LA Takes a big step towards getting the NFL back

[Typical TBD Guy]

Buffalo's population will continue to decline. Along with the surrounding regions (i.e. Rochester, N.F., as well as the rural areas).

I respect that opinion because quite frankly, to date, the Buffalo-Niagara region was fortunate to have owners step in and save the Sabres.

 

But this isn't a 190 million dollar hockey team in the 4th rated sport in North America were speaking on here.

The NFL is a very serious business, and it's bottom line shows it.

The Buffalo Bills won't be here long after Mr. Wilson passes, that much I am sure of. Unless an investment can be made long term not only to the enhancement of team facilities, but to the fan base itself.

 

I am sorry, but the numbers don't lie here. The exodus continues out of this region, and shows no signs of stabilizing. Some in the business community have privately stated that the region could drop below 1 million in population by 2025. That's a mere 14 years away. That would make Buffalo the lowest local fan base in the league by far.

Not a good indicator for the future of a professional football team to remain viable market wise in the NFL while there are a multitude of other locations with larger markets.

A domed stadium would not only stave this off for a bit, but would also generate interest in development and hopefully some growth in the region.

 

You really have to look at the strategic plan, not just the tactical one when approaching a situation such as this.

 

How do you explain the financial viability of the small-market Packers or Saints?

 

What markets outside of LA and Toronto would the Bills be in realistic danger of moving to?

 

What inside info do you have that no one else here has regarding the interest of Pegula, Golisano, Rich, Jacobs, etc... in keeping the Bills in Buffalo? Keep in mind that we only need a majority owner to purchase 30% (~$200 million...the price of the Sabres) of the total worth of the franchise.

[Mr. WEO]

How do you explain the financial viability of the small-market Packers or Saints?

 

What markets outside of LA and Toronto would the Bills be in realistic danger of moving to?

 

What inside info do you have that no one else here has regarding the interest of Pegula, Golisano, Rich, Jacobs, etc... in keeping the Bills in Buffalo? Keep in mind that we only need a majority owner to purchase 30% (~$200 million...the price of the Sabres) of the total worth of the franchise.

And who buys the other 70%?

[Bills(70)]

How do you explain the financial viability of the small-market Packers or Saints?

 

What markets outside of LA and Toronto would the Bills be in realistic danger of moving to?

 

What inside info do you have that no one else here has regarding the interest of Pegula, Golisano, Rich, Jacobs, etc... in keeping the Bills in Buffalo? Keep in mind that we only need a majority owner to purchase 30% (~$200 million...the price of the Sabres) of the total worth of the franchise.

The Saints are not a small market team, not by far. They deliver a fan base that stretches farther north than Baton Rouge (where a good portion of my family lives).

The Packers are a very fortunate team indeed. And you are absolutely correct in pointing them out. However, they have the luxury of a state tax base (not just a city) behind them. The Packers are the model I wanted to the Bills to mimick.

They are publicly owned, and the fan base there is much larger than just Green Bay alone.

The Packers are consistantly one of the top 10 teams in terms of popularity among NFL franchises. Of course, the storied history and past has much to do with this, but it's also due, in part, to the large contingent of fans that reside outside of Wisconsin itself.

These fans were never from Wisconsin either, something the Buffalo Bills have never been able to generate in their history.

 

Many variables here, but take a look for yourself.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers

 

Once again, comparing the Packers to the Bills is apples to oranges. Not even in the same catagory.

 

As for your question on what markets are potentials outside of Toronto and LA, let me start by saying the Buffalo Bills won't be going to LA. That dog don't hunt.

Toronto is already being groomed for the possibility. This stint of games up in Toronto (who by the way, already have a domed stadium, albiet, a subpar one for what would be needed here) isn't a market scheme to get people to come to Bills games from Toronto. It's an acclaimation period, giving the fan base of Toronto time to "grow", if you will, into NFL fanatical fans.

And having their own NFL team in Toronto (the first one outside of the US) is a bonus for another large Canadian city, Vancouver.

With both of these cities vast populations, it makes sense that the NFL would target one of them, if not both of them, for future business growth. Starting with Toronto.

 

The other cities with great potential are Salt Lake City, Utah and Portland, Oregon.

Or, you could look to cities such as Las Vegas, Nevada and San Antonia or Austin, Texas.

As these cities populations continue to grow or rebound from the downturn, it is very plausible to see an NFL team finding success in anyone of those markets. They already have or are approaching the population numbers that would be needed to run a successful, privately owned team.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Bills(70)

[dogbyte]

this absolutely sickens me. the thought of kraft even being able to mention (whether it happens or not,) the idea of buffalo or Minnesota relocating is criminal.

