HeHateMe Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 If the Colts can draft Luck with one of the best QBs in the history of the NFL already on their roster, then I'm sure we can draft a QB with Fitz on our roster. People are so quick to say the Colts will draft Luck, but Manning probably has about 5 more years of great football in him. Some may say he's now damaged goods, but there is nothing out there to suggest this. So, if the Colts, who outside of the QB position have twice as many holes as we have, can draft Luck and ignore the rest of their horrible roster, then so can we. On the Colts, Luck is likely to sit for another 3-5 years anyway. I don't have a crystal ball, but I think this offseason's draft position will be the best the Bills will have in the near future. Should we get caught with our pants down in 3-5 years when we need Fitz's replacement? I think most people know now that while Fitz is not this team's problem, he's not likely going to be the solution either. He cannot rely on him to take control of a game in its final minutes to win us a game. We need that type of leader. Agree 100%.. Fitz is a stop gap QB. The QB of the future is still not on the roster. I think it has to be addressed in this upcoming Draft. There is some real potential with the guys coming out. Unless you have a dynamic top 2-3 NFL defense, Fitz will never win you a playoff game - let alone a Superbowl. Guy cannot throw deep to save his life. It is either horribly underthrown or 5 yards past the WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Zach Brown first Round....Devier Posey 2nd rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Anyone have any opinions on Quinton Coples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofton80 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Bravo !!!! This is the best draft related post I have ever read on this site. I can only hope your interpretation is accurate. I think Barkley and Griffin are both better than Gabbert, McCoy, Jimmy Clausen and a few others we passed on the last few years. Both buy pocket time with their feet and keep their eyes downfield and deliver great throws. Both have to be strongly considered if available whem Buffalo picks despite glaring needs elsewhere. Thereafter, think front 7 and big. IMO, the goal of this organization should be to have the most talented roster in the NFL in 3 years. I bring this up because the process will run contrary to what many of you want. It means drafting to build an organization that can compete for 10-12 years, not drafting to fill a few holes and hopefully create short term success. I haven't been thrilled with lack of urgency of Buddy Nix but I have seen enough good things that he has done that indicates that he might see the big picture. Drafting and roster building is a process. Specifically, the Bills have treated the draft like an event......a turning point.....where they have burned up high picks on flashy but limited impact prospects Willis, Roscoe, Lil' Donte, Leodis, Marshawn and Spiller. Inarguably, sustained success starts at QB. Fitzpatrick is a decent QB, but not an elite one. He lacks the arm strength to command his deep throws and subsequently teams have been squatting on those short throws for two months now. He has been unable to stretch those defenses and keep them honest and the tight coverage has exposed his average receiving corps. Can he chuck the ball with velocity? Yes. But he has to hurl himself into it, and when he does that he loses control of his mechanics and subsequently is very wild on throws of 20 yards or more. Far too wild to keep a defense honest. I like him and I am comfortable with him short term, but that limitation will be hard to build long term success around. If Barkley or RG3 are there, it's time to pull that trigger on a QB with the teams first selection for the first time in 51 years. No more RB's or CB's or other reaching for small players who promise to be able to step right in and play......but who will not be worth signing to a big second contract. If the stud QB prospect is not there, take a big player at a key position who will likely be with the team for 8-10 years. That could be Matt Kalil from USC. He is not going to excite fans, but he has the potential to be a top performing LT for a long, long time. If they go defense, go big. Look at the success of the Ravens defense. They have drafted players like Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs and Haloti Ngata in round 1 and they have been the backbone of that defense. They've successfully spent high picks on DB's like Chris McAlister and Ed Reed, but the truth is the Ravens D is always good whether they have those DB's or not. It's great when the DB's are playing well, but that's what the secondary is....icing on the cake. Big fast guys are in much lesser supply than small fast ones, and if you just build your roster around that concept you won't end up with a shell of a team like the Bills have had for the past dozen years. In subsequent rounds, draft players for value while keeping in mind that notion about big/fast versus small/fast. That doesn't mean reaching up a round or two to draft Torrel Troup or Alex Carrington because you need a couple lineman but keep in mind what has happened to a team like the Eagles. They used to value their line play and big players but were criticized for their DB's and WR's. The past few offseasons they have gotten stud CB's Asomugha, Asante Samuel and drafted tiny wideouts Jackson and Macklin early and the team is in a downward spiral in great part because of their abandoning the roster building approach that kept them in sustained contention. But first and foremost remember that the draft is a process. Keep working to assemble the most talented players at key positions for three years, fill some needs in free agency and I think you have a team that can compete then and is poised to compete for a long time if the team sticks to the plan. That doesn't mean sacrificing next year, use free agency to patch some holes where you can. But don't lose track of the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 It doesn't seem like it now, but the Bills will have to trade up to 3 or 4 to get him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 It doesn't seem like it now, but the Bills will have to trade up to 3 or 4 to get him... Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Wow. Aspiring sprinter, accurate passer, strong arm, leader, smart? Is this for real? I just can't even imagine what is would be like to see a player with that much potential in a Bills Jersey. Bring it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 If Barkley or RG3 are there, it's time to pull that trigger on a QB with the teams first selection for the first time in 51 years. No more RB's or CB's or other reaching for small players who promise to be able to step right in and play......but who will not be worth signing to a big second contract. Barkley finished the year playing extremely well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Fitz is our guy. RG3 = Andre Ware. Forget it. Edited December 8, 2011 by bisonbrigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNeedaQBin2012 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Fitz is our guy. RG3 = Andre Ware. Forget it. Dude...where do you perform your comedy shows, because you sound hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 We're not getting any of these QB's. Luck, Griffin, Jones, Barkley...they're all going top 10. Teams now realize that you must have a solid QB to do anything. The Bills would have to finish 5-11 to even be in the discussion for one of those 4 guys. There is a damn good chance this happens. But I was thinking how great it would be if all 4 of those guys were off the board when we pick because then there would be some really good OLB, DE, OL, WR, CB's available for us to pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Where we'll be picking, I think Courtney Upshaw would be a HUGE (and much needed) addition to this team if he's available. I really like RG3, but I don't even think he'll come out this year...but if he does, I don't think he'll drop to the teens, where we'll be picking. If he comes out, RG3 will light it up in the combine and he'll go pretty high (top 5)..especially on the heels of Cam's success this year. Edited December 8, 2011 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yeah, I agree with Dick Drawn on several counts. Unlike what some people think (and I don't understand it because Nix was quite clear about this), the Bills will draft a "franchise-type" QB if one is available when they pick. They said this last year quite openly and talked about "a guy who can start for you for ten years and win a lot of games." And yet there are some who believe that just because Fitz (who I continue to love and support) signed that club-friendly extension with tons of escapability built in, that the Bills will ignore the quarterback position. Wrong. The contract Fitz recently signed is the going rate for an average starting QB. It doesn't commit the Bills to him for any more than this season. And we all know Fitz is a good soldier and will support a prize rookie QB. Like Dick said, if not QB, then a foundational player. He mentions Kahlil which would be the offensive equivalent to a Marcel Dareus pick. But Dick also mentioned Suggs and to me, a foundational player includes a 250 pound pass rusher. If we don't go quarterback in the first round for some compelling reason, then it has to be pass rusher or a guy like Kahlil (both Bell and Pears are free agents). Yes, we need a playmaking receiver but that's for a later round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yeah, I agree with Dick Drawn on several counts. Unlike what some people think (and I don't understand it because Nix was quite clear about this), the Bills will draft a "franchise-type" QB if one is available when they pick. They said this last year quite openly and talked about "a guy who can start for you for ten years and win a lot of games." And yet there are some who believe that just because Fitz (who I continue to love and support) signed that club-friendly extension with tons of escapability built in, that the Bills will ignore the quarterback position. Wrong. The contract Fitz recently signed is the going rate for an average starting QB. It doesn't commit the Bills to him for any more than this season. And we all know Fitz is a good soldier and will support a prize rookie QB. Like Dick said, if not QB, then a foundational player. He mentions Kahlil which would be the offensive equivalent to a Marcel Dareus pick. But Dick also mentioned Suggs and to me, a foundational player includes a 250 pound pass rusher. If we don't go quarterback in the first round for some compelling reason, then it has to be pass rusher or a guy like Kahlil (both Bell and Pears are free agents). Yes, we need a playmaking receiver but that's for a later round. You may be on to something with that Fitz not having his name written in Sharpie on the depth chart seeing as the Bills were caught sniffing around the Packers practice squad again for another QB. On the other hand, Thigpen is a dumpster fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 You may be on to something with that Fitz not having his name written in Sharpie on the