Thoner7 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'm a big supporter of the IDEA of regionalization. A large fan base encompassing Buffalo, Rochester and Toronto could help keep the Bills in WNY for decades to come. Unfortunately, the REALITY of regionalization isn't everything we might hope for. The lukewarm love the Bills receive in TO is disappointing. A shame the players feel it. Maybe more love will come as years go by. The Bills need to win. Winning brings fans. The Bills have fans all over the US, who have no connection to Buffalo, because of the Kelly/Levy years. Now a days there is an entire generation of fans local to Buffalo who couldnt care less about the team becasue they havent made the playoffs their entire lives (at at least as far back as they can remember) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 If you happen to live in this region and are also a fan of the Jets, Dolphins, Bears or Redskins, this game may have some appeal to you. It's a rare oooportunity to see your team and the cost would be similar to traveling to their home stadiums, i.e. expensive. You'd probably be willing to overlook the lack of a great gameday experience as well. If you happen to live in this region and are a Bills' fan, there is very little appeal to going to this game, regardless of which side of the border you live on. The marked up prices and diluted gameday experience make it easy to "just say no" to this game and yes to the other 7. What that leaves is a crowd that is either largely disinterested in the game or that is there to see the other team. What really stinks, IMO, is the loss of an October home game and getting stuck with 3 December home games including Christmas Eve. One sign of this was market situation was the price that Bills/Eagles tickets were getting. When tickets are going for 2 to 3 X face value for a game that is televised, it tells you that these people are not planning on going to a December game when the only other options were the Toronto game or the sold out Jets game. Given that a bad Dolphins team, the Titans and Broncos are not likely to be big draws, it would not surprise me if they failed to sell out all three of these games. Great points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Will Chris Brown report on this? Doubtful http://nationalpost.stats.com/fb/story.asp?i=20111026131634782764508 Updated link to give JW the byline... ESPN put its AFC East blogger in the article so I thought he wrote it... Once we win some superbowls they will "always" have been fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 If you happen to live in this region and are also a fan of the Jets, Dolphins, Bears or Redskins, this game may have some appeal to you. It's a rare oooportunity to see your team and the cost would be similar to traveling to their home stadiums, i.e. expensive. You'd probably be willing to overlook the lack of a great gameday experience as well. If you happen to live in this region and are a Bills' fan, there is very little appeal to going to this game, regardless of which side of the border you live on. The marked up prices and diluted gameday experience make it easy to "just say no" to this game and yes to the other 7. What that leaves is a crowd that is either largely disinterested in the game or that is there to see the other team. What really stinks, IMO, is the loss of an October home game and getting stuck with 3 December home games including Christmas Eve. One sign of this was market situation was the price that Bills/Eagles tickets were getting. When tickets are going for 2 to 3 X face value for a game that is televised, it tells you that these people are not planning on going to a December game when the only other options were the Toronto game or the sold out Jets game. Given that a bad Dolphins team, the Titans and Broncos are not likely to be big draws, it would not surprise me if they failed to sell out all three of these games. Your first two paragraphs were very good, but that last sentence brings up anew the point that Promo and I made above. Can we really say that Bills fans are so awesome and dedicated, and it is such a crime that they have been "cheated" out of one game, when those same fans will decide not to bother to buy tickets for three home games that are at the Ralph because of the weather/season or because of the opposition? Do people in Green Bay, or Pittsburgh decide to stay away from games because it is cold? Does this not strike anyone else as talking out of both sides of our mouths as Bills fans? I know, GB and Pitts have been better than Buffalo for the past decade. But to my mind, Bills fans either need to be honest that failing to sell out home games flies in the face of the efforts to tout themselves as the most devoted fans of all, or they need to shut the front door about complaining about having one game in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 To add to what RJ posted directly above, the Bills have traditionally had the lowest ticket prices in the league so some of our good track record in terms of attendance are aided by this fact. The fact that many season ticket holders have said that they'd be willing to pay a bit more for a better product only mitigates this a bit, IMO. Bottom line, all things being equal, the cheaper the tickets, the easier they are to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Considering the Bucs played a "home" game in England, and the NFL wants more international games, a "home" game in Toronto isn't so bad. Tampa Bay, England--same difference really. They're both right next to the Atlantic Ocean after all--at least if you consider the Gulf of Mexico part of the Atlantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 and here's the full story that just moved. Full story jw and to be fair to George, he wasn't "ripping" Toronto or its residents, simply the general lack of support the Bills get in a "home" game at the Rogers Centre as compared to playing at Ralph Wilson Stadium. I agree, he wasn't ripping Toronto at all, but the fact that the Bills have one less home game then every other team in the NFL (except the unlucky team that gets a