DC Grid Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I keep hearing about how this guy is a monster, heard how his Senior Bowl performance was great and meant he'd shoot up the draft board, going as high as top 5...but watching the guy in the Senior Bowl and reading up on it, I just dont get it. The knock on Coples has been he lacks heart and the desire to be those force he physically can be. People have been eager given his build and school to compare him to J Peppers, but at every turn he's done enough to make even his greatest supporters say such a comparisson is waay off. In the Senior Bowl he played decently. Largely going against Collegiate Right Tackles in the game he registered one sack and 3-4 preasures....but thats it. For an elite prospect playing in a game worth more to his financial future than any other game he didnt seem to dominate. He often was easily nutralized by an RT who wont be drafted in the top two rounds and may never start at RT in the NFL. Im not saying he's going to bust, but from what he showed at the senior bowl he does seem like a guy who's motor isnt always going, and I just dont know why giving him millions in guaranteed money would do anything to change that. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Maybe you're looking at one game too closely. The kids got talent. He has the tools to be an impact player. I'm not certain how motivated an elite player is to knock heads in an all star game. The Pros certainly don't. I think a balls-to-the-wall performance in the Sr. Bowl can make players stock shoot up artificially, but a guy like Couples - what - he'll move up from 10 to 5? With the rookie pay scale in place a few spots doesn't necessarily mean a lot of lost money. Especially if there are a couple of OTs taken in the top 5 - 10 spots. Maybe he's doggin' it so he drops to The Bills at 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welborn9 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I keep hearing about how this guy is a monster, heard how his Senior Bowl performance was great and meant he'd shoot up the draft board, going as high as top 5...but watching the guy in the Senior Bowl and reading up on it, I just dont get it. The knock on Coples has been he lacks heart and the desire to be those force he physically can be. People have been eager given his build and school to compare him to J Peppers, but at every turn he's done enough to make even his greatest supporters say such a comparisson is waay off. In the Senior Bowl he played decently. Largely going against Collegiate Right Tackles in the game he registered one sack and 3-4 preasures....but thats it. For an elite prospect playing in a game worth more to his financial future than any other game he didnt seem to dominate. He often was easily nutralized by an RT who wont be drafted in the top two rounds and may never start at RT in the NFL. Im not saying he's going to bust, but from what he showed at the senior bowl he does seem like a guy who's motor isnt always going, and I just dont know why giving him millions in guaranteed money would do anything to change that. What am I missing? Your not missing a damn thing.... I didnt watch to much of UNC this year so with pass rusher being what the Bills so desperatly need, I was excited to see what Coples was all about. Needless to say I came away from Senior Bowl Week feeling the same way you do. I paid close attention to Coples...Upshaw and Ingram (and a few others on the North team but mainly those three) and Coples was clearly the lesser of the three. In one on one's he lost wayyyyy more times then he won..he played high and had no where near a Top 10 burst. In the game all his plays were made against projected guards that were playing OT. Although you never know when it comes to the draft (or FA or anything else for that matter) I will not be happy if we draft him. Now Ingram on the other hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Grid Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Maybe you're looking at one game too closely. The kids got talent. He has the tools to be an impact player. I'm not certain how motivated an elite player is to knock heads in an all star game. The Pros certainly don't. I think a balls-to-the-wall performance in the Sr. Bowl can make players stock shoot up artificially, but a guy like Couples - what - he'll move up from 10 to 5? With the rookie pay scale in place a few spots doesn't necessarily mean a lot of lost money. Especially if there are a couple of OTs taken in the top 5 - 10 spots. Maybe he's doggin' it so he drops to The Bills at 10. Pros dog the pro bowl because it is pointless. The Senior Bowl is an evaluation tool every bit as important as the combine. Von Miller went balls out last year, Upshaw did this year. Edited February 12, 2012 by DC Grid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I keep hearing about how this guy is a monster, heard how his Senior Bowl performance was great and meant he'd shoot up the draft board, going as high as top 5...but watching the guy in the Senior Bowl and reading up on it, I just dont get it. The knock on Coples has been he lacks heart and the desire to be those force he physically can be. People have been eager given his build and school to compare him to J Peppers, but at every turn he's done enough to make even his greatest supporters say such a comparisson is waay off. In the Senior Bowl he played decently. Largely going against Collegiate Right Tackles in the game he registered one sack and 3-4 preasures....but thats it. For an elite prospect playing in a game worth