisioned him to be , or that Marcus Easley can become that person , which with his size & speed & the investment of 2 yrs already made by the team he is my horse in this race !

 

I just hope that if Easley does become our entrenched #2 WR that he remembers come contract time that the Bills paid him 2 years salary while he was trying to get his health issues in line & shows a bit of loyalty to the Bills for it rather than getting healthy , doing great things at his position & then being a Willis Mcgahee type & bolting while bad mouthing the team for better money .. What a creep !!! !!

Edited June 4, 2012 by T master

[ndirish1978]

I am a bit confused about why a lot of people here seem so focused on the TE position?

 

I say this because we have the unique advantage of having 2 excellent RBs who have great hands and we are often in 5 wide sets. The very nature of our offense uses the TE position rather sparingly, though Chandler did a great job maximizing his opportunities last year. The obvious response is "it gives us a unique wrinkle" or "so and so team uses them effectively", but I don't see either as particularly persuasive arguments, a the same could be said for any position on the team. It would be great to have better depth at every position, so why is everyone so intent on TE?

[Orton's Arm]

The bolded text is pure conjecture.

 

Here's what isn't:

 

Winfield was leveraging both the Jets and Vikings against the Bills at the time.

 

The second biggest contributing factor to the money was his eagerness to rejoin Ted Cottrell.

 

He didn't want to stay in Buffalo unless he would have been grossly overpaid to do so. He 'chose' to go.

 

GO BILLS!!!

The bolded is pure conjecture.

 

The Bills were unable to make Winfield a market-level offer, because TD had squandered his salary cap space on Troy Vincent and Lawyer Milloy.

[BuffBill]

Only time will tell how successful this off season has been, but it has given Bills fans more optimism then they have had in a decade. With that said, I would have liked them to address the receiver position across from Stevie Johnson. I think our WR position coupled with Fitz being just an average QB at best, unless he proves he can be consistent, might be our downfall on the offense, especially if injuries start mounting like they have the past few year. We have Johnson who in most peoples opinion is a borderline #1, or a very good #2 and a bunch of hopefuls with potential.

[K-9]

The bolded is pure conjecture.

 

The Bills were unable to make Winfield a market-level offer, because TD had squandered his salary cap space on Troy Vincent and Lawyer Milloy.

 

In your thread below, you said this:

 

The reason Antoine Winfield didn't become a success story for the Bills was because of their strategy of allowing their best DBs to go first-contract-and-out.

 

So which is it? The Bills employed the "strategy" of letting DBs go one and done or they just didn't have the cap room for Winfield?

 

The Bills made Winfield an offer and it just wasn't enough to make him stay. The chance to play for Cottrell again was the biggest reason he chose Minny. The Jets offered him just as much as the Vikings. Not paying a player above the market price is different that not making an offer. Winfield would have stayed if the Bills offered him a lot more money. Some might think that's a good thing to do. But when you don't have that franchise QB and you're many more players than a good CB away from the SB, it makes no sense at all to do so.

 

Regardless, Winfield "chose" to leave Buffalo. It was his decision entirely. I know that simple fact doesn't fit your revisionist line of thinking but so be it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Orton's Arm]

In your thread below, you said this:

 

 

 

So which is it? The Bills employed the "strategy" of letting DBs go one and done or they just didn't have the cap room for Winfield?

 

The Bills made Winfield an offer and it just wasn't enough to make him stay. The chance to play for Cottrell again was the biggest reason he chose Minny. The Jets offered him just as much as the Vikings. Not paying a player above the market price is different that not making an offer. Winfield would have stayed if the Bills offered him a lot more money. Some might think that's a good thing to do. But when you don't have that franchise QB and you're many more players than a good CB away from the SB, it makes no sense at all to do so.

 

Regardless, Winfield "chose" to leave Buffalo. It was his decision entirely. I know that simple fact doesn't fit your revisionist line of thinking but so be it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

The Bills made Winfield an offer? That's news to me. Do you have a link to support your claim?

