OK.....This QB Situation Is Easier To Understand Than People Make it.

[sven233]

Listening to WGR today and looking at a lot of posts and blogs around, I think people are making more of the QB switch than what needs to be made of it.

 

It is fairly easy to understand, so I will do my best not to make it harder than it is. What this all boils down to is that Trent Edwards has a bi-polar way of playing football. What I mean by this is that he is 1 guy in shorts and in practice and another on Gameday. I have watched Trent Edwards very closely since he has been here. I'll be the first to admit I was very excited about him when he first got here and I saw him practice for the first time. I have been to many practices and let me tell you, he was head and shoulders above the other 2 guys in the just about every practice drill they ran. Whether it was an accuracy drill, a throwing target drill, the fade drill in to the bucket, etc.......you name it, Trent was better, by a lot. He is also very good in live practice drills as well. 7-7....11-11, etc.....he was better. So, I can easily understand why Gailey and the rest of the Bills organization picked Edwards in the "QB competition" this year. He was the best QB in practice and the drills, by far.

 

Then comes the Preseason. At this time Trent is the leader in the clubhouse due to his strong practices and strong Training Camp. He has earned the right to play with the Starters. There is no disputing that because, to this point, he is well ahead of the other guys. Edwards comes out in Preseason and looks pretty good overall, even though you can start to see glimpses of the issues he will have to come. He makes a couple of throws to Parrish down the field. He hits a wide-open Evans in the Indy game. Spiller tears it up in the preseason which moves the ball down the field and the offense is pretty productive (except for the first Preseason game in Washington). So, Edwards makes a few good throws in the Preseason and, since he is the only guy that got any reps with the rest of the starters, looks the best overall. There was no way the other 2 QBs were going to pass him in the Preseason. It was almost impossible.

 

BUT HERE IS WHERE THE PROBLEMS START.......THE REGULAR SEASON......WHEN THE GAMES COUNT AND ACTUALLY MATTER!!!!!!!!

 

Here is where the bi-polar Trent takes over. The other Trent Edwards. For whatever reason, when the lights come on bright in the regular season, the light in Trent Edwards head goes out. He is simply not the QB he is in practice, drills, Training Camp, etc. He starts playing scared. He tries so hard to to make mistakes, he forgets what he needs to do to win football games. All of a sudden, he does not throw the balls that he does in practice. He doesn't take the same chances he does when the games count. The reason for this is because somewhere along the way, he got too scared to make a mistake. He has said it himself that he is a perfectionist. He can't stand to make mistakes. This includes interceptions and incomplete passes. This is why he holds the ball so long and it is almost like pulling teeth to get him to throw the ball away. I mean, the 4th down play at the end of last weeks game is the perfect example of this. It's 4th and long......down by 27 points......nothing to lose.......and he runs out of bounds without throwing the ball down the field. He didn't even want to take a chance at an incomplete pass or int on a play that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. And this is not new......he has been doing it pretty much since he was given the Starting job a couple years ago. He can't stand to throw the ball away and take the incomplete pass. That is why he always takes the safe, short throw 5 yards or less down the field. He just doesn't want incompletions or picks.

 

Now, I am not saying he is intentionally doing it. I just think that the things he does is what his body and brain are telling him to do. Some QBs in the league have the complete opposite mentality and care too little about the results of a play. They just like to chuck it up there and see what happens. Losman was a great example of this. He used to ignore everything underneath and just throw it long. He held the ball too long at times too, but it was for different reasons. He kept wanting to hit the big play and he ignored the underneath stuff that defenses gave him. So, he took his share of sacks as well, but it was because he was too focused on the big play. The key to playing QB is to have that "IT" factor. That "IT" factor is actually a lot of little things put together, but it mainly includes the ability to adjust to every situation, every defense, make the throws that the defense is giving you, and have the ability to lead your team when things are not going well. There are a lot of QBs in the NFL.....not many have that "IT" factor to be great. It is not easy to find a QB that has all of these qualities. The key is finding a QB with the most of these qualities as possible. Edwards, and Losman for that matter didn't have enough of these traits to be a great NFL QB.

 

But anyway, I know this is getting lengthy. Much longer than I thought it would. But to sum up, I can easily see where Gailey and the Front Office got taken by Edwards. Sure, they had his old film, but that was from another coaching staff. So, Gailey went in with a clean slate (as he should) hoping he could take Edwards and make him into a QB (because he does have talent). Gailey started working with Edwards and all of the other QBs and saw the exact thing that many of us saw.....Edwards was head and shoulders above the other 2 in the practice setting and the Preseason games........when things didn't count. Unfortunately, this is all Gailey had to go by under his reign here. But then, the REAL games came along and things started to COUNT and Edwards reverted back to the scared QB he has been for a long time. Gailey was probably pretty shocked to be honest with you. Edwards all of a sudden was not the guy he had seen the entire offseason. Edwards became the guy Gailey saw on old film and Gailey quickly realized this (and didn't believe it was going to get better) and decided to make the move sooner than later. I can't blame Gailey at all for going with Edwards based on what he saw in practice because Edwards is the best practice QB they have.

