Jason Peters -- First Team All-Pro

[Coach Tuesday]

Bell is good when healthy.

 

The impact Peters would have had on this oline is minimal at best.

 

Two statements that are proof positive you know squat about football.

 

EDIT: honestly, this might be the most ridiculous post I've ever seen...

Edited January 6, 2012 by Coach Tuesday

[PDaDdy]

How much better would the Bills O-line be with Peters, considering the NFL ranks us #1? BTW the Eagles rank #11.

 

PTR

 

 

Well we would still probably be ranked #1 in sacks specifically but Fitz would have 3+ seconds to throw not 2 or fewer? Nice try though providing stats in a vacuum without discussing all and the most important factors in how they were obtained. Fitz was ranked as second fasted QB in the league getting rid of the ball. I think that might have just a LITTLE bit to do with it eh?

[Endless Ike]

Only idiots trade young, sure thing All-Pro talent for potential.

 

Regardless of how it shakes out, it was a horrible decision.

[Kelly the Dog]

Do they ever overpay for coaches? Facilities? Scouting staff? In the situations you're referring to where they've "overpaid," they seem to cut or trade those players pretty quickly, so they don't actually end up ballooning their personnel costs. I agree with you that they can't evlauate their own roster, but I'm convinced they aren't willing to make the investment necessary to compete long-term.

I agree about paying coaches. The facilities are fine and the training camp facilities are likely the very best in the league. The scouting staff I don't think is cheap on paying but i don't know. I think we may need better scouts but a lot of times all a scout can do is make suggestions and the guy at the top pulling the trigger is the one responsible.

 

I think they can easily compete long term if they just made a few better choices along the way with draft picks and FA and re-signing their own players.

[C.Biscuit97]

Two statements that are proof positive you know squat about football.

 

EDIT: honestly, this might be the most ridiculous post I've ever seen...

 

Your motives are pretty clear. You're a whiney douche who's only purpose is to bash the Bills for everything. I'm done with you.

[Best Player Available]

Bell is good when healthy.

 

The impact Peters would have had on this oline is minimal at best.

I have to respectfully disagree on Peters. I was no supporter of how he went about business. The trade in my eyes was good for us.

 

But come on Bell is not in the same league as Peters, cannot stay on the field, is a free agent in several weeks and probably not the answer long term.

I have a lousy gut feeling that in 2012 the left side will be hairston and the right will be pears. That is typical Bills fashion. And it is wrong.

Then again they could go left tackle in the first if their is a great one there and make a lot of people happy. Of course it seems a lot of NFL teams and

good ones neglect their O-lines. So were by far not setting a precedent here.

[Kelly the Dog]

As one of the biggest Evans fans around and someone who hated the deal at first, you have to be the biggest Bills hater to crush that deal after the "season" Evans just had.

Unless Evans had a previous ankle injury that no one knew about, there is ZERO reason to believe he would have been hurt on the Bills. That is another completely foolish argument, IMO. You're on a roll today!

[C.Biscuit97]

Well we would still probably be ranked #1 in sacks specifically but Fitz would have 3+ seconds to throw not 2 or fewer? Nice try though providing stats in a vacuum without discussing all and the most important factors in how they were obtained. Fitz was ranked as second fasted QB in the league getting rid of the ball. I think that might have just a LITTLE bit to do with it eh?

 

What about 2 separate running backs averaging 5 ypc? Oh I forgot that they are both Barry Sanders.

 

The Bilsl have sucked for a decade. But some of you are the biggest freaking haters on the planets and can't even give them any credit at all. But crying about it on an internet board is doing wonders!!!

[Best Player Available]

Well we would still probably be ranked #1 in sacks specifically but Fitz would have 3+ seconds to throw not 2 or fewer? Nice try though providing stats in a vacuum without discussing all and the most important factors in how they were obtained. Fitz was ranked as second fasted QB in the league getting rid of the ball. I think that might have just a LITTLE bit to do with it eh?

