Top 10 draft prospects

[VirginiaMike]

Just curious - what's the source for this rating?

And if accurate, kinda sad that one of the Bill's biggest needs - OLB - doesn't even crack the top 10.

 

Great point -- the Bill sneed D-Line for sure, but our LB's, especially our OLB's are pretty bad. We need a major upgrade there -- a real playmaker.

[mob16151]

Great point -- the Bill sneed D-Line for sure, but our LB's, especially our OLB's are pretty bad. We need a major upgrade there -- a real playmaker.

 

Don't sleep on a guy like Akeem Ayers if he declares.

[stony]

Bowers sure looks like an OLB to me...

 

Really? or is the "..." sarcasm?

 

I think his ability to cover would make Chris Kelsay look like Revis. He's a big guy, either 4-3 or 3-4 lineman all the way.

 

Don't sleep on a guy like Akeem Ayers if he declares.

 

Yes, he's a stud and would instantly step in and start.

[aristocrat]

bowers looks like a beast and he looks like a nice olb in the nfl. he's listed at 280 but thats prob about 10 pounds inflated. ayers would look nice on the bills as well but he looks to fall past 10

[John from Riverside]

I think the bills should forget about the 3-4 and go to back to the 4-3 cover 2

 

My reasons

 

- I think that Bowers is a legit playmaking DE....there is a strong possibility he will be there when we pick....and he is a perfect fit for a 4-3 defense.

 

- My thinking also centers around our STUD undersized Kevin Williams.....he flat out is undersized in the 3-4 even though he does make plays.....in the 4-3 he doesn't have to take on double teams and would be even better

 

- My thinking also centers around Torrel Troup.....who looks to me like he is agile enough to be a DT in a 4-3 defense and could be an absolute beast against the run in that defense.....then if the bills decide they wont to go with a 3-4 look at times to confuse offenses he can play the true nose.

 

- Alex Carrington is also a extremely raw but absolute Beast

 

We still need the correct type of linebackers to play this scheme.....Im not sure Poz is the answer...we know Maybin is NOT the answer....and Im not thrilled with any of the others to be last line of defense if a runner gets past the 4 down linemen....

 

Oh yeah and this would put Byrd back into the defense that he excelled at....he was listed a PERFECT cover two safety coming out of the draft and he ended up being just that.....

 

DL Bowers, Troupe, Williams, Carrington

LB's....still to be named but easier to find.....that LB from the jets is looking AWFUL good....how about the OLB from the Chiefs?

 

Take Bowers with the first pick and best available RT with the 2nd.....then go heavy on linebackers

[1B4IDie]

I think the bills should forget about the 3-4 and go to back to the 4-3 cover 2

 

My reasons

 

- I think that Bowers is a legit playmaking DE....there is a strong possibility he will be there when we pick....and he is a perfect fit for a 4-3 defense.

 

- My thinking also centers around our STUD undersized Kevin Williams.....he flat out is undersized in the 3-4 even though he does make plays.....in the 4-3 he doesn't have to take on double teams and would be even better

 

- My thinking also centers around Torrel Troup.....who looks to me like he is agile enough to be a DT in a 4-3 defense and could be an absolute beast against the run in that defense.....then if the bills decide they wont to go with a 3-4 look at times to confuse offenses he can play the true nose.

 

- Alex Carrington is also a extremely raw but absolute Beast

 

We still need the correct type of linebackers to play this scheme.....Im not sure Poz is the answer...we know Maybin is NOT the answer....and Im not thrilled with any of the others to be last line of defense if a runner gets past the 4 down linemen....

 

Oh yeah and this would put Byrd back into the defense that he excelled at....he was listed a PERFECT cover two safety coming out of the draft and he ended up being just that.....

 

DL Bowers, Troupe, Williams, Carrington

LB's....still to be named but easier to find.....that LB from the jets is looking AWFUL good....how about the OLB from the Chiefs?

 

Take Bowers with the first pick and best available RT with the 2nd.....then go heavy on linebackers

 

If this wasn't so long I would make the first part my signature, this 3-4 strategy is just silly for so many reasons.

Bowers could beef up a little to play 3-4 but it would be a waste as I posted earlier, and I also think putting Kyle at NT is a waste too.

I don't know about the Cover 2, but a base 4-3 makes sense.

 

BTW that LB from the Jets, I think you're referring to is David Harris who was drafted #47 in 2007. The Bills traded up their 2007 #43 in order to draft Poz.

I personally was hoping we would take Harris that year.

I hope we end up getting him 3 years later.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

I'm no scout, but I <3 Marcell Dareus.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The only problem I can think of is: What kind of system to they play in? Is Bowers a 3-4 DE or a OLB. Call me shell shocked from Maybin, but if that is the case, I'd be scared to waste a top 5-10 pick on someone who has to learn a new system and position again. Now, I could see if one of these DT's would be a DE as that transition appears to be easier.