home game in London-and that is a different team each year), year in and year out. Our frugal owner's money grab puts this team at a disadvantage every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 To add to what RJ posted directly above, the Bills have traditionally had the lowest ticket prices in the league so some of our good track record in terms of attendance are aided by this fact. The fact that many season ticket holders have said that they'd be willing to pay a bit more for a better product only mitigates this a bit, IMO. Bottom line, all things being equal, the cheaper the tickets, the easier they are to sell. Of course as was mentioned, all things have not been close to equal. I don't know how you scientifically figure out some utilitarian graph where price becomes too high to offset a better on-field product; but at least for me, $85 for a contending team is much more appealing than $60 for a Jauron-era snoozefest team. Denver & Tenn won't have a problem selling if we're in the thick of things imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Of course as was mentioned, all things have not been close to equal. I don't know how you scientifically figure out some utilitarian graph where price becomes too high to offset a better on-field product; but at least for me, $85 for a contending team is much more appealing than $60 for a Jauron-era snoozefest team. Denver & Tenn won't have a problem selling if we're in the thick of things imo. Tennessee perhaps not, but Denver on Xmas eve will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 with all due respect john, i feel that the team realizes a nice profit regardless of the toronto series. a simple question needs to be asked:if ralph and co are not satisfied with the money made in this market, sell the team . i am quite sure that there are enough parties in buffalo that would be interested in purchasing the bills and living with the profit margin that the buffalo market(minus the toronto game) would be realized. it just reeks of a money grab, plain and simple. not every franchise can be DALLAS, THE NYC market, it is what it is. i feel the team as is , is an asset to the league based on the historic and tradition it represents. the league seems to be smart enough to realize this. they need the "green bay's", the "bills" to maintain its identity. Who's to say the new owners wouldn't snap this deal up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Of course as was mentioned, all things have not been close to equal. I don't know how you scientifically figure out some utilitarian graph where price becomes too high to offset a better on-field product; but at least for me, $85 for a contending team is much more appealing than $60 for a Jauron-era snoozefest team. Denver & Tenn won't have a problem selling if we're in the thick of things imo. Of course not. But that does not exactly sound like a ringing endorsement of the "Bills fans are the best in the league" line, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Of course not. But that does not exactly sound like a ringing endorsement of the "Bills fans are the best in the league" line, does it? One of the biggest stadiums in the league, for the 2nd smallest NFL market with a bad economy, during the winter of a team that has missed the playoffs 11 straight years. Bills fans are amazing but they're not completely insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmann2 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm a big supporter of the IDEA of regionalization. A large fan base encompassing Buffalo, Rochester and Toronto could help keep the Bills in WNY for decades to come. Unfortunately, the REALITY of regionalization isn't everything we might hope for. The lukewarm love the Bills receive in TO is disappointing. A shame the players feel it. Maybe more love will come as years go by. Fans in Toronto are all about the Maple Leafs, those players are Gods to those people. They have minimal interest in the Raptors, Blue Jays, Bills and Argonauts. I understand what Buffalo is trying to do. Believe it or not, selling the naming rights of the stadium would bring the franchise so much more money. But no, like Mike Brown, Mr. Wilson wants to keep the family name on the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I wouldnt say thats "ripping" on toronto How do you say that Wilson is NOT ripping Toronto? He's directly stating that the fans cheer for any big play, and wear any teams jersey (i.e.: they are not REAL Bills fans). Wilson does an excellent job pointing out that this hits their home-field advantage, and as a player representative, Wilson is speaking for more than just himself. This deal has nothing to do with what is best for the Buffalo Bills team, and has everything to do with what is best for the pocketbook of Mr. Wilson. I love the idea to regionalize the team, but is it a coincidence that the Bills have lost every game that they have played in Toronto thus far? It's a regular season game played in a pre-season environment. I would say that not only is a rip, but a solid criticism of selling the Bills out to a higher bidder. I hope that this plan is scrapped once the deal expires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 How do you say that Wilson is NOT ripping Toronto? He's directly stating that the fans cheer for any big play, and wear any teams jersey (i.e.: they are not REAL Bills fans). Wilson does an excellent job pointing out that this hits their home-field advantage, and as a player representative, Wilson is speaking for more than just himself. This deal has nothing to do with what is best for the Buffalo Bills team, and has everything to do with what is best for the pocketbook of Mr. Wilson. I love the idea to regionalize the team, but is it a coincidence that the Bills have lost every game that they have played in Toronto thus far? It's a regular season game played in a pre-season environment. I would say that not only is a rip, but a solid criticism of selling the Bills out to a higher bidder. I hope that this plan is scrapped once the deal expires. He is certainly ripping the whole Toronto deal that the Bills made, but how