 

Look......this team has a lot of problems. The QB, though, is the biggest problem. The O-Line has it's share of issues which is adding tot he problems of the QB. But, couple a bad O-Line with a scared Trent Edwards and it is not going to end well. And here we are.....Fitz is in.....Trent is out. I doubt it will make a difference in the wins and losses, but don't be surprised if it looks better. Don't be surprised if the O-Line looks better along with that. If Fitz gets the ball out on time, the O-Line will look better. The one thing I know about Fitz is that he is not scared to throw incompletions or picks. He is not an accurate QB by any means, but just seeing the ball come out more than 3-4 yards on a regular basis will make it more interesting to watch.

Edited September 21, 2010 by sven233

[Green Lightning]

The radio boys are just baiting you so you will listen. The two of them are empty headed and really just hate the Bills. So do what I do...don't listen. You know what we need? A new sports talk host draft.......

[reddogblitz]

Trent needs to find a nice flag football league to play in. He'd be awesome.

[Ball'n]

I'm going to go ahead and say I agree, and that Gailey should not be criticized for this move. I am going to wait until the bye week before making any judgments as I hope the offense gameplans will look better by that time, given we have a QB in that will actually take shots. I know he is not accurate, but we should be able to see more of what is planned with him at QB.

[Original Byrd Man]

Listening to WGR today and looking at a lot of posts and blogs around, I think people are making more of the QB switch than what needs to be made of it.

 

Don't be surprised if the O-Line looks better along with that. If Fitz gets the ball out on time, the O-Line will look better. The one thing I know about Fitz is that he is not scared to throw incompletions or picks. He is not an accurate QB by any means, but just seeing the ball come out more than 3-4 yards on a regular basis will make it more interesting to watch.

I'm with you. I used to believe it was Jauron's doing, then I saw some throws into tight coverage this preseason and I thought he just might have a game to him after all but then comes the regular season and it's old Trent all over again. And you're right about the last play against GB WTF! I don't think a hail mary is in his genes. I did read somewhere that Brohm is the opposite of Trent in that he did not practice well, in college but brought it on game day. Could he be the answer?

[Mike in Syracuse]

I've seen a lot of Trent's on the range at golf tournaments.

 

If any of you watch or play competitive golf you see "Trent's" on the range all the time. Basically they're good guys who hit the ball extremely well. Every shot is well struck and straight. They can spend all day raking and swinging and rarely do they look bad.

 

The trouble starts when they get to the firs tee. For whatever reason they just can't repeat the swing that serves them so well on the range. Inevitably their first drive is either pull hooked into the woods or pushed OB and their round is over before it started. Oh sure, they'll hit a great shot now and then, maybe even string a few good holes together but in the end, the collapse is only moments away.

 

I wish Trent well, I just don't want him to be our QB ever again.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Mike in Syracuse

[b stein 22]

read all of that. You could have just said that Trents a kitty and does not have the "IT" factor. Thats pretty much summarizes the whole post.

Edited September 21, 2010 by b stein 22

[PS 56]

Great post. Trent did have his days. He looked good in the beginning of the 2008 season. Then he got slammed. Since then it has not been the same. I miss the old Trent. But I think his days as a Bill are over.

[Marshmallow]

Listening to WGR today and looking at a lot of posts and blogs around, I think people are making more of the QB switch than what needs to be made of it.

 

It is fairly easy to understand, so I will do my best not to make it harder than it is. What this all boils down to is that Trent Edwards has a bi-polar way of playing football. What I mean by this is that he is 1 guy in shorts and in practice and another on Gameday. I have watched Trent Edwards very closely since he has been here. I'll be the first to admit I was very excited about him when he first got here and I saw him practice for the first time. I have been to many practices and let me tell you, he was head and shoulders above the other 2 guys in the just about every practice drill they ran. Whether it was an accuracy drill, a throwing target drill, the fade drill in to the bucket, etc.......you name it, Trent was better, by a lot. He is also very good in live practice drills as well. 7-7....11-11, etc.....he was better. So, I can easily understand why Gailey and the rest of the Bills organization picked Edwards in the "QB competition" this year. He was the best QB in practice and the drills, by far.

 

Then comes the Preseason. At this time Trent is the leader in the clubhouse due to his strong practices and strong Training Camp. He has earned the right to play with the Starters. There is no disputing that because, to this point, he is well ahead of the other guys. Edwards comes out in Preseason and looks pretty good overall, even though you can start to see glimpses of the issues he will have to come. He makes a couple of throws to Parrish down the field. He hits a wide-open Evans in the Indy game. Spiller tears it up in the preseason which moves the ball down the field and the offense is pretty productive (except for the first Preseason game in Washington). So, Edwards makes a few good throws in the Preseason and, since he is the only guy that got any reps with the rest of the starters, looks the best overall. There was no way the other 2 QBs were going to pass him in the Preseason. It was almost impossible.