 

When TD signed Lawyer Milloy and Troy Vincent to their expensive contracts, he knew he was using up the cap room he would have needed to extend Winfield. The decision to add those two players was also a decision to let Winfield go first-contract-and-out.

 

Edit: I just did a search, and found the following text from Bills Daily.

 

*******

Thursday, September 4th, 2003

 

Winfield Talks Over: The Bills were able to sign Lawyer Milloy after talks with Antoine Winfield broke down over the weekend. The money that was available to use on a contract extension for Winfield went to Milloy. Winfield said the two sides talked last week as the Bills did offer him an extension but the two sides can't agree. They may talk some more during the season but nothing will get done before next offseason with Winfeild likely testing the free agent waters.

********

 

The Bills did not make Winfield a credible offer when he hit free agency, and elected to stop negotiating with him a year before he became a free agent. It's not clear how serious they were about keeping him before TD decided to use the salary cap space on Lawyer Milloy instead.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Edwards' Arm

[atlbillsfan1975]

Yea, too bad Nix didn't start that rebuild on the O line two years ago...

 

Anyway, like other posters have already mentioned, a better option at #2 WR and tight end.

 

The Bills are still lacking that develop from scratch rookie QB. Still not happy with Pears and Ubrik at RT and RG, unless they move Hairston to RT.

They have been building the team the last two years very nicely. Urbik and Pears looked pretty solid last year early in the season. If/when Glenn solidifies himself at LT, you will probably get your wish of Hairston plying a lot of RT and spelling Glenn a series or two during the game his rookie season. The oline and Dline will be the strengths of this team now. So i guess it will just leave people to criticise that it wasn't done sooner.

[K-9]

The Bills made Winfield an offer? That's news to me. Do you have a link to support your claim?

 

When TD signed Lawyer Milloy and Troy Vincent to their expensive contracts, he knew he was using up the cap room he would have needed to extend Winfield. The decision to add those two players was also a decision to let Winfield go first-contract-and-out.

 

Edit: I just did a search, and found the following text from Bills Daily.

 

*******

Thursday, September 4th, 2003

 

Winfield Talks Over: The Bills were able to sign Lawyer Milloy after talks with Antoine Winfield broke down over the weekend. The money that was available to use on a contract extension for Winfield went to Milloy. Winfield said the two sides talked last week as the Bills did offer him an extension but the two sides can't agree. They may talk some more during the season but nothing will get done before next offseason with Winfeild likely testing the free agent waters.

********

 

The Bills did not make Winfield a credible offer when he hit free agency, and elected to stop negotiating with him a year before he became a free agent. It's not clear how serious they were about keeping him before TD decided to use the salary cap space on Lawyer Milloy instead.

 

Yep. As is mentioned in the very article you linked. As to it not being "clear" about how serious they were, that's part of my point. They would have had to have been "more serious" than the Vikings OR the Jets. In other words, they would have had to "overpay" for his services. If he were the reincarnation of Deion Sanders I could see the point. But Winfield, while good, was never in that class.

 

And, as I previously mentioned and you choose to dismiss, playing for Cottrell again was a big reason he chose Minny.

 

Winfield "chose" to leave Buffalo. Just like he "chose" to not accept their extension offer. It was his "choice" the entire time.

 

But you go right on believing the Bills have a "strategy" of letting DBs go one and done on their contracts and that teams have the ultimate control over whether or not they retain/lose their UFAs.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Orton's Arm]

Yep. As is mentioned in the very article you linked. As to it not being "clear" about how serious they were, that's part of my point. They would have had to have been "more serious" than the Vikings OR the Jets. In other words, they would have had to "overpay" for his services. If he were the reincarnation of Deion Sanders I could see the point. But Winfield, while good, was never in that class.

 

And, as I previously mentioned and you choose to dismiss, playing for Cottrell again was a big reason he chose Minny.

