There's competitive greatness....

[K-9]

I was PISSED when she got ran over by the lincoln in Escape from NY. Barbeau's intangibles were pretty spectacular. She was deinitely one the finest broads of the seveties/early eighties. I mean they hung so perfectly. (her intangibles) Not too low, not too high. Gives me the shivers just thinking about them again. Thanks, man.

 

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2008/3/Adrienne-Barbeau-Swamp-Thing-476777

 

I wonder what swamp thing is contemplating after seeing Adrienne Barbeau bathing in the swamp. I'm thinking, "They're real. And they're spectacular!"

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NewEra]

I'm with ya 34. Everyone knows this by now. We've been accustomed to having the worst qb in the league for the better part of a decade. Now, because we don't have the worst qb, many fans are happy with an average qb. You can talk about stats all you want. The eyeball test is what matters. Talk about injuries all you want. I see what i see. Others may see differently, but we have ourselves an average qb. An average qb amounts to the same with 95% of the time. Disappointment when the seasons over. I want a ring. Something fitz will never give any of us.

[#34fan]

I believe that we are one player away from being a top 5 offense. We need a clutch receiver that can win a game for us. We need a Reggie Wayne/Calvin Johnson kind of wr that can dominate a defense. Stevie Johnson is a fine receiver but he is not clutch. Nelson is a key piece for the future. Chandler however, is expendable.

Chandler is expendable? -Yikes! He's one of the only guys I see fighting to bring down balls in traffic. I'd try to keep that guy if I could. Chandler has a competitive edge that's pretty eveident in his play. Still, if we keep Fitz, we'll definitely need to add ANOTHER TE. I was thinking of that kid Nick Provo from the 'Cuse.

Edited December 8, 2011 by #34fan

[Gray Beard]

Chandler is expendable? -Yikes! He's one of the only guys I see fighting to bring down balls in traffic. I'd try to keep that guy if I could. Chandler has a competitive edge that's pretty eveident in his play. Still, if we keep Fitz, we'll definitely need to add ANOTHER TE. I was thinking of that kid Nick Provo from the 'Cuse.

Right now there are at least three TEs on the team. Smith, Caussin and Chandler. All three caught passes in the Titans game. I don't know if any of them "pass the eyeball test" for being "elite" or having "competitive greatness." However, I would be surprised if TE was considered a need in the near term. Too many other holes to plug. On the other hand, a big, aggressive, fast, mean WR would be a huge upgrade.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

That's not how I remember it.

 

Our secondary and LB's generated alot of turnovers early in the season.

Also, Freddy was a rushing MACHINE.

I think the combination of those two made Fitz look better than he actually is.

If fitz was a better leader, he could have built a tradition of high expectations out of those early successes.

To be fair, you could say the same thing about Gailey too.

 

He still had to complete passes in high pressure situations to make those comebacks work. I don't know what kind of "tradition" he was going to build up when the team is crumbling around him due to injuries.

 

Anyway as I said, it seems pretty clear that QB isn't where the team is going to make changes.

[bananathumb]

I was PISSED when she got ran over by the lincoln in Escape from NY. Barbeau's intangibles were pretty spectacular. She was deinitely one the finest broads of the seveties/early eighties. I mean they hung so perfectly. (her intangibles) Not too low, not too high. Gives me the shivers just thinking about them again. Thanks, man.

 

 

Adrienne's "intangibles" are probably still greater than Ryan's will ever be.