 

the patriots were nothing, nobody, insignificant... for years. by cheating, they won 3 super bowls in 4 years, were severely punished by the league, and have not won jack since then. their team is on the downside now, their defense is terrible. pioli left them for kc, and they haven't brought in equal talent since his departure. in 2013, when this is supposed to happen, the pats will be right back where they belong - to being the patsies. a cupcake win on everyones schedule. belicheck will have left town, Brady will have retired to pursue a political career.

 

and you're gonna tell me that the owner of THAT team wants to move the legendary MINNESOTA VIKINGS?!?!?!?!

 

all i can say, is bills nation better fight just as hard to keep the vikings in Minnesota as we do to keep the bills in buffalo. would truly be a monumental loss for the league to lose a fan base that rabid.

 

 

Sorry but NE still has a great owner. If and when Tom Brady and BB leave, they will have a plan to stay completive.

Kraft never mention any team that, would be the one to go to LA. The Media picked the teams. The NE team has sold out every game since 1994. The have been to 5 SB since then winning 3. But you are right they only went 14-2 and beat all the teams in the playoffs except KC at least once. Defiantly on they way down. Since Pioli left their last 2 drafts have been impressive. Compare that to what we have done.

 

LA lost 2 teams because the Colosseum is a piece of crap in a bad part of town

The Rams moved to St Louis because that where the owner's widow wanted to go.

They gave here a new stadium, concessions, parking and 50 million fund to do it.

St Louis now is wishing that they never did the deal. They are losing tons of money on the deal!

Edited February 3, 2011 by dogbyte

[BuffaloBill]

We'll move to Toronto before we move to Los Angeles, and for that I am not too worried, other then having to get in to Canada. I don't have a red-haired mullet, don't really like Canadian beers, and can enunciate all of the letters in the alphabet.

 

You don't like Canadian beer

[Chef Jim]

You don't like Canadian beer

 

I agree. There's too much other good stuff out there.

[Gordio]

The Saints are not a small market team, not by far. They deliver a fan base that stretches farther north than Baton Rouge (where a good portion of my family lives).The Packers are a very fortunate team indeed. And you are absolutely correct in pointing them out. However, they have the luxury of a state tax base (not just a city) behind them. The Packers are the model I wanted to the Bills to mimick.

They are publicly owned, and the fan base there is much larger than just Green Bay alone.

The Packers are consistantly one of the top 10 teams in terms of popularity among NFL franchises. Of course, the storied history and past has much to do with this, but it's also due, in part, to the large contingent of fans that reside outside of Wisconsin itself.

These fans were never from Wisconsin either, something the Buffalo Bills have never been able to generate in their history.

 

Many variables here, but take a look for yourself.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers

 

Once again, comparing the Packers to the Bills is apples to oranges. Not even in the same catagory.

 

As for your question on what markets are potentials outside of Toronto and LA, let me start by saying the Buffalo Bills won't be going to LA. That dog don't hunt.

Toronto is already being groomed for the possibility. This stint of games up in Toronto (who by the way, already have a domed stadium, albiet, a subpar one for what would be needed here) isn't a market scheme to get people to come to Bills games from Toronto. It's an acclaimation period, giving the fan base of Toronto time to "grow", if you will, into NFL fanatical fans.

And having their own NFL team in Toronto (the first one outside of the US) is a bonus for another large Canadian city, Vancouver.

With both of these cities vast populations, it makes sense that the NFL would target one of them, if not both of them, for future business growth. Starting with Toronto.

 

The other cities with great potential are Salt Lake City, Utah and Portland, Oregon.

Or, you could look to cities such as Las Vegas, Nevada and San Antonia or Austin, Texas.

As these cities populations continue to grow or rebound from the downturn, it is very plausible to see an NFL team finding success in anyone of those markets. They already have or are approaching the population numbers that would be needed to run a successful, privately owned team.

 

 

You could say the same thing about the bills franchise & their fan base. Their base stretches from WNY to Rochester/Syracuse/Norther Erie/Southern Ontario/Toronto. The Bills may or may not move once Wilson passes but it is not as simple & such a done deal as you make it out to be. I got a feeling your just trying to get everybody worked up. Do everybody a favor & go route for the Dolphins jerkoff.

[mattsox]

LA had two teams, the Rams and the Raiders. They both moved. Why would it work now? It won't.

 

Yep. Feels like another Episode of not this **** Again...