I think the bigger question is what kind of system will we have. I am not sure what we will have next year.... will they try 3-4 again or stick to the 4-3? That right there kinda hinders any defense prospect predictions.

The only problem I have with that is, what if they have a mix bag of players. They will have like half the players for the 4-3 then half the players for the 3-4. I think they need to pick a scheme and get the players that fit it. Right now, we have have like 75% for 4-3 (Kyle williams, stroud, kelsey, Johnson, Poz etc) and 25% for the 3-4 (Andre Davis, Dwan Edwards, Troup etc). Then on top of it, a lot of those players suck and need to be replaced anyway.

 

Picking the best defense for this team is going to put players in the spots they don't really belong either way.

 

People are a bit hung up on scheme. Many people have been voicing this same concern and I've been reading these same posts repeatedly from many different posters, over the last several weeks. The scheme theme has become a drumbeat. A drumbeat of questionable thinking.

 

One thing that is inarguable is that if you have talented players, you will have a good defense. Last year the majority of posters were clamoring for a switch to the 3-4. After stumbling out of the gate this year, many posters were clamoring for a switch back to the 4-3.

 

People who were proponents for a 3-4 and were expecting quick results pointed to the success Green Bay and Denver had last season in successfully transitioning to the 3-4 but they overlook the fact that those teams were coached by two of the foremost 3-4 gurus…Dom Capers in Green Bay and Mike Nolan in Denver. Green Bay also had good players to run the system. Denver did not and when Nolan left at season's end, their defense dropped off dramatically. I'll give you that Clay Matthews and BJ Raji are great fits for the 3-4 but does anyone really think they'd be lesser players in a 4-3? Raji played all of last year at defensive end. Regardless of 3-4 or 4-3, Matthews would be rushing the QB on passing downs. Again, I think it's less about scheme and more about talent.

 

Furthermore, virtually every team in the league plays both schemes. If you watch games carefully you'll see this. The Bills have been playing more 4-3 lately but that has simply been a matter of Chris Kelsay either standing up or putting his hand on the ground. Because of this, the Bills have nice scheme flexibility. Moreover, NFL defenses are in a nickel or dime package more than 50% of snaps, making the distinction between schemes even less important.

 

Older football fans will remember Bill Arnsparger, the great defensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins' "No-Name Defense" and later, the "Killer Bees" defense. He had a lot of players (Kim Bokamper, AJ Duhe, Bob Matheson, and even tackle Bob Baumhower) who defied classification as far as position was concerned. They were all hybrid players. Arnsparger's defense was the forerunner to Belichik's collection of Mike Vrabel, Tedy Bruschi, Roosevelt Colvin and Willie McGinest.

 

Belichick has always been big into scheme flexibility. His defense sucks now, not because of the scheme (same one they've been running for years), but because he has not been able to (despite a gazillion draft picks) replace the talented players he once had.

 

Does anyone think that Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis wouldn't be excellent 3-4 rushbackers? Those guys could play in any scheme. They're very similar to Elvis Dumervil who's a 3-4 linebacker.

 

I remember when Miami released Matt Roth last year. The Bills played a 4-3 and Roth was viewed as more of a 3-4 player. The Bills possibly passed on him because of this. They missed an opportunity to get a good player who would have fit perfectly into our defense this year. If a guy's a good player, pick him up and figure out how to use him.

 

Again, my point is that scheme is overrated. In the upcoming draft, the Bills should select the best players and figure out a scheme to showcase those players' talents. Scheme suitability should only be a consideration in a tie-breaker situation when you have two players evenly rated.

 

Bottom line, we're deficient in defensive talent and that's why we're not a good defense. It has little to do with scheme, IMO.

 

As Bob in STL said:

 

I can't say I know much about the DL's in the list but I wish they would just pick the best players and run the defense that fits them instead of insisting on a scheme first and then backfilling with players.

[John from Riverside]

Also....Bowers has been a good player for more then a year......to me that is where the Maybin comparison's stop....and he has a legit NFL body without "bulking up"

 

That Maybin pick set us back so bad......somebody should have been fired for that alone.

[1B4IDie]

Also....Bowers has been a good player for more then a year......to me that is where the Maybin comparison's stop....and he has a legit NFL body without "bulking up"

 

That Maybin pick set us back so bad......somebody should have been fired for that alone.

 

Maybin had all the classic signs of a bust, I couldn't believe it when the Bills took him.

Undersized, young, inexperienced, ran really fast at the combine. He even had Lavar Arrington as his mentor, LaVar is arguably a bust for his draft position.