[bobobonators]

yay! another Fitz "can't cut it thread"..since all of these threads deal with the same mind-numbing hyperbole, i'll just do the same and keep posting the response I made in another thread:

 

25 games started for the Bills:

 

856 attempts; 43td's; 60% completion percentage; 5,837yds; 83qb rating

 

 

 

last 25 games started for following QB's:

 

Eli Manning:

 

879 attempts; 49td's; 62% completion %; 6897yds; approx 90qb rating

 

Big Ben (*last 24 games):

 

797 attempts; 36td's; 62% completion ; 6,446yds; 95 qb rating

 

Matt Ryan:

 

760 attempts; 33td's; approx 61% completion; 5,464yds; approx 88qb rating

 

Mark Sanchez:

 

833 attempts; 30td's; approx 55% completion; 5,419yds; approx 77qb rating

 

Matt Schaub:

 

849 attempts; 38td's; approx 62% completion; 6,742yds; approx 94qb rating

 

Joe Flacco:

 

815 attempts; 34td's; approx 58% completion; 5,853 yds; ; approx 86 qb rating

 

Josh Freeman:

 

857 attempts; 35td's; approx 61% completion; 5,984 yds; approx 86 qb rating

 

Rivers:

 

867 attempts; 42td's; approx 64% completion; 7,128yds; approx 94qb rating

 

 

Do you guys want me to continue? because it's truly pointless to do so. Aside from the ELITE QB'S (BREES/RODGERS/MANNING)which is pointless to even compare, Fitzpatrick last 25 starts with the Buffalo Bills, stack up against ANY OF THE QB'S you fools wish we had/assume are better.

 

For fools, the grass is always greener. So PLEASE, do me and the rest of us a favor and analyze those numbers above; analyze them, digest them and for once and for all, STFU.

 

GO FITZ!

 

I'm with ya 34. Everyone knows this by now. We've been accustomed to having the worst qb in the league for the better part of a decade. Now, because we don't have the worst qb, many fans are happy with an average qb. You can talk about stats all you want. The eyeball test is what matters. Talk about injuries all you want. I see what i see. Others may see differently, but we have ourselves an average qb. An average qb amounts to the same with 95% of the time. Disappointment when the seasons over. I want a ring. Something fitz will never give any of us.

 

newera, i respect your opinion, but in all due respect, the "eye ball test"? come on, how subjective can you get? it's real easy to always covet other players b/c when they mess up it's not YOUR team, so it's a lot easier to simply forget about that and then just focus on the good. when one of our players misses the mark, you're much more likely to dwell on that and then simply disregard the good. it's really quite simple. AGain, considering everything around him, Fitz has been WELL above average for us since last year.

 

Continue adding talent..give us a premier #1 WR..give us a very good O-line..BUILD around fitz..he's already shown that he can win some tough games with limited talent...keep adding to the talent!

 

As for the defense..that's another story...

[Dr. K]

Coach John Fox used a phrase in a press conference last week that's really starting to grow on me. That phrase was "competitive greatness" I'm not sure if it was coined first by ex-UCLA coach John Wooden or someone else, but I really like it. Part of the definition of "competitive greatness" is being at your best when your best is needed. Tim Tebow has shown that while he may not be the best QB stat-wise, he'll be there when his team needs him most. His defense will persevere, and fight for him because they KNOW at some point, Timmy will come through. Can anyone say the same thing about Fitz-spastic? The only thing our defense can count on with Fitz is him going three-and-out, or throwing an INT at the WORST possible time. Still, there's a question as to why Fitzy is like this. -There shouldn't be. Tim Tebow played in what is arguably THE MOST competitive conference in college football. He played for the best, and most competitive coach in the game at the time. Tim Tebow prevailed at that level not once, but twice, playing in two National Title games with the Gators. Both of which, they won.

 

Clearly, school and conference pedigree can have a lot to do with manifesting competitive greatness. What about Alex Smith? A few years prior to Tebow's success, He also won a National Title, with the same ultra-competitive coach that Tebow had in Florida. Why does he suck now? Simply put, Alex Smith's college success was a product of Meyer's competitive greatness as a coach. Despite the fact Smith played in a woeful conference, Meyer provided Smith with insight, confidence, and consistency. Three things that Smith never had in his pro career. That is, until now. As a College QB Jim Harbaugh was the epitome of competitive greatness. Again, Harbaugh played in a very competitive division, for an Apex competitor in Bo Schembechler. Although Harbaugh's pro career was a mixed bag, he actually made it to an AFC Championship game in 1995-1996, but lost a close one to the Steelers. Harbaugh is a guy who knows the position, and gives Smith the benefit of every mistake he's ever made. Once again, Smith is imparted with greatness he doesn't posess himself.

