Sabres 2, Carolina 1

[Taro T]

Actually, yes they do. Vezina is awarded to the team with the lowest GA. Plain & Simple. Teams committed to low SOG will be in the hunt with just a steady goaltender. I'm not saying Miller is bad. He plays angles well. He's NOT great, by any measure, and it is Idiocy to think otherwise.

Not since the early '80's. That's the Jennings you're thinking of.

 

The Vezina is awarded to the netminder that the GM's think is the best.

[stony]

Actually, yes they do. Vezina is awarded to the team with the lowest GA. Plain & Simple. Teams committed to low SOG will be in the hunt with just a steady goaltender. I'm not saying Miller is bad. He plays angles well. He's NOT great, by any measure, and it is Idiocy to think otherwise.

 

Nope. Tough to mix these up...

 

National Hockey League (NHL) William M. Jennings Award

An annual award "to the goaltender(s) having played a minimum of 25 games for the team with the fewest goals scored against it." Winners are selected on regular-season play. Overall winner receives $10,000, and runners-up get $6,000 and $4,000. The Jennings Trophy was presented in 1981-82 by the National Hockey League's Board of Governors to honour the late William M. Jennings, longtime governor and President of the New York Rangers and one of the great builders of hockey in the United States.

Edited April 5, 2011 by stony

[Ramius]

Actually, yes they do. Vezina is awarded to the team with the lowest GA. Plain & Simple. Teams committed to low SOG will be in the hunt with just a steady goaltender. I'm not saying Miller is bad. He plays angles well. He's NOT great, by any measure, and it is Idiocy to think otherwise.

 

That'd be wrong, kinda like the rest of your Miller take.

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=24965

Edited April 5, 2011 by Ramius

[DC Tom]

Can we move this thread to PPP, so I can call with impunity some the posters here the names they so richly deserve to be called?

[Buftex]

Can we move this thread to PPP, so I can call with impunity some the posters here the names they so richly deserve to be called?

 

 

Without calling any names, can you tell us whcih ones you would call names, if you could? We gotta know!

[DC Tom]

Without calling any names, can you tell us whcih ones you would call names, if you could? We gotta know!

 

The idiots.

[bbb]

He should have started the 3rd superbowl over Kelly as he led us from the greatest comeback to the big game and Kelly wasn't ready as evidence by his multiple turnovers. Otherwise he was the clear stater and was forced out too early as he didn't get old he lost his starting Tackles (Wolford, Ballard).

 

I have always said this. I never wanted Reich to start except for the AFC Champ and Super Bowl that year........Not only did he lead the comeback, but he played great to beat Pittsburgh the next week. Kelly was very cold at the end of the year. That was back when hockey teams would ride the hot goalie and I thought we should have rode the hot QB.

[Ramius]

He should have started the 3rd superbowl over Kelly as he led us from the greatest comeback to the big game and Kelly wasn't ready as evidence by his multiple turnovers. Otherwise he was the clear stater and was forced out too early as he didn't get old he lost his starting Tackles (Wolford, Ballard).

 

Reich played almost 3 quarters in the 3rd super bowl, coming in when the Bills were only down 14-7, and sucked.

[bbb]

Reich played almost 3 quarters in the 3rd super bowl, coming in when the Bills were only down 14-7, and sucked.

 

He should have been getting the reps during the week.

[Buftex]

I have always said this. I never wanted Reich to start except for the AFC Champ and Super Bowl that year........Not only did he lead the comeback, but he played great to beat Pittsburgh the next week. Kelly was very cold at the end of the year. That was back when hockey teams would ride the hot goalie and I thought we should have rode the hot QB.

 

 

I am fully behind starting Enroth as long as he is hot (another good game tonight), but I never wantd to see Reich starting in favor of Jim Klly. Hockey and football are two completely different sports. I think it is only normal to expect a goalie to "ware out" when he is playing too many games...Miller did carry the Sabres, to an extent, last seasoinm but was completely spent (IMO) when the playoffs rolled around.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

First of all, I believe that Ruff is a pragmatist…meaning that he'll do what he thinks is in the best interests of the team. Here's his comments from earlier today:

 

"There isn't any doubt that Ryan is the No. 1," Sabres coach Lindy Ruff said. "At the same time, and I've said this all year long, we're going to play guys that are going to help win us games. When Ryan comes back, he's got to be on top of his game. We're in the business of winning games, and Jhonas knows that stepping in, too."

 

So while he says that Miller is the number one goaltender, Ruff is leaving himself an out. And that's one helluva caveat in bold.

 

As for how good Ryan Miller is, in addition to playing youth hockey, I've been a Sabres fan since their inception. I was born in 1961 so that gives you an idea of my perspective on the team over time.

