offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If the Bills lose Johnson then I can promise you that we will either land a top WR free agent or we will draft a WR in the first round. Gailey, being the offensive minded guy that he is would never handcuff himself with no weapons on the offensive side of the ball. I'm guessing that we sign Johnson and pick up a good, but not great #2 WR in free agency. If Johnson wants superstar money and walks then my guess is that they will get Jeffries or Blackmon in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) That's a poor assumption. The facts are he wants 7.5 Mil a season. Which would be right around #15-20 WR money. And yes he likes to celebrate but he also works hard in practice and in the film room. So, if he knocks off the penalized celebrations and just comes up with a nice quick signature celebration that won't get penalized; like the Gronk Power Spike, Cam "Superman", Rodgers "Championship Belt" etc etc etc; Voila no more "selfishness." He will def get a contract worth more than that by someone. If he would accept that from Buffalo, they should be all over it. Edited January 5, 2012 by kobe808lak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I imagine it's possible that Stevie thinks he should get 7.5MM per, and that the Bills are not necessarily going to have a problem with that number, but that guaranteed money is very much an issue at work here. Both parties could believe he deserves an average of $7.5MM per, with Stevie thinking 5/$40MM including a $25MM signing bonus, while the Bills think 6/$42MM with $10MM up front is about right. These figures are pulled from thin air, mind you, but upfront money has got to be at issue here. That's money that goes immediately to the player, and while it works to the advantage of the team in terms of NFL accounting (spreading over the length of the contract to reduce salary cap hit), a big bonus hits the team hard and they've already doled one out to Fitz if I'm not mistaken. It's one thing that makes me nervous, no doubt, should this reach the stage where another team can make an offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The draft is deep in WR's again, just like it was the year we signed Johnson, and just like last year. 7.5m is adequate. My favorite WR in each round as of now: RD1-Blackmon RD2-Alshon Jeffery RD3-Jeff Fuller (3B:AJ Jenkins) RD4-Ryan Broyles (4B: Cobi Hamilton) RD5-Jarius Wright RD6-Marvin Jones RD7-DeVier Posey And don't forget Bowe-Meachem in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Do we still believe Chris Brown is given ANY legitimate information by the Bills front office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The draft is deep in WR's again, just like it was the year we signed Johnson, and just like last year. 7.5m is adequate. My favorite WR in each round as of now: RD1-Blackmon RD2-Alshon Jeffery RD3-Jeff Fuller (3B:AJ Jenkins) RD4-Ryan Broyles (4B: Cobi Hamilton) RD5-Jarius Wright RD6-Marvin Jones RD7-DeVier Posey And don't forget Bowe-Meachem in FA. Is Jeffery really gettable in R2? Everything I've read has indicated otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Wasn't the point of sitting him to teach him a lesson on not to hurt the team??? What would the point of that be if the didn't intend on keeping him? To make sure he doesnt hurt his next team? makes no sense. It was a meaningless game. I think it was a bad situation Chan tried to put an end to this BS by saying the next person who gets a stupid penalty that hurts the team they're out...So stevie does something that last year he doesn't get penalized for and now he gets penalized for it...Chan tried to keep his word. I feel Chan should have swallowed his pride and put him back in after the half before the game got out of hand. Maybe Chan knew it was a meaningless game maybe he wanted to be able to evaluate the other receivers... who knows but we need Stevie he young hes talented we cant keep letting good players out the door because of old school pride. This is a different kind of immaturity than Jason Peters, where the guy wanted a huge contract before he earned his stripes then sat out and returned out of shaped whining and crying until he gets what he wants...This is a guy that brings it every week and gets a little carried away after he scores a touchdown. Isn't it a good thing to have a player that is so confident that hes going to score that he writes something on his shirt before the game? Is it not worth 7.5 mill a year to have a guy that can put up good numbers against Revis who we play twice a year? Not resigning him makes no sense. We have let good players go before and none of them would mind boggle me more than letting this guy go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Brown is usually pretty much in touch with the Bills....It's a simple as Fitz said on WGR Chan told everyone about the next guy to draw a celebration penalty will be sitting. Johnson did - take a seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 feel like a broken record for saying this in every stevie thread, but ill say it again: we have to spend to the cap next year. i strongly suspect johnson will be back. don't see how NOT franchising him has anything to do with it. a franchise tag (which isn't used as much as people tend to think) is basically an admission that a player WON'T be back, and that you're looking to get picks for him. players that get franchised are usually very unhappy, and walk the following year. its called, a "negotiation." im sure stevie has told the bills, he's going to test the market, as he should he will see what his value is, and the bills will more than likely resign him for that asking price. he will likely find that no team is willing to spend 10 mil a year on him, and the bills will match anything lower. if some team goes above and beyond that, because they are DESPERATE for a wideout... (and no teams in our conference really come to mind... maybe baltimore??....) and spend above 10 million a year... well, we can't tie up THAT much of our cap in 1 position, and it wouldn't be prudent too. the money would be better spent on our oline and secondary, and yes, cj spiller. all in all, we're in a great position, and again WE HAVE TO SPEND TO THE CAP. stop with the ralph is cheap, it doesnt matter anymore. if stevie walks, the money still has to be spent. say that to yourself every night before bed: "if stevie walks, the money still has to be spent." "if stevie walks, the money still has to be spent." "if stevie walks, the money still has to be spent." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Is Jeffery really gettable in R2? Everything I've read has indicated otherwise. http://www.drafttek.com/2012-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-WRs.asp This is our ranking of WR's right now. I think Hill will drop, Criner will drop a little further. Jones, Jenkins, and maybe Fuller could pass them. Jeffery is likely to end up 6th to 8th after Senior Bowl and combine. Seven teams have WR listed as a P1 or P2 need, so Jeffery is right on the cusp at our RD2 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'd love to know what exactly you consider Chan's GT attitude? You mean like telling the team whoever gets a celebration flag gets benched, then following through? I guess a REAL NFL coach would just say "I was just kidding, I'm not benching you." It just hit me: The posters that hate the team the most all have names like "#1 Bills Fan" PTR Didn't Detroits coach Schwartz also say the same thing to his team, that they would be benched, if they took more dumb penalties? But the Stevie man crushers are right, only a circus of a franchise would try and discipline the fine, upstanding athletes they have on their team for something as small as costing them 15 yards for a celebration. Its not like Stevie was doing something selfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It's an easy assumption to make given his attitude on the field. (Before anyone attacks me, I like SJ, I just think his antics are a bit selfish at times, which means he's likely a selfish person in general) See, this is where I disagree. I think SJ likes to joke around and play jokes and he likes attention. It's not an uncommon trait among lively, energetic young athletes. The best athletes in my daughter's class are both the biggest cut-ups and jokers and I'm sure it's because they have lots of energy and want some attention. I think he just hasn't put it together yet to realize that playing jokes like dressing up as Chan Gailey for Halloween is funny, but jokes which result in penalties = hurt his team = selfish. I've heard people talk about "the kickoff will still result in a touchback anyway", so I don't think it's unique to Stevie to have started out not taking these penalties too seriously. The inconsistent penalty enforcement in the NFL hasn't helped (ie, if writing on his shirt wasn't penalized last year, it's not unreasonable of Stevie to feel it wouldn't draw a flag.) I think it's poor judgement to be pushing the limits of what might be penalized in his situation (prior penalties = more scrutiny), but I can't call it selfish or make the generalization to calling him a selfish person. I think Chan would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picnic Table F'er Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 you can't win with the JV defensive front 7 we have been riding the past 2-3 years The two worst defenses in the NFL in the Patriots and Packers would like to disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbyte Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Letting Big Pat go was a mistake, but there was no way the Bills were going to match the obscene offer by the 49er's for Winfield. He got QB money as I recall. The problem with Johnson is that some stupid team will pay what he's asking, so instead of us having solid no. 2 receiver, someone else will be cursing the day they paid him. It was Nate Clements not Winfield. Winfield went to the Vikings. Clements would of signed for less but the Bills kept dragging their feet. The Bills let Winfield walk because they had Clements. Like they let Greer walk because they had McGee. They did not even, offer Flecther or Pat Williams a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Not a chance that SJ sticks around. He can get a bigger paycheck playing for a better organization. There is zero reason for any player to play in Buffalo unless they are desperate and have no other options. The Bills have a history of not wanting to pay top money to players they develop out of walk-ons or late round draft picks. Players like Pat Williams who was a walk on free agent who developed into a top pro bowl DT. Jason Peters who was a walk on free agent TE who they developed into a pro bowl LT. It makes me wonder if the FO feels these players were nothing and "we" made them into something, they owe "us" to continue to play for what "we" think is fair. If this is the case I suspect not only will the Bills lose Stevie Johnson, they will also lose Bell, and somewhere down the road they will also lose Fred Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The Bills have a history of not wanting to pay top money to players they develop out of walk-ons or late round draft picks. Players like Pat Williams who was a walk on free agent who developed into a top pro bowl DT. Jason Peters who was a walk on free agent TE who they developed into a pro bowl LT. It makes me wonder if the FO feels these players were nothing and "we" made them into something, they owe "us" to continue to play for what "we" think is fair. If this is the case I suspect not only will the Bills lose Stevie Johnson, they will also lose Bell, and somewhere down the road they will also lose Fred Jackson Just like they let late rounder Kyle Williams walk, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why is everyone giving Gailey a pass on enacting such a dumb rule in the first place? What's next, anyone who gets a false start has to sit out a quarter? Ultimatums are stupid, because if someone violates it and you don't follow through, you completely undermine yourself, but if you do follow through, all you do is compound a problem with another problem. And especially when the condition for the benching (celebration penalty) is one of the most arbitrary and capriciously officiated rules in sports. If you're going to demand punishment for such a thing, at least keep the threat vague enough so that you can adjust the punishment to the situation. Benching Stevie for a series or two would've sent a plenty strong enough message. To sum up: I like that Gailey followed his own rule that he arbitrarily made. I don't like that he arbitrarily made a terrible rule that was likely to hurt the team, and wasn't smart enough to realize this in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why is everyone giving Gailey a pass on enacting such a dumb rule in the first place? What's next, anyone who gets a false start has to sit out a quarter? Ultimatums are stupid, because if someone violates it and you don't follow through, you completely undermine yourself, but if you do follow through, all you do is compound a problem with another problem. And especially when the condition for the benching (celebration penalty) is one of the most arbitrary and capriciously officiated rules in sports. If you're going to demand punishment for such a thing, at least keep the threat vague enough so that you can adjust the punishment to the situation. Benching Stevie for a series or two would've sent a plenty strong enough message. To sum up: I like that Gailey followed his own rule that he arbitrarily made. I don't like that he arbitrarily made a terrible rule that was likely to hurt the team, and wasn't smart enough to realize this in advance. Well said, my man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Just like they let late rounder Kyle Williams walk, right? He was a 5th, not a 7th like Stevie is, and the book isn't finished on Williams just yet now is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 He was a 5th, not a 7th like Stevie is, and the book isn't finished on Williams just yet now is it. So the cutoff on this arbitrary insight into how the bills never keep all the diamonds in the rough that they uncover is the 7th round, then? Got the memo. The book isn't, as you say, closed on KW but I'm sure they are not cutting one of their best defensive players, so explain what you're getting at, please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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