 

Winfield "chose" to leave Buffalo. Just like he "chose" to not accept their extension offer. It was his "choice" the entire time.

 

But you go right on believing the Bills have a "strategy" of letting DBs go one and done on their contracts and that teams have the ultimate control over whether or not they retain/lose their UFAs.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Your post contains a great deal of speculation presented as fact. To address the confusion you are creating, I will separate what we know from what is merely conjectured.

 

What we know:

- The Bills and Winfield had been discussing an extension

- The Bills broke off those talks a year before Winfield hit free agency

- The Bills used the Winfield salary cap money on Lawyer Milloy

 

The speculation you have presented as fact:

- The Bills' offer to Winfield was comparable to the offers he would receive a year later from the Vikings and Jets

- The Bills could only have retained Winfield by overpaying for his services

- Locking up Winfield a year before he hit free agency, at a price similar to what he later received from the Vikings, was never an option.

 

If you have links to support anything from the latter list, by all means do so.

[K-9]

Your post contains a great deal of speculation presented as fact. To address the confusion you are creating, I will separate what we know from what is merely conjectured.

 

What we know:

- The Bills and Winfield had been discussing an extension

- The Bills broke off those talks a year before Winfield hit free agency

- The Bills used the Winfield salary cap money on Lawyer Milloy

 

The speculation you have presented as fact:

- The Bills' offer to Winfield was comparable to the offers he would receive a year later from the Vikings and Jets

- The Bills could only have retained Winfield by overpaying for his services

- Locking up Winfield a year before he hit free agency, at a price similar to what he later received from the Vikings, was never an option.

 

If you have links to support anything from the latter list, by all means do so.

 

It's common practice for teams to terminate contract discussions during the regular season. Especially after the player declines to accept. Happens all the time. That's beside the point.

 

The point is, it was Winfield's choice to accept or decline the Bills' extension offer. He chose not to. He chose to take Minny's offer over the Jets' when he became a free agent. That is not speculation, that is what transpired.

 

Playing for Cottrell again was a big reason he chose to go to Minny. Do you honestly believe if the Bills (or the Jets for that matter) simply matched Minny's offer, he'd have re-signed with us? You think we (and the Jets for that matter) wouldn't have had to pay a premium to mitigate his desire to play for Cottrell?

 

He chose to leave. That's not speculation. That is what transpired.

 

Having the choice to play for another team is what being a free agent is all about. It's when the player gets to choose whom he plays for next. I'm pretty sure you know that. But that doesn't support your theory (speculation) that the Bills deliberately employed a strategy to let players go one and done on their contracts so you ignore it.

 

The only speculation I make is saying that we would have had to pay well over market price to retain Winfield's services. I submit that would have made sense if he was the second coming of Deion Sanders. While that is speculation, it is informed speculation.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Orton's Arm]

It's common practice for teams to terminate contract discussions during the regular season. Especially after the player declines to accept. Happens all the time. That's beside the point.

 

The point is, it was Winfield's choice to accept or decline the Bills' extension offer. He chose not to. He chose to take Minny's offer over the Jets' when he became a free agent. That is not speculation, that is what transpired.

 

Playing for Cottrell again was a big reason he chose to go to Minny. Do you honestly believe if the Bills (or the Jets for that matter) simply matched Minny's offer, he'd have re-signed with us? You think we (and the Jets for that matter) wouldn't have had to pay a premium to mitigate his desire to play for Cottrell?

 

He chose to leave. That's not speculation. That is what transpired.

 

Having the choice to play for another team is what being a free agent is all about. It's when the player gets to choose whom he plays for next. I'm pretty sure you know that. But that doesn't support your theory (speculation) that the Bills deliberately employed a strategy to let players go one and done on their contracts so you ignore it.

 

The only speculation I make is saying that we would have had to pay well over market price to retain Winfield's services. I submit that would have made sense if he was the second coming of Deion Sanders. While that is speculation, it is informed speculation.