 

One of the Sabres better goalies hasn't been mentioned yet...Gerry Desjardins (65-29-18). The "other Dryden" Dave, also had some excellent years for the Sabres.

 

Barrasso matured into a better goaltender after he left Buffalo. Crozier (and Joe Daley) were both past their primes.

 

In my book of all-time greatest Sabres goaltenders, Miller is behind only Hasek and ahead of two very fine goaltenders, Bob Sauve and Don Edwards.

 

edit: And I agree that it's way too early to be suggesting that we end the Miller era in Buffalo in favor of Enroth. I'm sure there were short stretches when highly regarded prospects like Darren Puppa and Mika Norenen also looked good.

 

I believe that most knowledgeable hockey fans look at Miller's performance, statistics, and history (playoffs, Olympics, etc) and do not question whether he's one of the league's best. The Sabres attack is built on leaving Miller on an island while the defensemen join the rush (I saw recently that the Sabres have the highest percentage of points from the defensive corps of any team in the NHL).

 

Lindy Ruff leans very heavily on Ryan Miller…by encouraging his defensemen to join the attack and by playing Miller too many minutes.

 

I'm glad that we may finally have another goaltender that we can depend upon.

Edited April 6, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Reich played almost 3 quarters in the 3rd super bowl, coming in when the Bills were only down 14-7, and sucked.

Don't recall that, guess I'm getting old.

 

Can we move this thread to PPP, so I can call with impunity some the posters here the names they so richly deserve to be called?

what is PPP?

[Chandler#81]

First of all, I believe that Ruff is a pragmatist…meaning that he'll do what he thinks is in the best interests of the team. Here's his comments from earlier today:

 

"There isn't any doubt that Ryan is the No. 1," Sabres coach Lindy Ruff said. "At the same time, and I've said this all year long, we're going to play guys that are going to help win us games. When Ryan comes back, he's got to be on top of his game. We're in the business of winning games, and Jhonas knows that stepping in, too."

 

So while he says that Miller is the number one goaltender, Ruff is leaving himself an out. And that's one helluva caveat in bold.

 

As for how good Ryan Miller is, in addition to playing youth hockey, I've been a Sabres fan since their inception. I was born in 1961 so that gives you an idea of my perspective on the team over time.

 

One of the Sabres better goalies hasn't been mentioned yet...Gerry Desjardins (65-29-18). The "other Dryden" Dave, also had some excellent years for the Sabres.

 

Barrasso matured into a better goaltender after he left Buffalo. Crozier (and Joe Daley) were both past their primes.

 

In my book of all-time greatest Sabres goaltenders, Miller is behind only Hasek and ahead of two very fine goaltenders, Bob Sauve and Don Edwards.

 

edit: And I agree that it's way too early to be suggesting that we end the Miller era in Buffalo in favor of Enroth. I'm sure there were short stretches when highly regarded prospects like Darren Puppa and Mika Norenen also looked good.

 

I believe that most knowledgeable hockey fans look at Miller's performance, statistics, and history (playoffs, Olympics, etc) and do not question whether he's one of the league's best. The Sabres attack is built on leaving Miller on an island while the defensemen join the rush (I saw recently that the Sabres have the highest percentage of points from the defensive corps of any team in the NHL).

 

Lindy Ruff leans very heavily on Ryan Miller…by encouraging his defensemen to join the attack and by playing Miller too many minutes.

 

I'm glad that we may finally have another goaltender that we can depend upon.

 

Good post, SJBF. I disgree on a couple goalies though. Crozier was far from past his prime, steadying the young talented team to the playoffs their 3rd season and NEARLY won us a Cup in our 5th season. Dryden was serviceable but was never confused with his brother. Barrasso showed many flashes of brilliance, winning the Calder AND Vezina in his 1st season. Bad Sabre teams were more to his decline than his performance. Miller, like Dryden, is steady and plays angles well. IMO, he's more a product of League hype than sensational and I -for 1- look forward to finding a goalie to replace him. Have we gotten past the second round with him? Hasek took a less talented team to the Finals with stellar & sterling performances. The likes of which I don't think we've ever seen from Miller, nor do I expect to.

[Ramius]

Good post, SJBF. I disgree on a couple goalies though. Crozier was far from past his prime, steadying the young talented team to the playoffs their 3rd season and NEARLY won us a Cup in our 5th season. Dryden was serviceable but was never confused with his brother. Barrasso showed many flashes of brilliance, winning the Calder AND Vezina in his 1st season. Bad Sabre teams were more to his decline than his performance. Miller, like Dryden, is steady and plays angles well. IMO, he's more a product of League hype than sensational and I -for 1- look forward to finding a goalie to replace him. Have we gotten past the second round with him? Hasek took a less talented team to the Finals with stellar & sterling performances. The likes of which I don't think we've ever seen from Miller, nor do I expect to.

