Moats back to outside?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Now that we have Barnett, Davis, Morrison, Sheppard and White are a ILB they should move Moats back to the outside where he excelled last year as he truly is invisible on the inside. Also there are only two back ups on the outside (Batten, Eddins) and four on the inside, it would give us more balance in the line backing core.

[Kelly the Dog]

Carrington is another outside backer. Moats is likely third string either way. Bryan Scott has also been playing the equivalent of OLB in nickel and dime packages. I don't see Moats being active much, barring injury, but it's hard to tell what they have in mind for him because he's been so invisible.

[frogger]

Pass rush specialist

[Green Lightning]

Carrington is another outside backer. Moats is likely third string either way. Bryan Scott has also been playing the equivalent of OLB in nickel and dime packages. I don't see Moats being active much, barring injury, but it's hard to tell what they have in mind for him because he's been so invisible.

 

Rush the passer. And he'll do damn well.

[symbiant]

He's the hybrid backup who can play ILB or OLB in a pinch. Chix seems to like position flex in their backups.

[Punch]

Wasn't it implied by Gailey last year that Moats spent so much time at ILB so he could become a more well rounded player? Moving Moats back outside at some point may explain why Coleman was cut in part, even also considering Carrington at OLB.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Carrington is another outside backer. Moats is likely third string either way. Bryan Scott has also been playing the equivalent of OLB in nickel and dime packages. I don't see Moats being active much, barring injury, but it's hard to tell what they have in mind for him because he's been so invisible.

Carrington is not an OLB, no 305 pounder is going to play that position. He maybe in the "OLB" spot but it is purely to rush the passer and he is the back up to Marcell.

 

Moats has been invisible because he can't play inside. They need to realize that just because he is short doesn't mean he can play ILB, he should be outside where he played well last year.

[Wayne Cubed]

So let me get this straight... You're basically saying that Bob Sanders, who is probably our best positions coach, and Dave Wannstedt don't know what they are doing by keeping Moats inside? And that you know better?

 

I'm confused on this infatuation fans have with Moats. His biggest claim is he knocked out Brett Farve. Besides that he was lousy against the run and had a couple QB pressures. How exactly did he excel?

 

If these coaches don't see it happening, then I'm going to have to believe them.

[sllib olaffub]

Either way, with Coleman being cut it just goes to show how far we've come in one year. As much as I've been vocal about my dislike of Ralph's bottom line, I also admire the ability of Nix to come in and turn this roster around - in the areas he's paid attention to. The O-line is still a disaster, but I guess after next year he'll be judged more soundly on his job, as 3 years is a pretty established timeline for turning around a team, especially when the method is almost exclusively via the draft.

 

Anyway, as I was saying - last year we were hurting badly with this linebacking corps. Now, we have such a group that a guy like Coleman, who I really think could make it on half the NFL's rosters as a rush linebacker in some capacity, gets cut. Moats, who we all like, is relegated to 3rd string. There is a good mix of veteran ability and young potential. And, something I really like especially with our defense, we have, in our front seven, so much interchangeability that when we line up Dareus, Williams, Edwards/Johnson, with Merriman, Davis, Barnett, and Coleman/Kelsay as linebackers - it could be a 4-3 or 3-4 without changing personnel. With those guys out there, who is going to apply pressure? It could be Merriman, or Barnett, or Carrington, or Dareus or Williams - our opponents are going to have to have everyone accounted for. And, it's a big group either way. You add to that the size of our secondary, now with a couple big safeties in Scott and Searcy who are both the size of small 4-3 linebackers, and even Williams who is solid - we've got a defense that should not be pushed around anymore!

Of all the developments that are taking place with this team, at least I'd say we finally have a decent defense in place, personnel wise. You can win with a good defense and an average offense, so it was a good way to go about a rebuild, I'd say.