 

To be fair, a few personnel moves on the defensive side of the ball, worked out for San Fran as well. Still, Smith has been managing games well, and hasn't been making mistakes to deflate his team. So what about Fitzpatrick? Let's see, he comes from a conference where math-letes and football players compete for tee-times at the local golf course. He honed his football skills under the great Tim Murphy (who?) Former linebacker of Springfield College, the "Birthplace of basketball" (long story) To make matters worse, the Bills have a Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator on his fourth HC job who calls plays from a thirty year old playbook! Not to mention a coaching staff that seems disinterested (at best) in winning games. Forget greatness. Our inability to compete at a fundamental level is a problem that can ONLY be addressed by major personnel changes. Oh, but so-and-so is hurt! and whats-his-face in banged up. Injuries-Schminjuries! If this team is ever going to be good, the excuse-making has got to stop now. IMO We need two things immediately: 1)A head coach (and staff) that can motivate, teach, and develop competitive talent. 2)A QB who can deliver in adverse situations. Right now we have neither.

 

I find this extremely unpersuasive. You might as well believe in voodoo. It's like the concept of "clutch hitting" in baseball, which sabremetric studies have shown does not exist.

 

It's just an excuse to B word, which is of course your perfect right. Rock on. After game five this season you would have looked like an ass saying this. After game eleven you think you are a genius.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Dr. K

[KOKBILLS]

I read everyone talking about an elite QB you put Brady, Rodgers or Brees behind this line and tell me will they look Elite or pedestrian?

 

Seriously? You wanna go there?

[CBD]

I read everyone talking about an elite QB you put Brady, Rodgers or Brees behind this line and tell me will they look Elite or pedestrian?

Elite.

[SactoBillFan]

I find this extremely unpersuasive. You might as well believe in voodoo. It's like the concept of "clutch hitting" in baseball, which sabremetric studies have shown does not exist.

 

It's just an excuse to B word, which is of course your perfect right. Rock on. After game five this season you would have looked like an ass saying this. After game eleven you think you are a genius.

Well said...

[#34fan]

yay! another Fitz "can't cut it thread"..since all of these threads deal with the same mind-numbing hyperbole, i'll just do the same and keep posting the response I made in another thread:

 

25 games started for the Bills:

 

856 attempts; 43td's; 60% completion percentage; 5,837yds; 83qb rating

 

 

 

last 25 games started for following QB's:

 

Eli Manning:

 

879 attempts; 49td's; 62% completion %; 6897yds; approx 90qb rating

 

Big Ben (*last 24 games):

 

797 attempts; 36td's; 62% completion ; 6,446yds; 95 qb rating

 

Matt Ryan:

 

760 attempts; 33td's; approx 61% completion; 5,464yds; approx 88qb rating

 

Mark Sanchez:

 

833 attempts; 30td's; approx 55% completion; 5,419yds; approx 77qb rating

 

Matt Schaub:

 

849 attempts; 38td's; approx 62% completion; 6,742yds; approx 94qb rating

 

Joe Flacco:

 

815 attempts; 34td's; approx 58% completion; 5,853 yds; ; approx 86 qb rating

 

Josh Freeman:

 

857 attempts; 35td's; approx 61% completion; 5,984 yds; approx 86 qb rating

 

Rivers:

 

867 attempts; 42td's; approx 64% completion; 7,128yds; approx 94qb rating

 

 

Do you guys want me to continue? because it's truly pointless to do so. Aside from the ELITE QB'S (BREES/RODGERS/MANNING)which is pointless to even compare, Fitzpatrick last 25 starts with the Buffalo Bills, stack up against ANY OF THE QB'S you fools wish we had/assume are better.

