Lindell needs to be accountable

[Buftex]

I have never been a big Lindell fan. He misses as many clutch kicks as he makes (admittedly, during his time in Buffalo, there have been very few clutch situations for him), and when Williams and Jauron were here, he seemed to favor punting, or going for it, if a kick would have been longer...that prime time game against the Browns, a few seasons ago, still sticks in my craw...he has all the power, I am just not sure his confidence level is all that high sometimes. Not saying I would cut him, but I think some competition in training camp wouldn't be the worst thing for him...

Edited November 15, 2010 by Buftex

[Logical Reasoning]

Aren't fans great? Player X screws up so he has to be cut from the team even though he may be one of our most consistent performers. And of course the opposite is true: Player Y has a great game and all of a sudden he's "franchise". I can predict these posts after every game.

 

PTR

 

Neither the original post nor the prior points note that he should be cut, and it should be noted that it is difficult to hold a kicker accountable because it is not as though there is a second string guy. Truth be told is that there have been some clutch kicks that he has missed and he has made alot too, but many of the ones that he has made have lacked the pressure of the ones he missed. He is good and he has been consistent, but he needs to make some when the pressure is on. Not everything is start him and he is great or cut him because he stinks. This is middle of the road commentary on a guy that needs a bit of a push.

[DanInSouthBuffalo]

I've seen a couple of questionable snaps from center on punts (KC game in my memory) and kicks. I don't know if that is contributing to the issue or not.

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

Anybody notice that we had our FG team out there and then we called a timeout? WE ICED OUR OWN FREAKING KICKER!

[Hplarrm]

Neither the original post nor the prior points note that he should be cut, and it should be noted that it is difficult to hold a kicker accountable because it is not as though there is a second string guy. Truth be told is that there have been some clutch kicks that he has missed and he has made alot too, but many of the ones that he has made have lacked the pressure of the ones he missed. He is good and he has been consistent, but he needs to make some when the pressure is on. Not everything is start him and he is great or cut him because he stinks. This is middle of the road commentary on a guy that needs a bit of a push.

Getting a push as you phrase it is a key part of the life of being a kicker in the NFL.

 

It is merely a question of not whether there should be a push but whether the TEAM is most helped by there being a BOG push which pointedly demands performance (OR ELSE), a low-key push which always demands excellence but there is little public campaign or reflection of this, or push the guy out the door.

 

Lindell actually has gotten pointed push in his career as a Bill when he missed a critical should have been a gimme pick under 40 yards against Pitts in his second year (this kick, difference maker Clements laying a return on the carpet, the DL completely failing to stop a Pitts 3rd string RB from racking up 100+ yards, and finally Bledsoe failing to lead the team back from all these errors led to a loss in a playoff significant game.

 

As far as Lindell, none other than TD worked with him several entire practices having him kick the ball again and again and again from 45 or so yards while TD verbally kept saying that the clock was ticking down and the game and the season was on the line.

 

Lindell stepped up to this pointed pressure and has pretty much been money for the Bills since that time (for example he just missed his FIRST PAT in his entire career).

 

My sense is that the constant pressure to do perfect needs to be part of the Bills work with Lindell. However, kicking is such a mental game and confidence (even false confidence on a windy day kicking into the tunnel in OT is needed to make the kick) is such a huge part of it, the good ST and HC needs to be judicious in how public they make the demand for perfection.

 

My sense is that NO ONE on TSW has yet to make what should actually be a fairly confirmable case based on real stats that he is a problem.

 

I do not think his kicking even in late game situations is a problem (YET).

 

Sure he missed a PAT a couple of weeks ago (again the first in his career). Yep he missed a makeable FG (he in fact did make it the first time but the opposing coach called TO just before the snap.

 

However, beyond the broad subjective rantings a few folks have made in this thread that he is missing a lot (most, some, any) makeable late game kicks NO ONE HAS PRESENTED THE STATISTICAL CASE OF A BUNCH OF KEY MISSES).

 

If one is gonna complain this should be easy to indicate and quite possible to show.

 

Advice to DeHaven and Gailey (not needed for sure but its a fan's right to do this):

 

1. Keep the consistent and constant pressure on Lindell to be perfect, but do this fairly quietly at this point as the game itself and loyalty to one's teammates will be doing this job all the time.