Edited September 5, 2011 by sllib olaffub

[The Big Cat]

Either way, with Coleman being cut it just goes to show how far we've come in one year. As much as I've been vocal about my dislike of Ralph's bottom line, I also admire the ability of Nix to come in and turn this roster around - in the areas he's paid attention to. The O-line is still a disaster, but I guess after next year he'll be judged more soundly on his job, as 3 years is a pretty established timeline for turning around a team, especially when the method is almost exclusively via the draft.

 

Anyway, as I was saying - last year we were hurting badly with this linebacking corps. Now, we have such a group that a guy like Coleman, who I really think could make it on half the NFL's rosters as a rush linebacker in some capacity, gets cut. Moats, who we all like, is relegated to 3rd string. There is a good mix of veteran ability and young potential. And, something I really like especially with our defense, we have, in our front seven, so much interchangeability that when we line up Dareus, Williams, Edwards/Johnson, with Merriman, Davis, Barnett, and Coleman/Kelsay as linebackers - it could be a 4-3 or 3-4 without changing personnel. With those guys out there, who is going to apply pressure? It could be Merriman, or Barnett, or Carrington, or Dareus or Williams - our opponents are going to have to have everyone accounted for. And, it's a big group either way. You add to that the size of our secondary, now with a couple big safeties in Scott and Searcy who are both the size of small 4-3 linebackers, and even Williams who is solid - we've got a defense that should not be pushed around anymore!

Of all the developments that are taking place with this team, at least I'd say we finally have a decent defense in place, personnel wise. You can win with a good defense and an average offense, so it was a good way to go about a rebuild, I'd say.

 

+1

[altruisticbillsfan]

Moats would excel as a Rover backer and Kelsay would excel in the stands!!

[Boludo]

moats should go back outside

 

in college he excelled as a 4-3 defensive end

 

he's best at firing off the ball and dipping and turning and getting to the qb

 

i understand we don't run a 4-3 and he can't put his hand in the dirt in a traditional sense, but nonetheless playing as an edge rusher is still likely to suit him better

 

he's a great athlete and i'm sure they had their reasons, but outside seems like a more logical place for him

 

So let me get this straight... You're basically saying that Bob Sanders, who is probably our best positions coach, and Dave Wannstedt don't know what they are doing by keeping Moats inside? And that you know better?

 

this is a ridiculous argument

 

people running nfl teams OBVIOUSLY know more about football than the average fan

 

so by your logic, no one should ever disagree with anything that any team ever does, because after all, they would know better

[Wayne Cubed]

moats should go back outside

 

in college he excelled as a 4-3 defensive end

 

he's best at firing off the ball and dipping and turning and getting to the qb

 

i understand we don't run a 4-3 and he can't put his hand in the dirt in a traditional sense, but nonetheless playing as an edge rusher is still likely to suit him better

 

he's a great athlete and i'm sure they had their reasons, but outside seems like a more logical place for him

 

 

 

this is a ridiculous argument

 

people running nfl teams OBVIOUSLY know more about football than the average fan

 

so by your logic, no one should ever disagree with anything that any team ever does, because after all, they would know better

 

How is this argument so ridiculous? People are certainly entitled their opinion. But this topic has been beaten like a dead horse. And I think you said it best actually, the coaches know more than the "average fan". If these "average fans" know soooooo well where Arthur Moats should be playing then they definitely chose the wrong career path. I also welcome any argument that says why he should be playing on the outside. And just because the average fan says he excelled last year is not an argument. Specifics would be nice. Where exactly did he excel? What were his weak points or areas of concern? Also because that's what he was laying in college is not an argument either. Gifted athletes change positions in the NFL, it does happen.

[Boludo]

no sense ever debating any personnel decision any team makes, since the GMs know better

 

no sense ever disagreeing with a gameplan, since the coaches know better

 

no sense ever disagreeing with a call, since the refs know better

 

they might as well just cancel this message board

[altruisticbillsfan]

How is this argument so ridiculous? People are certainly entitled their opinion. But this topic has been beaten like a dead horse. And I think you said it best actually, the coaches know more than the "average fan". If these "average fans" know soooooo well where Arthur Moats should be playing then they definitely chose the wrong career path. I also welcome any argument that says why he should be playing on the outside. And just because the average fan says he excelled last year is not an argument. Specifics would be nice. Where exactly did he excel? What were his weak points or areas of concern? Also because that's what he was laying in college is not an argument either. Gifted athletes change positions in the NFL, it does happen.