+1 spot on

[NoSaint]

WRONG!!! What a loser attitude. We screwed up not Peters. Maybe you are a big enough wuss to get a promotion with twice the responsibility and continue to work at your old salary for 2 years but most people have balls and want to get paid when they get promoted.

 

This is professional football. Any job other than professional sports you can leave your job tomorrow and go make 3 times your salary somewhere else if someone is willing to pay it to you and you are worth it. Because of contracts which owners can tear up and void at any moment a player's only recourse is to hold out. That's the nature of the game and the business. Quit acting like a little girl and whining about it. Buffalo's front office didn't handle things well. Peters was using the only strategy available to him other than working for relative peanuts for years.

 

What a joke.

 

Ill agree he deserved more money for his play, but not just for a position switch. If thats the case, are you advocating that he deserves to give some back since he isnt on vicks blindside? that is a demotion in your book afterall. his play grew faster than his contract and he frankly wasnt THAT patient with it. Did he deserve more? sure. did he handle it well? nope. Neither side did really. instead of being a proactive discussion it devolved into a game of chicken and no one wins at that point.

 

and sure a team can tear up the contract any time you want but that signing bonus still feels mighty good in a players pocket if they are cut for not living up to the play expected.

 

and no, not every job can you walk to the competition any time you want. in fact quite a few million dollar jobs come with non-compete clauses when you leave.

Edited January 6, 2012 by NoSaint

[PDaDdy]

I agreeto a certain extent. But a few questions for you:

 

1) Do you think the Bills should have craved for Peters? Especially after they just handed him a new contract 2 years ago? Trust me, I'm 100% on board with players getting every cent they can. But there are ways to do it. If Fred Jackson doesn't get paid, I will crucify the Bills because he handled his business the right way. Peters pouted, didn't answer phone calls, and put his teammates' health at risk. That sets a bad precedent.

 

I don't look at it as caving. I look at it as paying a guy what he is worth. Nobody seems to recall he signed that contract as a RT. He was then promoted to LT and started making probowls. He should have been pissed about being promoted and not getting a pay raise.

 

2) If both Bell and Wood stayed healthy, I would make that trade for Peters (who has struggled to stay healthy himself). Peters is a better LT tackle that Bell, but Bell is a very solid LT when healthy. Wood can be a pro bowl center if healthy.

 

Bell sucks and has nothing to do with Peters. Wood could have easily been drafted with our other first round pick that we used on Maybin. Technically I don't even consider the two linked despite the obvious.

 

3) You are oversimplify things by selecting certain players. IMO, certain positions make more of a difference than others. A stud MLB like Willis would have made a huge difference on our team and could have won us some more games. In today's game, a stud wr like Johnson makes more of a difference than ever. He probably could have gotten a huge catch to secure a win that Jones wasn't capable of. And we all know what a pass rusher like Ware would have done for this team.

 

Not sure what relevance this statement has at all. Peters is a perennial probowler.

 

IMO, LTs don't win games and Peters would have had little if any impact on our record. Joe Thomas and Jake Long are the 2 best LTs and play for losing teams. Matt Ryan isn't as good of a QB as Long is a LT but because QBs make such a huge difference was a better pick #1 overall.

 

Useless statement. No individual player including QBs don't win games. Teams win games. Teams win games by having great talent at as many positions as they can and coaching them well. LT being one of the more important positions helps the success of the team. That is so unbelievable simple I hope you understand it.

 

Additionally, the pining for Peters just seems ill timed (though it makes for a good dicussion). We jsut gave up the fewest sacks in the NFL and averaged over 5 ypc carry. I know no one likes to give our oline any credit at all, but that's pretty good.

 

It's not pining it rubbing it in the face of all the whiny bills fans who were oh so worried about Peters taking more of Ralph's money. We have the fewest sacks in the league because we were the second fastest team at getting rid of the ball. I'm sure you can see how the QB can't be sacked if he doesn't have the ball right?