more to his financial future than any other game he didnt seem to dominate. He often was easily nutralized by an RT who wont be drafted in the top two rounds and may never start at RT in the NFL. Im not saying he's going to bust, but from what he showed at the senior bowl he does seem like a guy who's motor isnt always going, and I just dont know why giving him millions in guaranteed money would do anything to change that. What am I missing? What's not to get??? I'm 1000% serious when I say this. The guy is 6'6" 281 LBs and is considered the best defensive prospect in the draft! Were you one of those guys that criticized Orakpo because of the school he went to or other meaningless dribble? The guy is a beast. We would be lucky as hell if he dropped to us. If you thought he didn't impress in the senior bowl and all the activities and disagree with almost literally EVERY scout and talent evaluater there who do you think actually stood out? I mean really, WHO? Are we talking Upshaw's 15 second coverage sack? Come on man. You guys with your ridiculous agendas are crazy. I like Upshaw as he looks like he would be a solid contributor but he isn't going to rack up sacks running unabated to the QB like he did in college. I think he will be our pick but if for some reason Coples falls you take him and don't think twice. Haven't seen enough of Ingram yet but his stock could rise depending on the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Grid Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) What's not to get??? I'm 1000% serious when I say this. The guy is 6'6" 281 LBs and is considered the best defensive prospect in the draft! Were you one of those guys that criticized Orakpo because of the school he went to or other meaningless dribble? The guy is a beast. We would be lucky as hell if he dropped to us. If you thought he didn't impress in the senior bowl and all the activities and disagree with almost literally EVERY scout and talent evaluater there who do you think actually stood out? I mean really, WHO? Are we talking Upshaw's 15 second coverage sack? Come on man. You guys with your ridiculous agendas are crazy. I like Upshaw as he looks like he would be a solid contributor but he isn't going to rack up sacks running unabated to the QB like he did in college. I think he will be our pick but if for some reason Coples falls you take him and don't think twice. Haven't seen enough of Ingram yet but his stock could rise depending on the combine. For starters, I wanted them to draft Orakpo...he was peaking as a senior, never routinely quit on plays, generally looked like a stud...even if alot of the "experts" you cite to didn't think nearly as much of him as you say they do for Coples. Draft history is littered with examples of players with all the talent in the world who fail because they dont have the heart. Coples to me seems like another in that long line. If you doubt me on this, do take notice that almost every draft guru says how great coples' physical talent is, but notes his lack of consistency. They do this so later if / when he doesnt pan out they can say they called it. Now dont get me wrong, if he's there at 10 and Ingram and or Upshaw arent he very well could be worth the risk. But I wouldnt cry if he didnt fall to us...and I really wouldnt want to see the Bills trade up to get him. Edited February 12, 2012 by DC Grid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The thing I notice about Coples is that he lacks NFL techniques and pass rushing moves, most of what he does seems to be based on just being a superior athlete- for this years draft of defensive linemen Coples and Brockers have the most upside but they are both raw - someone like Ingram probably will be able to contribute more his first year but might not have the upside- as for lack of heart I find that believable if a coach says it but fans can't tell the difference between lack of heart and injury or changes that makes an athlete think instead of reacting- change of position assignment or techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The original word on Couples was strictly a 3-4 def. end and only had 5 and 1/2 sacks this year. Then he supposedly had a great senior bowl week. Not sold on him. Would rather have Ingram or even Zack Brown (also not sold on Sheppard. Can't believe they are handing him the starting MLB job). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I keep hearing about how this guy is a monster, heard how his Senior Bowl performance was great and meant he'd shoot up the draft board, going as high as top 5...but watching the guy in the Senior Bowl and reading up on it, I just dont get it. The knock on Coples has been he lacks heart and the desire to be those force he physically can be. People have been eager given his build and school to compare him to J Peppers, but at every turn he's done enough to make even his greatest supporters say such a comparisson is waay off. In the Senior Bowl he played decently. Largely going against Collegiate Right Tackles in the game he registered one sack and 3-4 preasures....but thats it. For an elite prospect playing in a game worth more to his financial future than any other game he didnt seem to dominate. He often was easily nutralized by an RT who wont be drafted in the top two rounds and may never start at RT in the NFL. Im not saying he's going to bust, but from what he showed at the senior bowl he does seem like a guy who's motor isnt always going, and I just dont know why giving him millions in guaranteed money would do anything to change that. What am I missing? you're