 

It took me a while to stop laughing after reading your post! Obviously you chose the right career in life--having nothing to do with football. Anyways, you sports Diva you, it appears that you lack the adroitness or aptitude of the novis fan and apparently compelled to wipe the bottoms of the coaching staff regardless of their fortuitous decisions. So, do me a favor "average fan" , argue the ensuing information:

 

1. McNamara plays Buckner

In 1986, BoSox first baseman Bill Buckner could do little more than hobble around on his bum ankles. Everyone knew that. So why didn't Red Sox coach John McNamara replace Buckner with Dave Stapleton to shore up the defense as the Red Sox headed toward victory, and a World Series win, in Game 6 of the 1986 World Series? It was a move he had made all season long. But

 

McNamara was being sentimental. He wanted Buckner to be on the field for the final three outs of the Red Sox World Series championship. You know the rest.

 

2. Dressen's call heard 'round the bullpen

What was Dodgers manager Chuck Dressen thinking? Bobby Thomson's famous 1951 homer was, in a way, predictable -- Thomson had already tagged Branca for two taters that season. The Giants, as a team, had Ralph's number -- they'd beaten Branca six times in 1951. Dodger GM Branch Rickey knew of Branca's penchant for giving up the gopher. Yet, with all this info at his disposal, Dressen picked Branca to face Thomson. And that¹s all she wrote.

 

 

Marty Mornhinweg did not win a road game in two years as Lions coach.

3. Mornhinweg's boner

Ah, the one that inspired this list. Sudden-death OT, his team wins the flip, and Mornhinweg chooses to kick. Hey, the Lions get the wind at their back! But, hey! The Bears get the ball! The Lions never have a chance, as the Bears score on the first, and only, possession of OT to win the game. To quote TMQ, "Ye Gods!"

 

4. Miracle at the Meadowlands

1978. Giants lead the Eagles 17-12 with 20 seconds left. Eagles have no timeouts left. All NY QB Joe Pisarcik has to do is fall on the ball, and ... game over. But Giants offensive coordinator Bob Gibson calls a handoff to Larry Csonka. Csonka can't believe it when he hears the call in the huddle, and says, "Don't give me the ball." The exchange between Pisarcik and Csonka is botched. Herman Edwards snags the loose ball and runs 26 yards for the winning TD.

 

The next day, Gibson gets his walking papers. At the end of the season, Giants head coach John McVay is gone. And the Eagles, thanks to the Miracle, make the playoffs.

 

5. The Dictator's choice

Everyone remembers the USA Hockey Team's 1980 "Miracle on Ice." But what we sometimes forget is that the U.S. might not have defeated the Soviet Union in the semifinals were it not for one of the most boneheaded coaching moves in hockey history. With the score tied 2-2 at the end of the first period, Soviet coach Viktor Tikhonov benched Vladislav Tretiak, the best goalie in the world, for reasons that are still unfathomable. The U.S. won, of course, 4-3. Tretiak, who led the Soviets to gold medals in the 1972 and 1976 Olympics, says he still doesn¹t know why it happened. Warren Strelow, Team USA¹s goaltending coach in 1980, couldn't figure it out either. "I thought Tikhonov was nuts," he said. "Absolutely nuts."

 

6. Russell vs. Jordan

Maybe if Utah coach Jerry Sloan had Bill Russell ... but this was 1998, so it couldn't happen. However, Bryon Russell was available, and he was the only man assigned to cover Michael Jordan during the final seconds of Game 6. In Game 1 of their 1997 playoff matchup, Sloan had gone with Russell single-teaming Jordan, and the result was a game-winner by Jordan. This is close to a repeat, except with total finality: Jazz have a one-point lead, Bulls lead the series three games to two, Russell falls down, Jordan sinks the game-winner. "When the Jazz needed to run everyone, including their mascot, at Jordan on the final Bulls' possession, to make him give the ball up, or at least make it a tougher shot, Jordan got a wide-open look," wrote

Kevin Steele eventually made some progress at Baylor, but not enough to save his job.