 

NO DEFENSIVE LINE PLAYERS RANKED HIGH IN THE 2011 DRAFT SHOULD BE COMPARED TO MAYBIN.

 

The only one that could maybe be compared is Robert Quinn, for his 1 year wonder career, however there was mitigating circumstances because he was suspended or he would have has another year.

Not to mention Robert Quinn has NFL size, and if you locked Maybin in a cage with Quinn and only 1 person was allowed out, Quinn would be the last man standing with very little effort.

 

So can we just drop the Maybin comparisons. He was not an NFL quality player, it was clear to everyone except the Bills and Todd McShay lets move in this is mostly a new regime.

[bisonbrigade]

Draft a pass rusher to sack the shoot out of Brady. Dont care about scheme, only results. Our number one pick should be a pass rushing stud for the next five years.

[1B4IDie]

 

Does anyone think that Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis wouldn't be excellent 3-4 rushbackers? Those guys could play in any scheme. They're very similar to Elvis Dumervil who's a 3-4 linebacker.

 

 

The guys you're quoting are freaks, they don't grow on trees. There aren't 32 in the world. Dwight Freeney is a freak he was drafted #11 for a reason and Robert Mathis was a DI-AA or whatever they call it now star that has Freeney on the other side to make him better, Elvis is just amazing for his height.

 

Its not as simple as just drafting the best defensive player.

 

When you draft a player its like drafting a clump of clay.

Some are more molded then others.

 

A guy you draft to mold into a NT isn't the same guy you draft as DE.

 

And the guy you draft with a top 10 pick you want to be more molded for the NFL.

 

By your opinion Bowers would be the guy you want he is the most versatile he would be a Jack or Rush Backer in a 3-4, or DE in a 4-3.

 

Fairley or Dareus aren't as versatile they're going to have they're hand down 100% of the time and the type of Defensive System you plan on running is going to effect your draft position. A 3-4 DE is traditionally a Big Bodied run stuffer. You don't want to waste a top 10 pick on a guy with that skill set; a space-eater. A 10 top draft pick is better spent trying to find a lump of clay that is closer to the freaks you mentioned in your post.

 

Thats why the system does matter.

 

But you do have a point in that the Bills need to find the player that can best fit into the Rushbacker, Rover, Jack role in a 3-4. A Rushbacker can usually also play DE in a 4-3; thats kind of the point of 3-4, you don't know where that other rusher or is going to come from. The Rover and a huge NT is kinda of what makes a successful 3-4 a successful 3-4. An ideal sized, effective, Rushbacker is hard to find and worthy of a first round pick.

 

Getting that player than can play DE or OLB will give the Bills the flexibility to run any system they want.

 

(Which is what they were trying to with Keslay in the beginning but he is kind of the opposite of the freaks you brought up. He can play DE in a 4-3 but when you stand him at LB, he just gets exposed for his poor coverage ability.)

Edited December 2, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[sllib olaffub]

I watched that Bowers U-tube video and he looked really impressive. With the condition of our front seven right now, I'd say there are probably like twenty college kids who could come in and help us next year. I think that Bowers, based on his size, could be an OLB in a 3-4 or a DE in a 4-3; he didn't look too big or bulky or slow for that.

I also like the idea of being versatile. Just get as many good players together and make things happen.

One of the things I've read recently and found to be insightful was about how building chemistry is good with these games heading into the last stretch of games, but it won't matter a ton if half the guys are gone next year and we're having to make new chemistry. I mean guys like Stroud, Poz, and who knows which other guys. I think we're set at NT. I like Carrington at one end, and Edwards is doing pretty good, but we could stand to get a really dynamic end like Bruce, for the pressure. I like Moats. We don't know about Batten. So I see us starting two different LB's next year, at least, and maybe a different DE. We need to find guys that can get to the QB and we need to have a scheme in place that will let them do it.

 

For the record, if we can't get Luck (he's my dream pick for us) then we go that super talented DE/OLB and maybe get two of them in the first three rounds, and an offensive lineman or TE... if we draft smart we could add a few F.A.'s and be able to play with anyone next year.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The guys you're quoting are freaks, they don't grow on trees. There aren't 32 in the world. Dwight Freeney is a freak he was drafted #11 for a reason and Robert Mathis was a DI-AA or whatever they call it now star that has Freeney on the other side to make him better, Elvis is just amazing for his height.

 

Its not as simple as just drafting the best defensive player.

 

When you draft a player its like drafting a clump of clay.

Some are more molded then others.

 

A guy you draft to mold into a NT isn't the same guy you draft as DE.

 

And the guy you draft with a top 10 pick you want to be more molded for the NFL.

 

By your opinion Bowers would be the guy you want he is the most versatile he would be a Jack or Rush Backer in a 3-4, or DE in a 4-3.