basing your opinion on a game most scouts dont even stick around for...and since when is one sack and 3-4 pressures not considered good anyway? Coples can play inside or out and makes a ton of plays behind the line of scrimmage maybe you should try basing your opinion on real games over the course of his career rather then one game that isnt even considered meaningful seriously, this is dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 At least we're talking about Coples, Ingram and Upshaw instead of Kirkpatrick or any other DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welborn9 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The original word on Couples was strictly a 3-4 def. end and only had 5 and 1/2 sacks this year. Then he supposedly had a great senior bowl week. Not sold on him. Would rather have Ingram or even Zack Brown (also not sold on Sheppard. Can't believe they are handing him the starting MLB job). Sheppard is the only Prototypical 4-3 MLB on the roster. He's been given that position by his production/default. Zach Brown is 6'2 230. You do not want somebody that small manning the middle. In our D he would play with Weak side OLB which Barnette will have no truble with. you're basing your opinion on a game most scouts dont even stick around for...and since when is one sack and 3-4 pressures not considered good anyway? Coples can play inside or out and makes a ton of plays behind the line of scrimmage maybe you should try basing your opinion on real games over the course of his career rather then one game that isnt even considered meaningful seriously, this is dumb Keep the one sack and 3-4 pressures in perspective. They were against players that are projected RT and G at the next level. Mayock mentioned that litteraly when it was happening and every scout that I follow on twitter made sure everybody took note of that. One thing I agree on is that most scouts dont stick around for the game. However during the week, when Coples was matched up against true LT prospects he lost more times then he won. Theres pleny reason not to be impressed with him so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yeah Vin Curry looked like the best pass-rusher in that game. I even saw Coples get knocked on his butt. He doesn`t have a burst. He is a push type pass rusher. Get blocked easily against good tackles. Not worth the 10 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Grid Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 you're basing your opinion on a game most scouts dont even stick around for...and since when is one sack and 3-4 pressures not considered good anyway? Coples can play inside or out and makes a ton of plays behind the line of scrimmage maybe you should try basing your opinion on real games over the course of his career rather then one game that isnt even considered meaningful seriously, this is dumb Well in "real games" he took a lot of downs off and registered 7.5 sacks. Take away the 4 sacks tallied against division 2 James Madison, and the fake division 1 team, Duke, and all Coples tallied against moderate ACC talent was 3.5 sacks. In the bowl game this year vs MO he registered all of three tackles and an assist. Totalling it up, that's a pretty pathetic year for a top ten NFL draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I keep hearing about how this guy is a monster, heard how his Senior Bowl performance was great and meant he'd shoot up the draft board, going as high as top 5...but watching the guy in the Senior Bowl and reading up on it, I just dont get it. The knock on Coples has been he lacks heart and the desire to be those force he physically can be. People have been eager given his build and school to compare him to J Peppers, but at every turn he's done enough to make even his greatest supporters say such a comparisson is waay off. In the Senior Bowl he played decently. Largely going against Collegiate Right Tackles in the game he registered one sack and 3-4 preasures....but thats it. For an elite prospect playing in a game worth more to his financial future than any other game he didnt seem to dominate. He often was easily nutralized by an RT who wont be drafted in the top two rounds and may never start at RT in the NFL. Im not saying he's going to bust, but from what he showed at the senior bowl he does seem like a guy who's motor isnt always going, and I just dont know why giving him millions in guaranteed money would do anything to change that. What am I missing? Nothing hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 He reminds me of Robert Quinn from last years draft. Do not want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) He reminds me of Robert Quinn from last years draft. Do not want Yea the 5 sacks and blocked punts as a rookie would really leave me disappointed. Edited February 13, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm a Carolina fan so I watch most of their games, and I wouldn't touch Coples in the top 10. I expected SO much more out of him this past season. Unless something suddenly clicks, I don't see Coples having the true desire to put in the work necessary for him to be an elite NFL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm a Carolina fan so I watch most of their games, and I wouldn't touch Coples in the top 10. I expected SO much more out of him this past season. Unless something suddenly clicks, I don't see Coples having the true desire to put in the work necessary for him to be an elite NFL player. THIS The original word on Couples was strictly a 3-4 def. end and only had 5 and 1/2 sacks this