 

For fools, the grass is always greener. So PLEASE, do me and the rest of us a favor and analyze those numbers above; analyze them, digest them and for once and for all, STFU.

 

GO FITZ!

 

 

 

newera, i respect your opinion, but in all due respect, the "eye ball test"? come on, how subjective can you get? it's real easy to always covet other players b/c when they mess up it's not YOUR team, so it's a lot easier to simply forget about that and then just focus on the good. when one of our players misses the mark, you're much more likely to dwell on that and then simply disregard the good. it's really quite simple. AGain, considering everything around him, Fitz has been WELL above average for us since last year.

 

Continue adding talent..give us a premier #1 WR..give us a very good O-line..BUILD around fitz..he's already shown that he can win some tough games with limited talent...keep adding to the talent!

 

As for the defense..that's another story...

 

YAY! Another rabid Fitzophile!

 

Never mind the fact that this thread isn't about completion percentages, or QB ratings. It's about delivering the goods when it matters most. I'm content to let you go right on tracking the stats of this prolific under-achiever until he's waived by his very LAST team. Keep right on making those excuses until the fifteenth or sixteenth year of our playoff drought. -I'll NEVER tell you to STFU. Why? Because posts like yours exemplify the worst in blind, ignorant, homerism. They serve as an example to this board of the exact kind of thinking that keeps us where we are as a football franchise. You sir, represent all that's dull, short-sighted, and backward in every failing football franchise in the NFL. You are the cart in front of the horse. You are the little picture. But hey, go ahead and stand by your man. Just to be clear, the man we're talking about was a seventh round pick, that was eventually traded for another seventh round pick, to a team that ended up not wanting him after two years, and who subsequently landed on our roster as a BACK-UP! Believe me, if Trent were just a little less TERRIBLE, he'd still be one. "Continue Adding talent"? -Why not? Just make sure one of those additions is an NFL calibre QB. Ideally someone who can put up numbers on something besides paper.

[K-9]

YAY! Another rabid Fitzophile!

 

Never mind the fact that this thread isn't about completion percentages, or QB ratings. It's about delivering the goods when it matters most....

 

When exactly, does it matter most in a game? And by extension, are there times in games when it doesn't matter most?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[bobobonators]

YAY! Another rabid Fitzophile!

 

Never mind the fact that this thread isn't about completion percentages, or QB ratings. It's about delivering the goods when it matters most. I'm content to let you go right on tracking the stats of this prolific under-achiever until he's waived by his very LAST team. Keep right on making those excuses until the fifteenth or sixteenth year of our playoff drought. -I'll NEVER tell you to STFU. Why? Because posts like yours exemplify the worst in blind, ignorant, homerism. They serve as an example to this board of the exact kind of thinking that keeps us where we are as a football franchise. You sir, represent all that's dull, short-sighted, and backward in every failing football franchise in the NFL. You are the cart in front of the horse. You are the little picture. But hey, go ahead and stand by your man. Just to be clear, the man we're talking about was a seventh round pick, that was eventually traded for another seventh round pick, to a team that ended up not wanting him after two years, and who subsequently landed on our roster as a BACK-UP! Believe me, if Trent were just a little less TERRIBLE, he'd still be one. "Continue Adding talent"? -Why not? Just make sure one of those additions is an NFL calibre QB. Ideally someone who can put up numbers on something besides paper.

 

OK, so is it about TD then? You know..that minor detail that is required in order to actually WIN a football game? 25 games, 43 td's..more TD's than Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Big Ben, Schaub, Sanchez, Flacco, Freeman...all of the QB's minus Rivers and Schaub were in the playoffs last year.

 

Here's a clue: There are other parts to a team aside from the QB; try addressing it from that angle for a while.