 

2. No need to be pointed in your criticism (YET) but episodes like he missed rekick and the PAT should put Lindell on your watch list.

 

3. Us fans need to be able to make some reality based claim of problems (site the specific games or the compiled stats of his missing in critical situations) or simply shut up.

[yungmack]

I love Lindell, and the guy in Baltimore was correct that he doesn't get the credit he deserves (but realistically, what kicker does?). But I think he's in decline. There were warning signs last season. Then in the pre-season I became "officially" concerned about him, posting that at the time. And he's only made me more concerned as the season has gone on, even missing an extra point.

 

No, I'm not suggesting the Bills cut him, especially right now. But Buddy better put the search for his replacement at the top of his ever-growing To Do list.

[vincec]

What do suggest? Giving Lindell a "time out"? 40 lashes? How about cutting him? That will show him. Now find another kicker who has been as accurate as him.

 

Think.

 

PTR

In today's NFL, kickers are a dime a dozen, including Lindell. Consider:

 

The NFL average FG percentage in 2010: 81%

Average over 50 yds: 53%

 

Ryan Lindell Career average: 81%

Lindell Average over 50 yds: 54%

[Talley56]

At least Lindell isn't making excuses:

 

Steelers' Reed says bad turf contributed to missed field goal

Edited November 15, 2010 by Talley56

[Ramius]

People think Lindell "sucks" because they are only choosing to be pessimistic and only remember his misses. They forget his clutch kicks, such as winning the Raiders game in 2008, winning the Redskins game that same season, the jags game a few years back, etc.

 

Those calling lindell inaccurate or "not clutch" are simply looking for something to B word about. He's one of the better kickers in the league. There's no reason to worry about him.

[NoSaint]

I happened to be sitting next to another Bills fans in Baltimore after he kicked that game tying kick. The guy elbows me and says "Lindell is the BEST kicker in the NFL and he never gets the credit he deserves"...he was so adamant about it. I'm like dude, he's ok but you forget how many big kicks he's missed over the last several years. He seems to miss an inordinate number of 4th Qtr kicks (over his Bills career) that could win the game or put it out of reach. He's money in the 1st and 2nd Qtr though. ANother Miss to win the game in KC too. And you say, it was over 50 yards but we've seen other teams' kickers bury the BIlls in our stadium with over 50 yarders.

 

Bottom line...I like Lindell,,he's good, but he's certainly not money in the bank with the game on the line.

 

its amazing how fans remember their teams misses and other teams makes - the bitterness is memorable. You walk away from a win with a happy feeling so its easy to forget when you make it, or they miss it.

 

Id be curious to see stats on lindell by distance and quarter. Id guess he attempts far more 50+ in the 4th quarter, or will kick in weather he wouldnt early on so he misses more kicks then... ie he is used differently, but his ability reamins the same.

 

think hes pretty consistent but perception is often not reality so id be curious to see the cold hard numbers.

[Hplarrm]

In today's NFL, kickers are a dime a dozen, including Lindell. Consider:

 

The NFL average FG percentage in 2010: 81%

Average over 50 yds: 53%

 

Ryan Lindell Career average: 81%

Lindell Average over 50 yds: 54%

I think TD used that dime a dozen phrase when he was justifying the cutting of Steve Christie. Unless folks have conveniently forgotten, this then triggered a course of events which saw:

 

1. A series of Jake Ariens debacles where kick were missed.

2. Shayne Graham being signed and also failing to do the job (which led to him being cutted by us but then resigned eventually with Cincy where he was money in the bank there for a few years until he wasn't)

3. TD had to spend heavily to finally get the new savior Lindell (who had his rocky moments initially until he too has been money in the bank for us until some recent burps.

4. Christie not only went on to play several more years but actually had a number of notable games (including one day I think he hit 5 FGs in one game.

 

The simple fact is that even if were true that good kickers are a dime a dozen (its not) there are several dozen kickers our there to choose from and it really is difficult to find the mere one kicker that works for your team amidst the dozens out there.

 

The Bills need to keep Lindell until they are forced not to do so because he demonstrably and consistently goes south in terms of making key kicks.

 

Lindell is not there yet in terms of being a problem.

 

If you think he is then specifically who do you advocate we get to replace him.

 

Unless you have a specific alternative then merely getting your panties all up in a wad about him when this team has far more important and immediate problems to work on (like the pass rush, the OL and filling out the 3-4 D) makes whining about Lindell (particularly after a win) seem pretty mindless.