 

So in short, Jason Peters would made little impact on this team while taking up a lot of cap space. He is a good LT but good LTs don't mean as much as a stud QB, MLB, or pass rusher. I'm sure Eagles' fans are celebrating their All Pro LT. Good dicussion though and happy Friday.

 

So...in short Peters had a huge impact on his team protecting Vick's left side on an island without constant TE double teams and RB chip block help. LT is an extremely important position and trying to devalue it by comparing it to QB which is THE most important is laughable. Peters is ELITE. We should have paid him. We didn't...get over it. Stop making excuses for our front office screwing up and move on.

[K-9]

Two statements that are proof positive you know squat about football.

 

EDIT: honestly, this might be the most ridiculous post I've ever seen...

 

From a statistical vantage point, C. Bisquit is right.

 

From a schematic viewpoint I believe Peters would have given Gailey some flexibility in his design which is to clearly minimize pass-pro mistakes. I also think Peters would have thrived in a spread as it pertains to run blocking as did everybody else on the OLine this year. Our OLine was very successful working against a spread out defense. And Peters would have dominated, no doubt.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[C.Biscuit97]

Unless Evans had a previous ankle injury that no one knew about, there is ZERO reason to believe he would have been hurt on the Bills. That is another completely foolish argument, IMO. You're on a roll today!

 

Here I thought you had some class and you have to throw insults as well. Unfortunately, it doesn't strengthen your argument. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6772/career;_ylt=Aiu8YD2cS_XhTuYRvjjIhRv.uLYF Evans' stat line. What seems to be the pattern? Hmm. But I forgot. most players tend to get better when they turn 30. Evans also never missed a game until last season. He's now missed 10 in the last 2 seasons. But again in your world, most players get healthy after they turn 30. Great point.

 

Either way, all the Bills haters can unite and have a circle jerk again. Let's bring up Whitner and James Hardy too!!! Some of you still cry about the girl that dumped you in 1st grade I bet. Anyways, I got a great work schedule and it's time for happy hour. good discussion. AND THE BILLS ARE THE WORST TEAM EVER AND THERE IS NO HOPE!!! Hopefully, they will get better in LA!!!

[PDaDdy]

What about 2 separate running backs averaging 5 ypc? Oh I forgot that they are both Barry Sanders.

 

The Bilsl have sucked for a decade. But some of you are the biggest freaking haters on the planets and can't even give them any credit at all. But crying about it on an internet board is doing wonders!!!

 

Nobody is Barry Sanders but they are both REALLY good. I'll give you that our line is definitely better at run blocking than it is at pass blocking. Not that any of our statements have anything to do with how good Peters is and why we were fools to let him go. We could have made a homemade super star a hero not a villain if we had done right by him.

[Kelly the Dog]

What about 2 separate running backs averaging 5 ypc? Oh I forgot that they are both Barry Sanders.

 

The Bilsl have sucked for a decade. But some of you are the biggest freaking haters on the planets and can't even give them any credit at all. But crying about it on an internet board is doing wonders!!!

The OL played well above its expectations, but those expectations were so low. They did NOT give Ryan Fitzpatrick even adequate time to throw by any NFL standards. Watch any other team in the league any game. Plus, the reason we were able to run well, in addition to the line being DECENT, was because we were always throwing and always in pass formation and that is the single best way to get holes in the run game.

 

Anyone complaining that Gailey abandons the run game too much is really missing the point that if we ran all the time, we couldn't run any of the time. Spiller looked great to me but if you doubled his carries you would cut his YPC by a third.

 

The OL at the beginning of the year was good because they didn't make mistakes, they didn't miss assignments, they picked up blitzes, they didn't allow jailbreaks and they didn't take penalties. Hence, Fitz was able to do what he does well, make pre-snap decisions and make quick decisions and read defenses quick and get the ball out quick less than 15 yards down the field. And Fred Jackson was tremendous.

 

But they did not give the QB actual time. And as soon as the injuries hit, they started making mistakes and getting penalties and getting bullrushes and not picking up blitzes and the entire offense collapsed.