 

Fairley or Dareus aren't as versatile they're going to have they're hand down 100% of the time and the type of Defensive System you plan on running is going to effect your draft position. A 3-4 DE is traditionally a Big Bodied run stuffer. You don't want to waste a top 10 pick on a guy with that skill set; a space-eater. A 10 top draft pick is better spent trying to find a lump of clay that is closer to the freaks you mentioned in your post.

 

Thats why the system does matter.

 

But you do have a point in that the Bills need to find the player that can best fit into the Rushbacker, Rover, Jack role in a 3-4. A Rushbacker can usually also play DE in a 4-3; thats kind of the point of 3-4, you don't know where that other rusher or is going to come from. The Rover and a huge NT is kinda of what makes a successful 3-4 a successful 3-4. An ideal sized, effective, Rushbacker is hard to find and worthy of a first round pick.

 

Getting that player than can play DE or OLB will give the Bills the flexibility to run any system they want.

 

(Which is what they were trying to with Keslay in the beginning but he is kind of the opposite of the freaks you brought up. He can play DE in a 4-3 but when you stand him at LB, he just gets exposed for his poor coverage ability.)

Well, we're splitting hairs now. I stand by my thesis, though I see your point.

 

To further develop my argument, Guys like Kevin and Pat Williams, Shawn Rogers, Kris Jenkins would all be effective in the 3-4 or the 4-3 and some of them have been. DeMarcus Ware would have no trouble playing as a 4-3 end. Israel Idonije is almost perfectly suited as a 3 or 5 technique 3-4 end…but he plays in Lovie Smith's 4-3 Tampa 2. As you know, I could go on. There are plenty of great football players that could play in either scheme or a hybrid scheme.

 

My point is that you draft the best player (it's an educated guess of course). Then you build a defense that puts your players in the best position to succeed.

 

Put differently, build a scheme around your best players. Don't try to draft players to fit a particular scheme.

[Green Lightning]

Bowers is about 280. I've heard reports saying he could be a 4-3 end or 3-4 end if he had to bulk up.

 

Bruce Smith played at 265 - 270 for the most part. Carrington is 280.

[1B4IDie]

Well, we're splitting hairs now. I stand by my thesis, though I see your point.

 

My point is that you draft the best player (it's an educated guess of course). Then you build a defense that puts your players in the best position to succeed.

 

Put differently, build a scheme around your best players. Don't try to draft players to fit a particular scheme.

The problem is the difference between Fairley & Bowers is splitting hairs.

So scheme is going to come in at some point.

Bowers would have to bulk to play 5 technique in 3-4 and is almost too big to be an everydown OLB.

Where Fairley isn't going to be an OLB but can be moved around the D-Line.

Both players are beastly, both are nasty and both would inject some much needed talent on the Defense.

But to your point, you don't pass on a naturally gifted football because of scheme.

My point is when you ARE splitting hairs because the players are so talented scheme is one of those hairs to split.

This is a good problem for the Bills to have because there is so much talent in this draft if the Bills get Fairely, Bowers or Really any of the guys listed by the OP the Bills will be in great shape.

 

Bruce Smith played at 265 - 270 for the most part. Carrington is 280.

Bruce Smith played more than 20 years ago.

The Refrigerator Perry was considered too big by Dikta when he was over 308. That would be a pip squeak now.

Dikta would encourage the 340 that he was estimated to play at.

The game gets Bigger & Faster every year.

Not to mention drying to compare college players to one the biggest, meanest, baddest freaks of nature of all time is not fair to Bruce Smith or the college kid.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[Canadian Bills Fan]

I like Von Miller OLB from Texas A&M 6'3 243lbs 4.60 forty time

 

I would not be upset if the Bills drafted him and suprised he is not on that top 10 list.

 

 

Year GP TKL TFL SACK PBU INT

2007 9 22 4.0 2.0 0 0

2008 12 44 7.5 3.5 0 0

2009 13 48 21.5 17.0 5 0

2010

Totals 34 114 33.0 22.5 5 0

[NickelCity]

I am a big fan of nick fairley. I'm intrigued by Bowers and Quinn, but not quite sold yet

[Wagon Circler]

It has been speculated that Robert Quinn, due to his speed and athleticism, can easily make the transition to 3-4 OLB. He's 6'5" 270 lbs, and has been clocked at 4.38 in the 40. Scary.

No way!

[Johnny Hammersticks]

No way!

 

Was your "no way!" regarding the 40 time? I find it to be unbelievable myself. This information was found on the bleacher report website (sorry don't have the link), and I'm not sure about the credibility of that source. I suspect that he will probably run the 40 in the 4.5 - 4.6 range at the combine. Still...he is a freakish athlete.