Beerball Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I'm happy that his suffering has ended Hopefully KRC, RR, Wawrow or someone else can fill everyone in on just how good this guy was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) One of the few in the history of the game that actually defined a position. A true great. Loved to watch him when I was a kid. I can only hope that this generation of players, many of whom that will earn generational wealth, will hear the voices of retired players and make damn sure that players like Mackey won't have to suffer a lifetime from injuries sustained on the field. There's enough money to take care of injured vets. RIP, John Mackey. GO BILLS!!! Edited July 7, 2011 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 One of the few in the history of the game that actually defined a position. A true great. Loved to watch him when I was a kid. I can only hope that this generation of players, many of whom that will earn generational wealth, will hear the voices of retired players and make damn sure that players like Mackey won't have to suffer a lifetime from injuries sustained on the field. There's enough money to take care of injured vets. RIP, John Mackey. GO BILLS!!! RIP...one of the all time great TEs along with Winslow and a few others. The dementia issue is very tough...because all the money in the world--while it may give the present players good care--won't prevent them from getting dementia due to the concussions/trauma.Very serious issue...-although I think most of us would take the fame and fortune despite the risk of serious brain issues starting at even younger than 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 what an awful disease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Here is my article from this morning: Obit As K-9 mentioned, he truly defined the position of tight end as a vertical threat. In my opinion, he was the greatest tight end of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 RIP...one of the all time great TEs along with Winslow and a few others. The dementia issue is very tough...because all the money in the world--while it may give the present players good care--won't prevent them from getting dementia due to the concussions/trauma.Very serious issue...-although I think most of us would take the fame and fortune despite the risk of serious brain issues starting at even younger than 50. While I don't dispute for a second that repeated head trauma leads to degenerative brain disease, I'm not so certain that Mackey's was due to this. Frontotemporal dementia can occur sporadically or run in families, and the onset is typically in the 50s, which fits in his case. Aside from the fact that he played football and was famous, there is nothing unusual about his circumstances to suggest that head trauma was the cause, at least from what I read in Pitoniak's article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 While I don't dispute for a second that repeated head trauma leads to degenerative brain disease, I'm not so certain that Mackey's was due to this. Frontotemporal dementia can occur sporadically or run in families, and the onset is typically in the 50s, which fits in his case. Aside from the fact that he played football and was famous, there is nothing unusual about his circumstances to suggest that head trauma was the cause, at least from what I read in Pitoniak's article. True, there is nothing from the article to lead anyone to think that Mackey's dementia was caused by repeated brain trauma. Perhaps he would have had the same condition had he not played a down of football in his life. What can't be disputed is that Mackey, like many players, suffered multiple concussions during his playing career. Many of these players will continue to suffer from post-concussion syndrome long after their playing days are over and I hope the players will vote to increase medical benefits for retired players. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 While I don't dispute for a second that repeated head trauma leads to degenerative brain disease, I'm not so certain that Mackey's was due to this. Frontotemporal dementia can occur sporadically or run in families, and the onset is typically in the 50s, which fits in his case. Aside from the fact that he played football and was famous, there is nothing unusual about his circumstances to suggest that head trauma was the cause, at least from what I read in Pitoniak's article. You are correct that the link is not 'certain'.However,it seems that an awful lot of these athletes are ending up in nursing homes at very young ages.I would like to see the actual statistics though. My educated guess is that the incidence of dementia--even frontotemporal--is much higher in those who have had head trauma through football or boxing or auto accidents or other reasons. There of course are people who--with no know history of trauma---develope dementia at an early age. I would think that 100% certain correlation betw repeat trauma and many dementias is impossible to ascertain.Tricky thing the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Here is my article from this morning: Obit As K-9 mentioned, he truly defined the position of tight end as a vertical threat. In my opinion, he was the greatest tight end of all time. "..As only the second pure tight end to be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame (Mike Ditka was first), Mackey helped re-define the position. However, he battled dementia the last decade of his life and struggled to pay for his care on his $2,500 per month pension." How was that possible -Ditka beating JM into the HOF? Damn sports writers.. I watched him in awe during the '60's, then feared the hell outta him when the 2 Leagues merged and we had to play them twice a year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Ran people over! That's why he was so good. A Bull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 "..As only the second pure tight end to be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame (Mike Ditka was first), Mackey helped re-define the position. However, he battled dementia the last decade of his life and struggled to pay for his care on his $2,500 per month pension." How was that possible -Ditka beating JM into the HOF? Damn sports writers.. I watched him in awe during the '60's, then feared the hell outta him when the 2 Leagues merged and we had to play them twice a year.. Mackey, who was from Long