depth chart seeing as the Bills were caught sniffing around the Packers practice squad again for another QB. On the other hand, Thigpen is a dumpster fire. I held out hope for Thiggy because he had overcome some odds to even make the NFL and then Gailey had been able to extract some production from him with that Pistol Offense in KC. But he looked terrible in preseason and just as bad in mop up duty. Not the answer at backup. However if Fitz is eventually bumped down the depth chart for the anointed one, that would be just fine. BTW, are you saying that the Bills had interest in another Packers QB after Brohm? When did this happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 RG3 is not only a great athlete, he's also a smart kid. Don't underestimate this guy. He graduated early from Baylor and is enrolled in graduate school. I have watched him play a lot, and he is the real deal. He is mobile, and can make do with a suspect O-line. I would take this guy with our first round pick and hope there's a decent pass rusher to be drafted in the second round. The Bills are headed for 5-11, so they may be flirting with a top 5 pick. Here is a feature on Griffin. Meet RG3 #1, I'm totally sold on RG3. Count me in. Second, I love the bizarro world that is college football. In real life, RG3 is a grad student. In college football, he's a junior. I held out hope for Thiggy because he had overcome some odds to even make the NFL and then Gailey had been able to extract some production from him with that Pistol Offense in KC. But he looked terrible in preseason and just as bad in mop up duty. Not the answer at backup. However if Fitz is eventually bumped down the depth chart for the anointed one, that would be just fine. BTW, are you saying that the Bills had interest in another Packers QB after Brohm? When did this happen? http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20111207/PKR01/111207162 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/139573-graham-harrell/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) the problem is the guy will be long gone by the time the bills pick, 10 teams have a worse record atm and the Bills are tied with 4 other teams at 5-7. 14th -15th ? Mock drafts already have this guy going in the 6-7 range to the Redskins or Dolphins Correction, if the season ended today.... 13th pick... Courtney Upshaw --- Zach Brown http://wgr550.com/Bi...4669?pid=186703 I'd rather see them keep losing and tab a top O tackle, that's just me tho Edited December 8, 2011 by Fear the Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Inarguably, sustained success starts at QB. Fitzpatrick is a decent QB, but not an elite one. He lacks the arm strength to command his deep throws and subsequently teams have been squatting on those short throws for two months now. He has been unable to stretch those defenses and keep them honest and the tight coverage has exposed his average receiving corps. Can he chuck the ball with velocity? Yes. But he has to hurl himself into it, and when he does that he loses control of his mechanics and subsequently is very wild on throws of 20 yards or more. Far too wild to keep a defense honest. I like him and I am comfortable with him short term, but that limitation will be hard to build long term success around. Teams have been squatting on those short throws because that's all Chan Gailey has in his game plan. He setup a makeshift O line for the specific purpose to primarily utilize the short quick passes that Fitz excels at, with the understanding that he didn't need a great O line if the QB can get the ball out in 3 seconds or under and before any pass rush can get to his QB. The problem is like DD pointed out is that teams are playing up on the line and bumping the WR's out of their routes to disrupt the timing and this causes Fitz to hold the ball longer then he should. Which also causes Fitz to start hurrying his passes and can't get into a rhythm. What also doesn't help is that the O line was patchwork to begin with, partially made up from a few guys off the waiver wire. Not to mention the fact that the best player on that line and starting center is on IR, the starting LT has been out for months and a rookie 4th is now the starting LT. Starting WR's on IR, the starting RB on IR This current O line wasn't build with the intention of calling 5-7 deep drop passes, simply because the O linemen lack the talent to protect for a 5-7 step drop on a consistent basis. If you look at the 49ers and their stout running game, along with a top defense... they have shown you don't need an elite QB to win and make the playoffs. Same thing with Denver, Tebow is about as far away from Brees-Manning-Brady- Big Ben as you can get, yet he is winning! This regime blew it by not building that O line the first year, I highly doubt the Bills will ever make the playoffs with Nix & Gailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Our problem is defense. The best available defensive player at pick 5,6 or 7 will be Tyran Mathieu, corner out of LSU. I can't imagine he won't declare for the draft this year. I have for years advocated getting the best offensive or defensive lineman early in the draft, but his guy has been described as a mating of Darrel Revis and Devin Hester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 There is a damn good chance this happens. But I was thinking how great it would be if all 4 of those guys were off the board when we pick because then there would be some really good OLB, DE, OL, WR, CB's available for us to pick Nix would still somehow find a way to f*ck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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