 

GO BILLS!!!

The Bills terminated contract negotiations with Winfield because they'd used his salary cap room on Lawyer Milloy instead. It's quite possible that, had they continued those negotiations, they could have signed him for a salary equal to or less than the money the Vikings offered him a year later. You may well be right about saying he wanted to play for Cottrell. On the other hand, it's human nature to value a bird in the hand more than two in the bush. Had the Bills shown Winfield the kind of money he'd see a year later (from the Jets and Vikings), I think he would have taken it. And would have justified it to himself with the thought that his financial future was on the line, and that the Bills' offer had secured it.

 

Once the Bills signed Milloy, they lacked the salary cap space to seriously compete for Winfield's services. The decision to let Winfield go first-contract-and-out was made a year before Winfield hit free agency.

[biggerdaddynj]

This off-season was outstanding--re-signed players we needed, FA was a dream come true and the draft was very good (I reserve the right to disagree with the Graham pick until proven otherwise). My only complaint was not bringing in a legit #2 WR. I know there weren't many out there (in FA) but I think we could have addressed the need (in FA or via the draft). If that's all I can find to complain about, that speaks volumes about how well things went. As for QB, we're building a solid foundation for whoever we end up drafting next year to be our franchise QB. Our future is brighter than that of many other teams.

Edited June 4, 2012 by biggerdaddynj

[K-9]

The Bills terminated contract negotiations with Winfield because they'd used his salary cap room on Lawyer Milloy instead. It's quite possible that, had they continued those negotiations, they could have signed him for a salary equal to or less than the money the Vikings offered him a year later. You may well be right about saying he wanted to play for Cottrell. On the other hand, it's human nature to value a bird in the hand more than two in the bush. Had the Bills shown Winfield the kind of money he'd see a year later (from the Jets and Vikings), I think he would have taken it. And would have justified it to himself with the thought that his financial future was on the line, and that the Bills' offer had secured it.

 

Once the Bills signed Milloy, they lacked the salary cap space to seriously compete for Winfield's services. The decision to let Winfield go first-contract-and-out was made a year before Winfield hit free agency.

 

Your own linked article says otherwise. They were able to sign Malloy AFTER talks with Winfield broke down. Not vice-versa.

 

Winfield chose not to accept the Bills offer.

 

Winfield would have been foolish not to test FAgency.

 

And the Bills would have been foolish to overpay.

 

Regardless, it was Winfield's choice all along. That's the entire point.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited June 4, 2012 by K-9

[LynchMob23]

Stevie and his agents chose to push the extension talks off into the off-season after nothing came of their training camp chats. He then chose to take the extension in the off-season. Choice is a marvelous thing, no?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

This off-season was outstanding--re-signed players we needed, FA was a dream come true and the draft was very good (I reserve the right to disagree with the Graham pick until proven otherwise). My only complaint was not bringing in a legit #2 WR. I know there weren't many out there (in FA) but I think we could have addressed the need (in FA or via the draft). If that's all I can find to complain about, that speaks volumes about how well things went. As for QB, we're building a solid foundation for whoever we end up drafting next year to be our franchise QB. Our future is brighter than that of many other teams.

 

You're one of the few other people here who seem to see the Bills as headed this way, whether or not Fitz has a good year.

[WildBills]

Biggest mistake the Bills made was not finding themselves a legit #2 wide receiver.

[Bufcomments]

We are all quite aware of the wildly succesfull free agency period and draft the Bills have had this off season.

But where do my fellow posters think they have come up short. Or made the incorrect choice. My only disagreement with there moves was to let D. Florence go and keep Mcgee. Why? Simple Florence was able to stay healthy and on the field. If Mcgee is healthy he is a better player. This is my only beef.