Island and a star at Syracuse, was an early and unrelenting force for players rights. He was the first head of the NFLPA, in which post he was often in confrontation with the owners. He was responsible for getting the players their health plan and fought for free agency (which the players got, only to bargain it away later on). Mackey only made it into the HOF in his 15th and final year of eligibility. So, the answer to your question is, I believe, pettiness on the owners part. BTW, when he finally got in the HOF, he refused to accept the ring in Indianapolis. He would only accept it in Baltimore, even though they didn't have an NFL team at the time. That very much sums up the kind of man he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 So, the answer to your question is, I believe, pettiness on the owners media's part. Fixed. The owners do not vote for the HOF. It is strictly the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Fixed. The owners do not vote for the HOF. It is strictly the media. soooooo... we can blame you, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 soooooo... we can blame you, right? I am not a member of the media. If I were a selector, Lavern Dilweg would be in the Hall of Fame. Here is why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) I am not a member of the media. If I were a selector, Lavern Dilweg would be in the Hall of Fame. Here is why... You've made a compelling and inarguable case. Great work. Seems like with those credentials, Dilweg still should have a shot with The Seniors Committee. Also I would guess that the protocol would be that because Dilweg played predominantly for the Packers, that it would be the duty/responsibility (or whatever you want to call it) of the Green Bay Packers beat writers to champion his cause. Edited July 9, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 You've made a compelling and inarguable case. Great work. Seems like with those credentials, Dilweg still should have a shot with The Seniors Committee. Also I would guess that the protocol would be that because Dilweg played predominantly for the Packers, that it would be the duty/responsibility (or whatever you want to call it) of the Green Bay Packers beat writers to champion his cause. Things are a little different with the seniors. There is a mail vote to get the list down to a manageable level. Then, they meet in Canton and talk to advisers (usually Joe Horrigan and a HOFer or two). They will then make their decision. I have definitely one, possibly two seniors selectors firmly on my side. Of the nine member committee, only five vote in a given year and it rotates each year. I have received luke-warm or no responses from the other selectors. One selector stated that there is a LOT of pressure from coaches and players to get Ken Anderson in this year. Other selectors have specific players they want in (the names they have given me are decent, but not as good as Dilweg). A retired selector stated that the committee looks to historians to get information on the older players (that is where I come in). That is how Benny Friedman and Frtiz Pollard got in a few years ago. Benny Friedman's case was from Bob Carroll, my predecessor at the PFRA. Pollard's case was from Joel Bussert, who is now in the NFL offices. He is a long-time PFRA member. Another selector stated that Hall of Famers carry the most weight. That is how Chris Hanburger got in last year. I am working to get Bart Starr to help out. The problem with Starr is that he would support Jerry Kramer before he would support a Packer from a previous era. The selectors might look at the number of Lombardi Packers in the HOF and might vote against Dilweg for fear of having too many Packers in there. My philosophy is that it does not matter what team they played for. If they are deserving, put them in. He was not part of the Lombardi Packers, so that argument carries little weight with me. Dilweg made the final 15 last year, so there is hope that he could make the final two this year. If Anderson gets one of the spots, that makes it more difficult as there is a push for a few other players. We will find out in August. I keep putting it out there. The Packer Report published this article and I have mentioned it on Fox Sports Radio in Wisconsin when I was interviewed last week. Here is the podcast: My interview. Just go to 6-30-11 and my spot is about 1 hour 20 minutes into the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I am not a member of the media. If I were a selector, Lavern Dilweg would be in the Hall of Fame. Here is why... Touche, Ken -and nice article. Aren't you also 'up against it' given Dilweg was a 2-way player, apparently more reknown for defense than End? We always to seem to hear about the number of WR's, RB's, etc. already in the Hall as reasons to doubt whether 'there's room' for many more ie: Andre Reed I agree that if a player is worthy, end of story -regardless of team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Touche, Ken -and nice article. Aren't you also 'up against it' given Dilweg was a 2-way player, apparently more reknown for defense than End? We always to seem to hear about the number of WR's, RB's, etc. already in the Hall as reasons to doubt whether 'there's room' for many more ie: Andre Reed I agree that if a player is worthy, end of story -regardless of team. Seeing the trend of the Seniors selectors, the age of the player is a stumbling block. He played before the beginning of pro football in 1960. Since 2000, 18 players have been finalists for the HOF. Of those, only Dick LeBeau, Marshall Goldberg, Benny Friedman, Fritz Pollard and Gene Hickerson played before 1960. LeBeau only played one year before 1960 (started in 1959) and let's be honest: he was inducted based on his coaching and not as a player. Hickerson only played two years before 1960. Therefore, both players played the bulk of their career after 1960. Goldberg is roundly criticized as a joke candidate, so that leaves Friedman and Pollard as the only two legitimate pre-1960 candidates as finalists. Only two to represent the first 40 years of NFL history!! Even if you include Goldberg, that is three of 18 (16.7%) to cover 44.4% of the league's history!! Dilweg wasn't shabby on offense. He did what he was supposed to do for the position: block. Still, his offensive stats still beat out HOF ends who played after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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