 

Remind me who was in goal when we went to consecutive ECF's...

 

but you're right...Miller has rarely, if ever turned in sterling performances. He has ridden the back of Buffalo's "superior" defense for his career here. As for the league wide "hype" about him, you honestly think that 29 other teams in the NFL thinking he's a great goaltender is simply just "hype"? Everyone in the NHL is in on some great conspiracy just to make Ryan Miller seem like a great goaltender?

 

I swear to God, some of you don't even wait for paint to dry before eating the chips, you guys drink the Dutch Boy straight from the can.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Ramius

[KD in CA]

I swear to God, some of you don't even wait for paint to dry before eating the chips, you guys drink the Dutch Boy straight from the can.

 

 

But I think Consumer Reports ranked Sherwin Williams higher on flavor and overall drinkability.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

But I think Consumer Reports ranked Sherwin Williams higher on flavor and overall drinkability.

 

I thought that was JD Power...

[Chandler#81]

Remind me who was in goal when we went to consecutive ECF's...

 

but you're right...Miller has rarely, if ever turned in sterling performances. He has ridden the back of Buffalo's "superior" defense for his career here. As for the league wide "hype" about him, you honestly think that 29 other teams in the NFL thinking he's a great goaltender is simply just "hype"? Everyone in the NHL is in on some great conspiracy just to make Ryan Miller seem like a great goaltender?

 

I swear to God, some of you don't even wait for paint to dry before eating the chips, you guys drink the Dutch Boy straight from the can.

 

 

You're a piece of work, Ramius. Just not very good work.. Remind me again who let 2 soft goals in to start the 3rd period in Game 7 of the ECF. Unlike you, the 29 other teams in the League aren't blind. RM is good. Not Great. I think we can agree that this Sabre team probably won't do much in the playoffs this year (if we get there) -may not win one series. But if we had Hasek at his best with this team, we'd be thinking Cup.

 

Swear to any God you want. IMO, you're the one showing signs of lead paint poisoning.

[ieatcrayonz]

You're a piece of work, Ramius. Just not very good work.. Remind me again who let 2 soft goals in to start the 3rd period in Game 7 of the ECF. Unlike you, the 29 other teams in the League aren't blind. RM is good. Not Great. I think we can agree that this Sabre team probably won't do much in the playoffs this year (if we get there) -may not win one series. But if we had Hasek at his best with this team, we'd be thinking Cup.

 

Swear to any God you want. IMO, you're the one showing signs of lead paint poisoning.

Was that Rory Fitzpatrick? I forgot.

 

I only know of 1 sane person who would select Enroth over Miller in the playoffs. It would be the head coach of the opposing team.

[bbb]

Is our magic number now 1?

 

PS I don't mean Enroth's number, either.

[1B4IDie]

Is our magic number now 1?

 

PS I don't mean Enroth's number, either.

Carolina has 87 with 3 games so they max out at 93.

 

Carolina plays today against Detroit. If they get two points then our magic number is 1 point.

If they get 0 points then we clinch a playoff spot, because they then can only max out at 91 points and as you know we have 92.

If Carolina gets an OTL then they can max out at 92 BUT can only max out at 35 wins in regulation or OT if they win their last 2 games in regulation or OT. The Sabres already have 36 Wins in Regulation or OT (both teams have 5 shootout wins which do not count in playoff tie breakers.) So the Sabres would win a tiebreaker if both teams have 92 and then would clinch a playoff spot.

 

So basically the next time Carolina loses in regulation or the Sabres get 1 point the Sabres clinch a playoff spot whichever comes first.

 

So yeah the Sabres magic number is 1.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Why So Serious?

[Taro T]

Good post, SJBF. I disgree on a couple goalies though. Crozier was far from past his prime, steadying the young talented team to the playoffs their 3rd season and NEARLY won us a Cup in our 5th season. Dryden was serviceable but was never confused with his brother. Barrasso showed many flashes of brilliance, winning the Calder AND Vezina in his 1st season. Bad Sabre teams were more to his decline than his performance. Miller, like Dryden, is steady and plays angles well. IMO, he's more a product of League hype than sensational and I -for 1- look forward to finding a goalie to replace him. Have we gotten past the second round with him? Hasek took a less talented team to the Finals with stellar & sterling performances. The likes of which I don't think we've ever seen from Miller, nor do I expect to.