Mitch Lawrence of the New York Daily News.

 

7. Steele's costly attitude

Baylor had UNLV beat -- they led 24-21 with about 20 seconds left in the Sept. 11, 1999 matchup between two lousy teams. The Bears had the ball on the Rebels eight-yard line, and if they had taken a knee, the game would have been over. Instead, Baylor head coach Kevin Steele called for a run. Darrell Bush almost made it to the goal line, but UNLV forced a fumble, and the Rebels' Kevin Thomas returned it 99 yards for a touchdown.

 

"I have an explanation, but it doesn't hold water," Steele said after the game. "We talked about creating an attitude and getting after people. We were simply trying to create an attitude."

 

8. Switzer's decision

It's a frigid December Sunday at Veterans Stadium. 1995. The Eagles and Cowboys are tied at 17; Dallas has the ball on its own 29 yard line with 2 minutes remaining. Fourth down and a foot. Head coach Barry Switzer, who later said that he didn't want to punt into the wind, takes a risk, going for a first down. Philly's defense stops Emmitt Smith cold, the Eagles take over, and Gary Anderson kicks a 42-yard field goal to win the game 20-17. Jimmy Johnson, who Switzer had replaced on the Cowboys sideline, happens to be calling the game for Fox, and offers, during the postgame show, a pithy analysis of the call: "One problem is that Barry doesn't have anyone on his staff to say, 'What are you, nuts?'"

 

9. Dennis Green sits on it

 

Dennis Green made one mistake we'll never forget.

The Vikings and Falcons are tied at 27 in the NFC Championship Game on Jan. 17, 1999. Vikings ball, 30 seconds on the clock, third-and-three on their own 30 yard line. Minnesota still has two timeouts remaining, Falcons have none. Vikings have the most explosive offensive in NFL history. But Green decides to play it safe, and runs out the clock. He's got Randall Cunningham at QB, Randy Moss at wideout, and a pretty good chance to get the NFL's best placekicker a shot at a game-winner. But instead, Green orders Cunningham to take a knee, hoping the Vikes will get the coin flip in OT. They do win the flip, but Atlanta scores first and wins, 30-27.

 

"Minnesota coach Dennis Green did a great job this year," wrote SI's Peter King later that week, "but if he doesn't wake up and stare at the ceiling in the next few days and say out loud: 'Boy, I screwed that one up,' then he's not being honest with himself."

 

10. Bird-brained

With the Pacers and Lakers tied near the end of regulation in Game 4 of the 2000 NBA Finals, Indiana coach Larry Bird calls on an unlikely -- and not-too-smart, in this situation -- go-to guy. Travis Best, 5-foot-11, gets the iso call as Reggie Miller and Rick Smits stand around, twiddling their shooting thumbs. It's Best vs. Shaq, and guess who doesn't win? Best misses his shot with 2.5 seconds left in regulation, and L.A. goes on to win in OT, giving the Lakers an insurmountable 3-1 series lead. As the New York Post's Peter Vecsey wrote of the Pacers' final regulation possession, "The whole planet knows Mark Jackson should've been out there orchestrating the most important high pick-and-roll in franchise history."

 

BTW if you made it the here, I am shocked, you can read!

Edited September 5, 2011 by altruisticbillsfan

[ChevyVanMiller]

It took me a while to stop laughing after reading your post! Obviously you chose the right career in life--having nothing to do with football. Anyways, you sports Diva you, it appears that you lack the adroitness or aptitude of the novis fan and apparently compelled to wipe the bottoms of the coaching staff regardless of their fortuitous decisions. So, do me a favor "average fan" , argue the ensuing information:

 

1. McNamara plays Buckner

In 1986, BoSox first baseman Bill Buckner could do little more than hobble around on his bum ankles. Everyone knew that. So why didn't Red Sox coach John McNamara replace Buckner with Dave Stapleton to shore up the defense as the Red Sox headed toward victory, and a World Series win, in Game 6 of the 1986 World Series? It was a move he had made all season long. But

 

McNamara was being sentimental. He wanted Buckner to be on the field for the final three outs of the Red Sox World Series championship. You know the rest.