can you consider this a rip of Toronto people? The people he is referring to aren't Bills fans. If you lived in Toronto and were a Jets fan and went to a Bills Jets game with a Jets jersey on and cheered for the Jets, would you be upset if George Wilson said that you weren't a Bills fan?? He isn't saying the Bills fans that go to the game aren't loud enough or aren't true fans, he said that not enough Bills fans are at the game. It's a fact that is obvious to anyone and I can't understand why there is even any controversy about what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Your first two paragraphs were very good, but that last sentence brings up anew the point that Promo and I made above. Can we really say that Bills fans are so awesome and dedicated, and it is such a crime that they have been "cheated" out of one game, when those same fans will decide not to bother to buy tickets for three home games that are at the Ralph because of the weather/season or because of the opposition? Do people in Green Bay, or Pittsburgh decide to stay away from games because it is cold? Does this not strike anyone else as talking out of both sides of our mouths as Bills fans? I know, GB and Pitts have been better than Buffalo for the past decade. But to my mind, Bills fans either need to be honest that failing to sell out home games flies in the face of the efforts to tout themselves as the most devoted fans of all, or they need to shut the front door about complaining about having one game in Toronto. I have no problem with the premise that the pats on the back Bills' fans get are a little undeserved. Afterall, there is a reason that the comeback game against the Houston Oilers was blacked-out. The big seating capacity (used to be 80,020) and relativley small demand drive the season ticket count down in a classic supply and demand scenario. The buyers in this case can always get access to game tickets should they feel the desire to attend. There are many Bills fans that would be miserable at a game in sub freezing weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) Ready for the flaming but.... Go fill the stadium. That's not a commentary on Toronto as much as a commentary on the fact that "the greatest fans in the world" aren't willing to fill the stands due to a relatively short commute. Don't give the "meh I guess I'll watch a game" fans in Toronto a chance to even buy tickets. Send a ton of buffalo dollars into that community and make it obvious that the city and state should fight for the game to come back because it's not growing the fan base, it's just making our fans in buffalo drive money out of the city. How do you say that Wilson is NOT ripping Toronto? He's directly stating that the fans cheer for any big play, and wear any teams jersey (i.e.: they are not REAL Bills fans). Wilson does an excellent job pointing out that this hits their home-field advantage, and as a player representative, Wilson is speaking for more than just himself. This deal has nothing to do with what is best for the Buffalo Bills team, and has everything to do with what is best for the pocketbook of Mr. Wilson. I love the idea to regionalize the team, but is it a coincidence that the Bills have lost every game that they have played in Toronto thus far? It's a regular season game played in a pre-season environment. I would say that not only is a rip, but a solid criticism of selling the Bills out to a higher bidder. I hope that this plan is scrapped once the deal expires. It won't be scrapped. And frankly, why are the fans in buffalo relying on people of Toronto to give a home field advantage for them? I see college bowl games flooded with fans thousands of miles away. This is what, a two hour drive? Go to the game. The deal sucks but support your team. Edited October 30, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Ready for the flaming but.... Go fill the stadium. That's not a commentary on Toronto as much as a commentary on the fact that "the greatest fans in the world" aren't willing to fill the stands due to a relatively short commute. Don't give the "meh I guess I'll watch a game" fans in Toronto a chance to even buy tickets. Send a ton of buffalo dollars into that community and make it obvious that the city and state should fight for the game to come back because it's not growing the fan base, it's just making our fans in buffalo drive money out of the city. It won't be scrapped. And frankly, why are the fans in buffalo relying on people of Toronto to give a home field advantage for them? I see college bowl games flooded with fans thousands of miles away. This is what, a two hour drive? Go to the game. The deal sucks but support your team. +1 at least. The moving target complaints about Toronto are a cause of endless amusement. Many here complain that toronto "gets" an October game but the Ralph is "stuck with" three games in December, but if a December game went to Toronto the same folks would be wailing and gnashing their teeth about losing home field advantage for a game with playoff implications. Buy a ticket or don't, people. But don't pretend that relying on someone else to provide home field advantage makes you a great fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerharvardquarterback Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) As a Torontonian Bills die-hard, I can say this: George Wilson is right, though I strongly don't think it's my fellow residents' fault for not paying to see a team they can easily see in a far better environment for one-third the price. BUT: my two brothers, my dad and I will be doing our best to bring tha noise this afternoon! Goooo Bills. Edited October 30, 2011 by formerharvardquarterback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Wheels Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm glad what people will remember about George Wilson is his stellar play today and not a simple statement of fact before the game. 9 tackles and a big interception. Rodney Harrison just called him the "defensive player of the year so far" on NBC. Whoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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