[Special K]

I was more pissed about using the timeout, only to have him miss.

 

I assume they burned it because the quarter was winding out, and they wanted him to boot one down the favorable end of the field...double fail.

 

I actually think this was a good idea. Also, I like that they took the Timeout with 10 seconds left so he could also kick the ensuing kickoff with the wind(assuming he would have made it).

[xsoldier54]

Why the hell not? I see one of the retards here is running Fitzpatrick out of town this morning, too. Run all three out of town, fug it.

I prefer to be called "mentally challenged".

[BuffOrange]

Lindell is fairly solid for the most part and he got a nice kick to send the Ravens kick into overtime, but it was not a long kick yesterday and he missed it. That same distance lost us a game against the Browns on Monday night and it seems like there have been others where he has had a chance to make a kick to get a win or at least a bit closer and he just doesn't get it. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

No.

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

Lindell is the most accurate kicker in Bills history.

 

so if by your logic to "hold him accountable" for one bad game, you are willing to apply the same standard when they have bad games?

[ndirish1978]

What do suggest? Giving Lindell a "time out"? 40 lashes? How about cutting him? That will show him. Now find another kicker who has been as accurate as him.

 

Think.

 

PTR

 

 

I agree. The guy has been money for us. I'm not going to run him out of town for missing 2 kicks.

[vincec]

I think TD used that dime a dozen phrase when he was justifying the cutting of Steve Christie. Unless folks have conveniently forgotten, this then triggered a course of events which saw:

 

1. A series of Jake Ariens debacles where kick were missed.

2. Shayne Graham being signed and also failing to do the job (which led to him being cutted by us but then resigned eventually with Cincy where he was money in the bank there for a few years until he wasn't)

3. TD had to spend heavily to finally get the new savior Lindell (who had his rocky moments initially until he too has been money in the bank for us until some recent burps.

4. Christie not only went on to play several more years but actually had a number of notable games (including one day I think he hit 5 FGs in one game.

 

The simple fact is that even if were true that good kickers are a dime a dozen (its not) there are several dozen kickers our there to choose from and it really is difficult to find the mere one kicker that works for your team amidst the dozens out there.

 

The Bills need to keep Lindell until they are forced not to do so because he demonstrably and consistently goes south in terms of making key kicks.

 

Lindell is not there yet in terms of being a problem.

 

If you think he is then specifically who do you advocate we get to replace him.

 

Unless you have a specific alternative then merely getting your panties all up in a wad about him when this team has far more important and immediate problems to work on (like the pass rush, the OL and filling out the 3-4 D) makes whining about Lindell (particularly after a win) seem pretty mindless.

The statistics clearly indicate that Lindell is dead average. He is not "one of the best kickers in the league" as has been stated in other posts, or even above average. Do you dispute this? If so, state your case.

Should he be replaced? Yes, if and when someone better is available at a reasonable price. Until then the Bills will live with mediocrity, which is the case in many positions. I completely agree that other positions should be a higher focus.

[Ramius]

The statistics clearly indicate that Lindell is dead average. He is not "one of the best kickers in the league" as has been stated in other posts, or even above average. Do you dispute this? If so, state your case.

Should he be replaced? Yes, if and when someone better is available at a reasonable price. Until then the Bills will live with mediocrity, which is the case in many positions. I completely agree that other positions should be a higher focus.

 

Feel free to compile a list of current kickers you'd rather have other than lindell, and then share it with us. If you think Lindell is simply mediocre, you don't watch a lot of other games.

[NoSaint]

The statistics clearly indicate that Lindell is dead average. He is not "one of the best kickers in the league" as has been stated in other posts, or even above average. Do you dispute this? If so, state your case.

Should he be replaced? Yes, if and when someone better is available at a reasonable price. Until then the Bills will live with mediocrity, which is the case in many positions. I completely agree that other positions should be a higher focus.

 

As the previous poster showed - his stats are roughly average in one of the worst kicking situations in the league. I'd have to think that if he didn't kick 8 games at home, 1 in NE, and 1 in NY he would have much better stats. Drop him in Atlanta or new Orleans with 8 home games in a dome, one road game in a dome, and games in TB and Carolina - I bet those percentages go up drastically. The afc east and afc north are easily the hardest divisions to kick in.