 

2. Dressen's call heard 'round the bullpen

What was Dodgers manager Chuck Dressen thinking? Bobby Thomson's famous 1951 homer was, in a way, predictable -- Thomson had already tagged Branca for two taters that season. The Giants, as a team, had Ralph's number -- they'd beaten Branca six times in 1951. Dodger GM Branch Rickey knew of Branca's penchant for giving up the gopher. Yet, with all this info at his disposal, Dressen picked Branca to face Thomson. And that¹s all she wrote.

 

 

Marty Mornhinweg did not win a road game in two years as Lions coach.

3. Mornhinweg's boner

Ah, the one that inspired this list. Sudden-death OT, his team wins the flip, and Mornhinweg chooses to kick. Hey, the Lions get the wind at their back! But, hey! The Bears get the ball! The Lions never have a chance, as the Bears score on the first, and only, possession of OT to win the game. To quote TMQ, "Ye Gods!"

 

4. Miracle at the Meadowlands

1978. Giants lead the Eagles 17-12 with 20 seconds left. Eagles have no timeouts left. All NY QB Joe Pisarcik has to do is fall on the ball, and ... game over. But Giants offensive coordinator Bob Gibson calls a handoff to Larry Csonka. Csonka can't believe it when he hears the call in the huddle, and says, "Don't give me the ball." The exchange between Pisarcik and Csonka is botched. Herman Edwards snags the loose ball and runs 26 yards for the winning TD.

 

The next day, Gibson gets his walking papers. At the end of the season, Giants head coach John McVay is gone. And the Eagles, thanks to the Miracle, make the playoffs.

 

5. The Dictator's choice

Everyone remembers the USA Hockey Team's 1980 "Miracle on Ice." But what we sometimes forget is that the U.S. might not have defeated the Soviet Union in the semifinals were it not for one of the most boneheaded coaching moves in hockey history. With the score tied 2-2 at the end of the first period, Soviet coach Viktor Tikhonov benched Vladislav Tretiak, the best goalie in the world, for reasons that are still unfathomable. The U.S. won, of course, 4-3. Tretiak, who led the Soviets to gold medals in the 1972 and 1976 Olympics, says he still doesn¹t know why it happened. Warren Strelow, Team USA¹s goaltending coach in 1980, couldn't figure it out either. "I thought Tikhonov was nuts," he said. "Absolutely nuts."

 

6. Russell vs. Jordan

Maybe if Utah coach Jerry Sloan had Bill Russell ... but this was 1998, so it couldn't happen. However, Bryon Russell was available, and he was the only man assigned to cover Michael Jordan during the final seconds of Game 6. In Game 1 of their 1997 playoff matchup, Sloan had gone with Russell single-teaming Jordan, and the result was a game-winner by Jordan. This is close to a repeat, except with total finality: Jazz have a one-point lead, Bulls lead the series three games to two, Russell falls down, Jordan sinks the game-winner. "When the Jazz needed to run everyone, including their mascot, at Jordan on the final Bulls' possession, to make him give the ball up, or at least make it a tougher shot, Jordan got a wide-open look," wrote

Kevin Steele eventually made some progress at Baylor, but not enough to save his job.

Mitch Lawrence of the New York Daily News.

 

7. Steele's costly attitude

Baylor had UNLV beat -- they led 24-21 with about 20 seconds left in the Sept. 11, 1999 matchup between two lousy teams. The Bears had the ball on the Rebels eight-yard line, and if they had taken a knee, the game would have been over. Instead, Baylor head coach Kevin Steele called for a run. Darrell Bush almost made it to the goal line, but UNLV forced a fumble, and the Rebels' Kevin Thomas returned it 99 yards for a touchdown.