[Mr. WEO]

Prevailing North American weather patterns have always been driven by the Jet Stream as well as the Arctic Trade Winds. Both of which flow in a west to east pattern.

Remind me again which side of Lake Michigan Chicago sits on?

A majority of Chicago's winter weather comes across Nebraska/N. and S. Dakota/Iowa/Minny and the Kansas Corridor.

I don't know about you, but I don't see a whole lot of great bodies of water in those areas.

This is not to say Chicago doesn't get it's fair share of snow. It does.

But it doesn't compare to Buffalo, and once again, this leads us into a "Strategic" view of the Bills survival in the region, not just a "Tactical" one.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/askjack/2003-10-01-snowiest-cities_x.htm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake-effect_snow

The Bills play very few games in the snow. 1.7 billion dollars for a domed stadium would make it the most expensive stadium ever conceived. Unless it will be plated in gold or copper, there is no way such a facility would need to cost this much. The "engineering" of the Carrier dome has withstood far more snow than any stadium on any side of Buffalo would see---and that building is harly the 8th wonder of the world.

[stony]

The Saints are not a small market team, not by far. They deliver a fan base that stretches farther north than Baton Rouge (where a good portion of my family lives).

The Packers are a very fortunate team indeed. And you are absolutely correct in pointing them out. However, they have the luxury of a state tax base (not just a city) behind them. The Packers are the model I wanted to the Bills to mimick.

They are publicly owned, and the fan base there is much larger than just Green Bay alone.

The Packers are consistantly one of the top 10 teams in terms of popularity among NFL franchises. Of course, the storied history and past has much to do with this, but it's also due, in part, to the large contingent of fans that reside outside of Wisconsin itself.

These fans were never from Wisconsin either, something the Buffalo Bills have never been able to generate in their history.

 

Many variables here, but take a look for yourself.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers

 

Once again, comparing the Packers to the Bills is apples to oranges. Not even in the same catagory.

 

As for your question on what markets are potentials outside of Toronto and LA, let me start by saying the Buffalo Bills won't be going to LA. That dog don't hunt.

Toronto is already being groomed for the possibility. This stint of games up in Toronto (who by the way, already have a domed stadium, albiet, a subpar one for what would be needed here) isn't a market scheme to get people to come to Bills games from Toronto. It's an acclaimation period, giving the fan base of Toronto time to "grow", if you will, into NFL fanatical fans.

And having their own NFL team in Toronto (the first one outside of the US) is a bonus for another large Canadian city, Vancouver.

With both of these cities vast populations, it makes sense that the NFL would target one of them, if not both of them, for future business growth. Starting with Toronto.

 

The other cities with great potential are Salt Lake City, Utah and Portland, Oregon.

Or, you could look to cities such as Las Vegas, Nevada and San Antonia or Austin, Texas.

As these cities populations continue to grow or rebound from the downturn, it is very plausible to see an NFL team finding success in anyone of those markets. They already have or are approaching the population numbers that would be needed to run a successful, privately owned team.

 

I won't argue with your viewpoints regarding the structural integrity needed to have a domed stadium here in WNY because I'm not familiar with what it would need. 1.7bill is still too high IMO.

 

NOLA is indeed a small market in NFL terms, however. The mass exodus that redistributed the population across the South has brought about this moniker. Furthermore, to assert that it isn't a small market because it pulls from places like Baton Rouge and "farther north" is really the same situation as the Bills. Really the debate with the Saints comes down to their recent success. Southern Ontario's population is expected to grow by 34% by 2036, a situation that only proves to be a valuable asset IF the Bills are able to stay in Buffalo. http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy/demographics/projections/

 

I agree with the cities you listed as possible places. But they still don't have stadiums. Also Toronto, aside from the Blue Jays success in the early 90s has proven to be a colossal failure in fielding competitive American pro sports teams. For a city that touts it's bottomless wealth and big-market status, they are unable/unwilling to keep up with their AL East brethren in baseball. As far as the Raptors, no marquee FAs want to go to TO. Sound familiar? Their current roster is heavily laden w/ international talent. Every American born star has left the team, Bosh being the most recent example. The Leafs and Toronto FC are the most fervently supported clubs.

[Chef Jim]

Yep. Feels like another Episode of not this **** Again...

 

The Rams moved because they had an a-hole owner. They had plenty of support. The Raiders moved because they had a whacked out owner and were never LA's teamm to begin with. It just felt as if we were borrowing them form Oakland. And people knew they were there temporarily. LA could support a team, no problem. They have the population, the money, the weather, the spotlight. They just need it marketed properly. The Raiders where never marketed as right.