Crozier had serious health issues during his Sabres' tenure. He DIDN'T lead the team to the playoffs in '73 - he split that year w/ Dryden (because of his stomach problems) and Dryden got the 1st 2 starts in the playoffs.

 

In '75, again due to health issues, he was the effectively the backup behind Bromley and then Desi. He came in in relief for Desi in the 1st game against Moe-ray-all and started the next 2 until he got yanked in game 3. He played games 3 & 6 in the Finals.

 

When HEALTHY, even at his age, he was better than Dryden, Bromley, Daley, Desi, etc. but he wasn't healthy often enough to say he 'led' the team. They were better w/ him in the net than the others, but he just simply wasn't able to be there often enough.

 

Barrasso looked GREAT his 1st 2 years in Buffalo. And then people figured out that the 5 hole was ALWAYS open, and he didn't look nearly as good in Buffalo ever again. (By the time he was traded, he was giving up over 4 gpg.) He bore down while in Pittsburgh after his daughter got sick, but even then the success he had in Pittsburgh was due to Lemieux & crew far more than it was due to him.

 

You already know the answer to your 2nd round question, so I won't bother w/ that one.

 

And you don't expect Miller to be better than Hasek? No !@#$ing **** Sherlock. Dom was (arguably) the best goalie ever. If the criticism is that he isn't better than Dom, I can't argue w/ that. But I wouldn't say anybody else was better than him either.

[stony]

You're a piece of work, Ramius. Just not very good work.. Remind me again who let 2 soft goals in to start the 3rd period in Game 7 of the ECF. Unlike you, the 29 other teams in the League aren't blind. RM is good. Not Great. I think we can agree that this Sabre team probably won't do much in the playoffs this year (if we get there) -may not win one series. But if we had Hasek at his best with this team, we'd be thinking Cup.

 

Swear to any God you want. IMO, you're the one showing signs of lead paint poisoning.

 

You've been wrong in the Vezina discussion earlier in the thread and by omitting Miller's play in two ECF series. I'm sure they're selective oversights on your part, but when doing so, don't come back with the "Miller let's in soft goals" argument (especially when using Game 7 vs. Carolina when we had a JV defense in front of him as an instance of such play). Also, comparing Hasek's teams to now is just ludicrous. Different game, even with the officiating tightening things up the past few seasons.

[bbb]

Carolina has 87 with 3 games so they max out at 93.

 

Carolina plays today against Detroit. If they get two points then our magic number is 1 point.

If they get 0 points then we clinch a playoff spot, because they then can only max out at 91 points and as you know we have 92.

If Carolina gets an OTL then they can max out at 92 BUT can only max out at 35 wins in regulation or OT if they win their last 2 games in regulation or OT. The Sabres already have 36 Wins in Regulation or OT (both teams have 5 shootout wins which do not count in playoff tie breakers.) So the Sabres would win a tiebreaker if both teams have 92 and then would clinch a playoff spot.

 

So basically the next time Carolina loses in regulation or the Sabres get 1 point the Sabres clinch a playoff spot whichever comes first.

 

So yeah the Sabres magic number is 1.

 

LOL - I'm reading all that and thinking doesn't it mean the magic number is one right now?!?..........Thanks for clarifying, though! This is sweet!

[Ramius]

You're a piece of work, Ramius. Just not very good work.. Remind me again who let 2 soft goals in to start the 3rd period in Game 7 of the ECF. Unlike you, the 29 other teams in the League aren't blind. RM is good. Not Great. I think we can agree that this Sabre team probably won't do much in the playoffs this year (if we get there) -may not win one series. But if we had Hasek at his best with this team, we'd be thinking Cup.

 

Swear to any God you want. IMO, you're the one showing signs of lead paint poisoning.

 

Let's see, the Sabres trotted out their #3,5,7,8,9,10 defensemen as the starting 6 in that game, and its Miller's fault? Go back and watch the goals, and you'll find Rory Fitzpatrick just standing around.

 

Miller is a great goalie and it viewed as one by the rest of the league. He's easily top 5.

 

Any other lies you'd like to trot out after your "the vezina is determined by GAA" and "Miller has never led the sabres past the second round" gems?

 

Why don't you at least attempt to save face and come up with the lame excuse that you were just kidding or just trolling? I'll give you that out right now before you further embarrass yourself.

[KD in CA]

You're a piece of work, Ramius. Just not very good work.. Remind me again who let 2 soft goals in to start the 3rd period in Game 7 of the ECF.

Yeah, two goals where the Sabres defense allowed a Canes player a wide open shot from less than five feet in front of the net.

 

Thurman Thomas sucked in SB 25 too.