 

"I have an explanation, but it doesn't hold water," Steele said after the game. "We talked about creating an attitude and getting after people. We were simply trying to create an attitude."

 

8. Switzer's decision

It's a frigid December Sunday at Veterans Stadium. 1995. The Eagles and Cowboys are tied at 17; Dallas has the ball on its own 29 yard line with 2 minutes remaining. Fourth down and a foot. Head coach Barry Switzer, who later said that he didn't want to punt into the wind, takes a risk, going for a first down. Philly's defense stops Emmitt Smith cold, the Eagles take over, and Gary Anderson kicks a 42-yard field goal to win the game 20-17. Jimmy Johnson, who Switzer had replaced on the Cowboys sideline, happens to be calling the game for Fox, and offers, during the postgame show, a pithy analysis of the call: "One problem is that Barry doesn't have anyone on his staff to say, 'What are you, nuts?'"

 

9. Dennis Green sits on it

 

Dennis Green made one mistake we'll never forget.

The Vikings and Falcons are tied at 27 in the NFC Championship Game on Jan. 17, 1999. Vikings ball, 30 seconds on the clock, third-and-three on their own 30 yard line. Minnesota still has two timeouts remaining, Falcons have none. Vikings have the most explosive offensive in NFL history. But Green decides to play it safe, and runs out the clock. He's got Randall Cunningham at QB, Randy Moss at wideout, and a pretty good chance to get the NFL's best placekicker a shot at a game-winner. But instead, Green orders Cunningham to take a knee, hoping the Vikes will get the coin flip in OT. They do win the flip, but Atlanta scores first and wins, 30-27.

 

"Minnesota coach Dennis Green did a great job this year," wrote SI's Peter King later that week, "but if he doesn't wake up and stare at the ceiling in the next few days and say out loud: 'Boy, I screwed that one up,' then he's not being honest with himself."

 

10. Bird-brained

With the Pacers and Lakers tied near the end of regulation in Game 4 of the 2000 NBA Finals, Indiana coach Larry Bird calls on an unlikely -- and not-too-smart, in this situation -- go-to guy. Travis Best, 5-foot-11, gets the iso call as Reggie Miller and Rick Smits stand around, twiddling their shooting thumbs. It's Best vs. Shaq, and guess who doesn't win? Best misses his shot with 2.5 seconds left in regulation, and L.A. goes on to win in OT, giving the Lakers an insurmountable 3-1 series lead. As the New York Post's Peter Vecsey wrote of the Pacers' final regulation possession, "The whole planet knows Mark Jackson should've been out there orchestrating the most important high pick-and-roll in franchise history."

 

BTW if you made it the here, I am shocked, you can read!

Maybe the single longest internal response to a thread in TSW history, but I enjoyed reading every one of these "boneheaded" decisions by coaches and want to thank you for kindly omitting Wade and the "Music City Miracle" debacle.

 

Cheers...

Edited September 5, 2011 by ChevyVanMiller

[Alaska Darin]

"3. Mornhinweg's boner

Ah, the one that inspired this list. Sudden-death OT, his team wins the flip, and Mornhinweg chooses to kick. Hey, the Lions get the wind at their back! But, hey! The Bears get the ball! The Lions never have a chance, as the Bears score on the first, and only, possession of OT to win the game."

 

Jack Pardee took the ball in OT of the Miracle Comback...

 

There's no perfect formula for winning a football game. Sometimes you go with your gut and win, other times you lose.

[FLFan]

Carrington is another outside backer. Moats is likely third string either way. Bryan Scott has also been playing the equivalent of OLB in nickel and dime packages. I don't see Moats being active much, barring injury, but it's hard to tell what they have in mind for him because he's been so invisible.

If they address OL depth in the next week or so, Moats may be the first cut. Like you said, he is third string inside or outside right now. They are not through tinkering with the lineup yet.

[I hate the Bills !]

Moats should go back to the outside and Kelsey should be sent packing there is a cost cutting move.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Since last year Chan did the same thing I would hope he relaizes his errors again w Moats. he is an OLB rusher, not much else. Inside he is too small.