[Bills(70)]

I won't argue with your viewpoints regarding the structural integrity needed to have a domed stadium here in WNY because I'm not familiar with what it would need. 1.7bill is still too high IMO.

 

NOLA is indeed a small market in NFL terms, however. The mass exodus that redistributed the population across the South has brought about this moniker. Furthermore, to assert that it isn't a small market because it pulls from places like Baton Rouge and "farther north" is really the same situation as the Bills. Really the debate with the Saints comes down to their recent success. Southern Ontario's population is expected to grow by 34% by 2036, a situation that only proves to be a valuable asset IF the Bills are able to stay in Buffalo. http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy/demographics/projections/

 

I agree with the cities you listed as possible places. But they still don't have stadiums. Also Toronto, aside from the Blue Jays success in the early 90s has proven to be a colossal failure in fielding competitive American pro sports teams. For a city that touts it's bottomless wealth and big-market status, they are unable/unwilling to keep up with their AL East brethren in baseball. As far as the Raptors, no marquee FAs want to go to TO. Sound familiar? Their current roster is heavily laden w/ international talent. Every American born star has left the team, Bosh being the most recent example. The Leafs and Toronto FC are the most fervently supported clubs.

 

I see your POV.

The indication based on the Saints is solidified in the State population numbers for LA. That's the point I was attempting to get across there.

Also, on Toronto, I tend to agree with you, I feel the Canadian fan base isn't as nearly interested as people preceive, but it did not stop the organization from their course of actions with regards to promoting the sport within Toronto itself.

 

As for my statement on ownership.

I just watched the press conference with Golisano and the sale of the Sabres.

I stand corrected, to a point.

Mr. Golisano has no current interest in owning the Bills, he did however, keep the window open with regards to the future given the atmosphere surrounding the team and any attempt to relocate the team.

I must stress this however, Mr. Golisano is a treasure here in WNY. He is loyal to the region in so far as attempting to maintain it's current status as an area worthy of keeping the sports franchises in WNY. That is the first time I've heard any of this.

I own my own small renewable/alternative energy company that does utility scale projects from time to time.

I have spoken with some business leaders in the region and none of us, not one, had any idea he would be interested in retaining the Bills here in Buffalo.

 

This is ground breaking news, and should put Bills fans at some ease on the current situation with the organization.

It most also be pointed out that Mr. Golisano would need a significant partner with vast financial resources to secure such a deal, if the possible sale of the Bills can be achieved.

 

What does this all mean then?

 

In affect, it means that there are individuals with large capital resources at their disposal, that would be interested in partnering with Mr. Golisano to purchase the Bills, if it becomes necessary to prevent their depature from the region.

That is fantastic news.

 

Every Western New Yorker should forego any anger they have about the Sabres in these past 7 years and extend a hearty thank you to Mr. Golisano for what he has done and what he just offered in that press conference.

[Fan in San Diego]

It's going to be the Chargers. I'm almost 100% sure. Here's how I know:

 

I live in Southern California. A good friend of mine's brother works for AEG (company that owns LA Live, the Staples Center and the new stadium rights to a downtown stadium next to Staples - the one that Farmers just agreed to provide the naming rights to). He has been telling us for a year or so that the Chargers are moving to LA. He also told us about AEG's interest in buying a percentage of the Chargers long before it was reported in the press (it's still not done, but in the works, in fact Spanos has hired Goldman Sachs to sell his miniority share about 36% - his kids own 60%). AEG also (and this isn't from my contact, but from knowledge of LA politics) has a lot of "influence" with the LA City Council. AEG is going to be the group that gets the team. And right now, the focus is 100% on San Diego. The fan base is close (2 hours from SD with a lot of Chargers fans in Northern SD County and OC/LA area as well). Most importantly, SD is not going to get a new publically financed stadium and from February 1 and April 30 of every year from now through 2020, the Chargers can get out of their lease by simply writing a check to the city of San Diego — this year, the amount is about $26 million, and it decreases annually.

 

Our Bills are safe from any LA move. The focus is on the Chargers. I'll post more info if I get it (I may be seeing this friend's brother this weekend on a ski trip).

 

The CCDC which controls and builds the San Diego downtown area has a plan together to build a stadium right beside Petco Park with funds from Spanos and the State of Cal. redevelopment funds. Unless Spanos is lying to San Diego, they are staying San Diego. Ask your friend about that.

[stony]

I see your POV.

The indication based on the Saints is solidified in the State population numbers for LA. That's the point I was attempting to get across there.