 

[bobobonators]

When exactly, does it matter most in a game? And by extension, are there times in games when it doesn't matter most?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Good question. The new QBR rating attempts to address this. Fitzpatrick currently ranks 12th in the league with a QBR rating of 58.7. He's ahead of notable QB's like Philip Rivers, Vick, Flacco, Newton, Stafford, Freeman, Dalton, Smith, Sanchez. I say "notable" b/c of course, on these message boards, all of those above mentioned QB's are "worlds" better than Fitz.

 

So while 12th in the league isn't "outstanding," it's certainly above average. Add that QBR ranking to the stats I listed above, and you have yourself GOOD production from the QB position.

 

Solution: Fix the Defense, Add to the offense; add overall depth. Result: playoffs.

[K-9]

Good question. The new QBR rating attempts to address this. Fitzpatrick currently ranks 12th in the league with a QBR rating of 58.7. He's ahead of notable QB's like Philip Rivers, Vick, Flacco, Newton, Stafford, Freeman, Dalton, Smith, Sanchez. I say "notable" b/c of course, on these message boards, all of those above mentioned QB's are "worlds" better than Fitz.

 

So while 12th in the league isn't "outstanding," it's certainly above average. Add that QBR ranking to the stats I listed above, and you have yourself GOOD production from the QB position.

 

Solution: Fix the Defense, Add to the offense; add overall depth. Result: playoffs.

 

I appreciate the information but I was asking the question rhetorically. I know what his answer will be. It's the proverbial "crunch time" answer. It's a very myopic view of the game and what it takes to win. Winning QBs in the history of the game won most of those games long before it ever even got to "crunch time." Their "competitive greatness" was usually on display right from the opening kickoff. People with a good understanding of competition in athletic contests fully understand that.

 

There's just more to it than the romanticized "fourth quarter comeback" but it creates legends and makes for good stories. And I think Tebow is a great story. It's just that sooner or later he's going to have to show his "competitive greatness" earlier in games. When it matters just as much.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited December 9, 2011 by K-9

[janicks]

He led a huge comeback against the Patriots with some "competitive greatness", as well as one against the Raiders.

 

What happened was the injuries destroyed the starting lineup, and the team (which was already lacking defensively) didn't have the depth to continue to compete.

 

6 total game winning drives in his career, 5 with the Bills (should be 6, if SJ catches the ball against NYJ).

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=FitzRy00

[Hapless Bills Fan]

And then there is paragraphs...

 

And then there are TBD denizens with repetitive paragraphs touting their well-worn personal agenda

 

When exactly, does it matter most in a game? And by extension, are there times in games when it doesn't matter most?

 

I'd rather like to understand the answer to that myself.

 

6 total game winning drives in his career, 5 with the Bills (should be 6, if SJ catches the ball against NYJ).

 

http://www.pro-footb...player=FitzRy00

 

That would be the same number of "game winning drives" as Aaron Rodgers.

 

Tom Brady on the other hand has 33 "game winning drives" and Drew Brees has 18

 

What does that tell us?

[K-9]

 

... I'd rather like to understand the answer to that myself. ...

 

Well, here's the answer then.

 

There is never a time in a game when it doesn't matter most, especially in the beginning of games when the outcome is more in question than it is later in games.

 

Like I said, winning QBs win the vast majority of their games before the fourth quarter. But "crunch time" is romanticized to create legends. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Swap our defense for Denver's defense and I wonder how the Tebow-mania thing would work out.

 

You do? (wonder that is)

 

I don't

 

Te bo who?

 

Well, here's the answer then.

 

There is never a time in a game when it doesn't matter most, especially in the beginning of games when the outcome is more in question than it is later in games.

 

Like I said, winning QBs win the vast majority of their games before the fourth quarter. But "crunch time" is romanticized to create legends. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Shhhhhh! I could have written something very close to this answer myself. I'm waiting hopefully to hear the explanation of #34Fan and those of similar belief system.