McGee when healed up is a damn good CB. Florence was getting burnt way to often last yr. He did make some good plays but too many bad ones. Plus McGee was keep for cheap this yr. This might be one of those things where they keep McGee over Florence because he is a pro on and off the field and can show the younger guys how to be a pro.

 

I like the choice Buddy made.

 

I cant find fault in any of the moves this offseason. It has made me very excitied about the upcoming season because they have gotten better. On paper at least.

[KD in CA]

But his plan failed. What was the next plan? He wasn't the only option out there.

 

The next plan was to draft one, which they did. What they didn't do (thankfully) is panic and overpay a guy like Manningham.

[Turbosrrgood]

We are all quite aware of the wildly succesfull free agency period and draft the Bills have had this off season.

But where do my fellow posters think they have come up short. Or made the incorrect choice. My only disagreement with there moves was to let D. Florence go and keep Mcgee. Why? Simple Florence was able to stay healthy and on the field. If Mcgee is healthy he is a better player. This is my only beef.

 

 

I would have liked to see a starting caliber receiver picked up, but the Bills did such a good job filling other holes I can't consider that to be "something they did wrong". It's only possible to fill so many gaps in one season.

 

 

What I DO think they did wrong, was the drafting of TJ Graham with the 3rd pick. No I'm not a pro scout, but what I have seen from this guy is all bad. Very poor hands, an inability to deal with contact (Jamming, vying for position on deep balls, or catching the ball over the middle). There were some really good WR prospects still available at the time IMO, and they traded up for this guy. He potentially could have gone undrafted according to some analysts.

 

I have absolutely loved what Nix has done other than this one move though, so by no means am I trashing him. Hopefully he just knows something about Graham that the rest of the world does not...

 

The next plan was to draft one, which they did. What they didn't do (thankfully) is panic and overpay a guy like Manningham.

 

+1000

 

That was a fear for me. Manningham is so overrated having played with Nix, Cruz, and Manning. He is average at best, and more suited as a 3rd option for some team IMO. Just like he was in NY.

 

I would have loved Garcon, who wasn't overly expensive.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[thewildrabbit]

They have been building the team the last two years very nicely. Urbik and Pears looked pretty solid last year early in the season. If/when Glenn solidifies himself at LT, you will probably get your wish of Hairston plying a lot of RT and spelling Glenn a series or two during the game his rookie season. The oline and Dline will be the strengths of this team now. So i guess it will just leave people to criticise that it wasn't done sooner.

That O line is no where near a team strength...

 

 

Center Eric wood has spent the last two seasons ending up on the IR, I love the guy but the team has a dire need at depth at the center position. The Bills drafted some late round picks to fill in for depth at OT & Center, but what happened to the last batch of later round O line players the Bills drafted?

 

The right side of that O line is still waiver wire castoffs from other teams. Since the Bills employed a fast paced short passing game last season that has Fitz getting rid of the ball in 2 seconds or under, it simply wasn't that difficult to hold a pass block last year. Still Fitz took a great deal of pressures and hits after he got rid of the ball. The second half of last season Fitz had some difficulty in keeping that offense rolling. The WR injuries & line injuries to the LT and center positions were the killers. Most teams had already figured out that the Bills didn't have a good mid- range passing game and their deep passing game was basically nonexistent. This made defending that bills offense so much easier then a normal NFL offense that can throw short, mid and deep passes.

 

Now that teams know what to expect in Chan Gailey's offense the Bills need to open up the mid to deep passing game to change things up. Probably why they drafted speedster WR TJ Graham. In order to do that the QB will need a pocket to step up into and more time in the pocket to take the 5-7 step drops. when the Bills do that the OT's will need to hold their blocks longer then 2 seconds, possibly 3-5 seconds.

 

.With a rookie at LT and 2nd year player behind him, and that right side being what it is.... I just don't see that Bills having much success at anything other then that short passing game again this year. So yea, Nix should have started rebuilding that O line 3 year ago, and just about now they would be seasoned enough to play very well.