Also, on Toronto, I tend to agree with you, I feel the Canadian fan base isn't as nearly interested as people preceive, but it did not stop the organization from their course of actions with regards to promoting the sport within Toronto itself.

 

As for my statement on ownership.

I just watched the press conference with Golisano and the sale of the Sabres.

I stand corrected, to a point.

Mr. Golisano has no current interest in owning the Bills, he did however, keep the window open with regards to the future given the atmosphere surrounding the team and any attempt to relocate the team.

I must stress this however, Mr. Golisano is a treasure here in WNY. He is loyal to the region in so far as attempting to maintain it's current status as an area worthy of keeping the sports franchises in WNY. That is the first time I've heard any of this.

I own my own small renewable/alternative energy company that does utility scale projects from time to time.

I have spoken with some business leaders in the region and none of us, not one, had any idea he would be interested in retaining the Bills here in Buffalo.

 

This is ground breaking news, and should put Bills fans at some ease on the current situation with the organization.

It most also be pointed out that Mr. Golisano would need a significant partner with vast financial resources to secure such a deal, if the possible sale of the Bills can be achieved.

 

What does this all mean then?

 

In affect, it means that there are individuals with large capital resources at their disposal, that would be interested in partnering with Mr. Golisano to purchase the Bills, if it becomes necessary to prevent their depature from the region.

That is fantastic news.

 

Every Western New Yorker should forego any anger they have about the Sabres in these past 7 years and extend a hearty thank you to Mr. Golisano for what he has done and what he just offered in that press conference.

 

 

I agree w/ everything you say about Golisano. He danced around the roster questions a bit too much, but no harm, no foul. He does deserve a huge pat on the back.

[Fan in San Diego]

Hollywood Park is nowhere near downtown or The Staples Center where the stadium is being planned. I live in LA. The stadium is being planned right in downtown Los Angeles. Two blocks from where all the skyscrapers start.

 

I lived in Alhambra and Alta Dena for many years. I hate LA for starters, it is all a bung hole to me but by my standards the two are close, 11 miles apart of pure concrete dung crap. Here are the directions from google

 

1111 S Figueroa St

Los Angeles, CA 90015

 

1. Head southwest on S Figueroa St toward W 11th St

 

 

0.8 mi

2. Turn right at W Washington Blvd

 

 

0.4 mi

3. Turn right to merge onto I-110 S

 

 

7.3 mi

4. Take exit 14A to merge onto I-105 W toward Lax Airport

 

 

3.9 mi

5. Take exit 3 for Prairie Ave

 

 

0.6 mi

6. Turn left at S Prairie Ave

Destination will be on the right

 

 

 

1.2 mi

 

1050 S Prairie Ave

Inglewood, CA 90301

 

Arriving at Hollywood Park. That's close by my standards because I drive 100's of miles in a day.

[BuffaloFan68]

I heard that the main reason Tom Golisano wanted to sell the Sabres was so that he could work with a group to buy the Bills when they become available. So many different rumors out there.

[Van_phelaN1]

LA will not be the destination.

In case you haven't noticed, Toronto is being groomed.

(It baffles me how so many people are in denial over this).

 

Yes, in point of fact, the area will need a Domed Stadium. Comparing NYC to Buffalo is oranges to apples. The weather is as different as night and day. One sits by frozen fresh water, the other by moderate temp ocean.

You cannot seriously compare the 2 when it comes to the need of a domed stadium or not.

For this region, on the "Western" side of the Appalachian Mountains with weather 7 months out of the year flowing down from the arctic via Western Canada and the Great Plains of the US, then crossing the large bodies of fresh water, a domed stadium is the only way you are going to get a servicable 365 days worth of business out of a facility of this nature.

 

And don't kid yourself, Football is a business, first and foremost, just like any other, and as such, positive cash flow is the only way to mark success. Especially for a constantly declining area such as WNY.

 

I don't know if a new stadium needs to be addressed directly at the selling of the team, but you are right. A domed stadium has to be in the plans of any ownership group that intends to keep the team in Buffalo and wants to maximize the usefulness/profit of said stadium.

 

I heard that the main reason Tom Golisano wanted to sell the Sabres was so that he could work with a group to buy the Bills when they become available. So many different rumors out there.

 

That doesn't sound like it would be too credible but if I owned an NHL franchise and I had a shot at being a part-owner of an NFL franchise, I wouldn't think twice about making the jump. I love hockey and all but smart business is smart business.

[yungmack]

You don't like Canadian beer

It's all about the cheese...