[Coach Tuesday]

From a statistical vantage point, C. Bisquit is right.

 

From a schematic viewpoint I believe Peters would have given Gailey some flexibility in his design which is to clearly minimize pass-pro mistakes. I also think Peters would have thrived in a spread as it pertains to run blocking as did everybody else on the OLine this year. Our OLine was very successful working against a spread out defense. And Peters would have dominated, no doubt.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

From any vantage point, no one can say with a straight face that having the best LT in the NFL would have made a "minimal difference" to the Bills' offensive line.

[PDaDdy]

Ill agree he deserved more money for his play, but not just for a position switch. If thats the case, are you advocating that he deserves to give some back since he isnt on vicks blindside? that is a demotion in your book afterall. his play grew faster than his contract and he frankly wasnt THAT patient with it. Did he deserve more? sure. did he handle it well? nope. Neither side did really. instead of being a proactive discussion it devolved into a game of chicken and no one wins at that point.

 

and sure a team can tear up the contract any time you want but that signing bonus still feels mighty good in a players pocket if they are cut for not living up to the play expected.

 

and no, not every job can you walk to the competition any time you want. in fact quite a few million dollar jobs come with non-compete clauses when you leave.

 

Non compete clauses only come into effect when you are taking a job that may "compete" with the company that hired you. It doesn't mean you can't take ANY job. Just very specific ones with very specific competitors. It's apples and pork chops anyway. Non compete is really not a good example or analogous situation.

[QB Bills]

Again, I'm all for players getting paid. But I'm not for teams getting bullied by players and agents. The Bengals got pushed around by Palmer, told him to f off, and made the playoffs. So I don't get crying about a LT on a 8-8 football team that we beat.

This is the only thing you've said in this thread that makes sense. You're right, you don't get it. That's because you don't know anything about football.

 

At the end of the day, whether you're a fan who understands the sport or not, the thing we all have in common is that we want the Bills to win. The Peters trade was not an example of a team that shares that philosophy. End of story.

[NoSaint]

The OL played well above its expectations, but those expectations were so low. They did NOT give Ryan Fitzpatrick even adequate time to throw by any NFL standards. Watch any other team in the league any game. Plus, the reason we were able to run well, in addition to the line being DECENT, was because we were always throwing and always in pass formation and that is the single best way to get holes in the run game.

 

Anyone complaining that Gailey abandons the run game too much is really missing the point that if we ran all the time, we couldn't run any of the time. Spiller looked great to me but if you doubled his carries you would cut his YPC by a third.

 

The OL at the beginning of the year was good because they didn't make mistakes, they didn't miss assignments, they picked up blitzes, they didn't allow jailbreaks and they didn't take penalties. Hence, Fitz was able to do what he does well, make pre-snap decisions and make quick decisions and read defenses quick and get the ball out quick less than 15 yards down the field. And Fred Jackson was tremendous.

 

But they did not give the QB actual time. And as soon as the injuries hit, they started making mistakes and getting penalties and getting bullrushes and not picking up blitzes and the entire offense collapsed.

 

 

agreed. i think people kill chan on his scheme, not realizing his scheme got a lot out of middle of the road or lower talent. we are bringing the level up but by the end of the year this team was decimated.

 

people call him stubborn, but what do you really do with the hand he was dealt -

 

run more? the holes will surely get smaller if you up the carries and the d isnt keyed in on the pass

stretch the field? between fitz, the line, and our WR - no one is up to that task

 

you have a ball control, passing offense that stretches the field horizontally and hope for the best. its very limited but it proved moderately effective.

 

a few games would have been nice to mix in a couple more second half runs, but generally i was happy with the plan. just frustrated that we didnt have better options.

[GOBILLS78]

Hi, yeah, I just wanted to pop back in and say the best thing about this thread is posters questioning other posters' football cred. At the end of the day, we're all wearing pocket protectors and tape-secured eyeglasses.