year. Then he supposedly had a great senior bowl week. Not sold on him. Would rather have Ingram or even Zack Brown (also not sold on Sheppard. Can't believe they are handing him the starting MLB job). Not sold on Sheppard at all either. If we could somehow get Burfict ,then we would have a real MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The original word on Couples was strictly a 3-4 def. end and only had 5 and 1/2 sacks this year. Then he supposedly had a great senior bowl week. Not sold on him. Would rather have Ingram or even Zack Brown (also not sold on Sheppard. Can't believe they are handing him the starting MLB job). I wouldn't be too concerned about that. There's a difference between naming him the starter and handing him the job. The coaches have given him a challenge. Good players respond and that's what they want to see him do. He seems to have the mental aspect down as they entrusted him with calling the D signals. I'm hoping an off season of NFL training and conditioning as well as a full slate of OTAs, etc. will get him up to speed physically. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelmonSmith6378 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I keep hearing about how this guy is a monster, heard how his Senior Bowl performance was great and meant he'd shoot up the draft board, going as high as top 5...but watching the guy in the Senior Bowl and reading up on it, I just dont get it. The knock on Coples has been he lacks heart and the desire to be those force he physically can be. People have been eager given his build and school to compare him to J Peppers, but at every turn he's done enough to make even his greatest supporters say such a comparisson is waay off. In the Senior Bowl he played decently. Largely going against Collegiate Right Tackles in the game he registered one sack and 3-4 preasures....but thats it. For an elite prospect playing in a game worth more to his financial future than any other game he didnt seem to dominate. He often was easily nutralized by an RT who wont be drafted in the top two rounds and may never start at RT in the NFL. Im not saying he's going to bust, but from what he showed at the senior bowl he does seem like a guy who's motor isnt always going, and I just dont know why giving him millions in guaranteed money would do anything to change that. What am I missing? Simeon Rice lacked heart and desire. And look how far that guy went. I think the guy will be a solid, while not spectacular end. Brandon Jenkins on the other hand...That guy's THE FUTURE of the defensive end mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It doesn't matter as he will be gone by the time Buffalo picks at 10th. the combine isn't even here and he is already moving up on everyone's boards. Top pass rushers are next after QB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 He reminds me of Robert Quinn from last years draft. Do not want uhhh how so? besides the fact they both went to NC, they're not really alike in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Every year we get obsessed with a few players and severely over value them. There is also this ridiculous notion that draft boards are incredibly fluid and guys are constantly moving up and down. Thats simply untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) For starters, I wanted them to draft Orakpo...he was peaking as a senior, never routinely quit on plays, generally looked like a stud...even if alot of the "experts" you cite to didn't think nearly as much of him as you say they do for Coples. Draft history is littered with examples of players with all the talent in the world who fail because they dont have the heart. Coples to me seems like another in that long line. If you doubt me on this, do take notice that almost every draft guru says how great coples' physical talent is, but notes his lack of consistency. They do this so later if / when he doesnt pan out they can say they called it. Now dont get me wrong, if he's there at 10 and Ingram and or Upshaw arent he very well could be worth the risk. But I wouldnt cry if he didnt fall to us...and I really wouldnt want to see the Bills trade up to get him. At least you have a more open minded view. I am not worried about the supposed consistency issues and motivation. Things like this are alleged all the time by various sources. As I mentioned to another poster nobody has a list of all the players that "motivation" has been listed as an issue so when we say things like "another in a long line" we really have no factual data to back it up or ability to come up with any sort of success or failure rate. It's pure unfounded speculation that can't be confirmed. One thing I do know is that consistency can be taught with experience and good coaching. The alleged motivational issues even if they actually did exist at the college level can also be addressed at the pro level with coaching, leadership and teammates. What can't be taught is a 6'6" 281 lb monster who played against double teams and has the ability to play DE, DT and possibly even LB in some situations. This guy looks like he could be one of the Giants defensive lineman that got after Brady and denied him yet another ring. As I have stated I would be cool with Upshaw and love the fact he is from Alabama where Dareus played. Dareus should be able to give us the inside scoop on what the kid has. If he has the goods Marcel should be a very vocal advocate for his acquisition. Edited February 14, 2012 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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