 

BUT HERE IS WHERE THE PROBLEMS START.......THE REGULAR SEASON......WHEN THE GAMES COUNT AND ACTUALLY MATTER!!!!!!!!

 

Here is where the bi-polar Trent takes over. The other Trent Edwards. For whatever reason, when the lights come on bright in the regular season, the light in Trent Edwards head goes out. He is simply not the QB he is in practice, drills, Training Camp, etc. He starts playing scared. He tries so hard to to make mistakes, he forgets what he needs to do to win football games. All of a sudden, he does not throw the balls that he does in practice. He doesn't take the same chances he does when the games count. The reason for this is because somewhere along the way, he got too scared to make a mistake. He has said it himself that he is a perfectionist. He can't stand to make mistakes. This includes interceptions and incomplete passes. This is why he holds the ball so long and it is almost like pulling teeth to get him to throw the ball away. I mean, the 4th down play at the end of last weeks game is the perfect example of this. It's 4th and long......down by 27 points......nothing to lose.......and he runs out of bounds without throwing the ball down the field. He didn't even want to take a chance at an incomplete pass or int on a play that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. And this is not new......he has been doing it pretty much since he was given the Starting job a couple years ago. He can't stand to throw the ball away and take the incomplete pass. That is why he always takes the safe, short throw 5 yards or less down the field. He just doesn't want incompletions or picks.

 

Now, I am not saying he is intentionally doing it. I just think that the things he does is what his body and brain are telling him to do. Some QBs in the league have the complete opposite mentality and care too little about the results of a play. They just like to chuck it up there and see what happens. Losman was a great example of this. He used to ignore everything underneath and just throw it long. He held the ball too long at times too, but it was for different reasons. He kept wanting to hit the big play and he ignored the underneath stuff that defenses gave him. So, he took his share of sacks as well, but it was because he was too focused on the big play. The key to playing QB is to have that "IT" factor. That "IT" factor is actually a lot of little things put together, but it mainly includes the ability to adjust to every situation, every defense, make the throws that the defense is giving you, and have the ability to lead your team when things are not going well. There are a lot of QBs in the NFL.....not many have that "IT" factor to be great. It is not easy to find a QB that has all of these qualities. The key is finding a QB with the most of these qualities as possible. Edwards, and Losman for that matter didn't have enough of these traits to be a great NFL QB.

 

But anyway, I know this is getting lengthy. Much longer than I thought it would. But to sum up, I can easily see where Gailey and the Front Office got taken by Edwards. Sure, they had his old film, but that was from another coaching staff. So, Gailey went in with a clean slate (as he should) hoping he could take Edwards and make him into a QB (because he does have talent). Gailey started working with Edwards and all of the other QBs and saw the exact thing that many of us saw.....Edwards was head and shoulders above the other 2 in the practice setting and the Preseason games........when things didn't count. Unfortunately, this is all Gailey had to go by under his reign here. But then, the REAL games came along and things started to COUNT and Edwards reverted back to the scared QB he has been for a long time. Gailey was probably pretty shocked to be honest with you. Edwards all of a sudden was not the guy he had seen the entire offseason. Edwards became the guy Gailey saw on old film and Gailey quickly realized this (and didn't believe it was going to get better) and decided to make the move sooner than later. I can't blame Gailey at all for going with Edwards based on what he saw in practice because Edwards is the best practice QB they have.

 

Look......this team has a lot of problems. The QB, though, is the biggest problem. The O-Line has it's share of issues which is adding tot he problems of the QB. But, couple a bad O-Line with a scared Trent Edwards and it is not going to end well. And here we are.....Fitz is in.....Trent is out. I doubt it will make a difference in the wins and losses, but don't be surprised if it looks better. Don't be surprised if the O-Line looks better along with that. If Fitz gets the ball out on time, the O-Line will look better. The one thing I know about Fitz is that he is not scared to throw incompletions or picks. He is not an accurate QB by any means, but just seeing the ball come out more than 3-4 yards on a regular basis will make it more interesting to watch.

 

How long did it take you to write this?

Took me 2 seconds to realize it wasn't worth reading.

Lean to edit for chrissake.

[Bflojohn]

Real good analysis, and I also agree that Chan Gailey was just playing the hand he was dealt. He will see no upside in Ryan Fitzpatrick either, as we all know, and Brian Brohm will get his moment in the sun. Here's hoping for the best.... or at least entertaining football.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Bflojohn

[Pilsner]

I liked what you wrote sven. I also agree that our O-line will look a little better with Fitzy throwing the ball for longer passes than our former starter who's name I shall not mention.

 

He's a good guy, but just not cut out to be an NFL qb. I still wish him the best in his next career.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Pilsner

[sven233]

How long did it take you to write this?

Took me 2 seconds to realize it wasn't worth reading.

Lean to edit for chrissake.

 

How do I "Lean" to edit? Way to back up your post.

 

Took me 2 seconds to read your post and less to realize you are an idiot!

 

 

Anyway, thanks for the other feedback guys. I think we can all agree that Trent doesn't have "IT." Unfortunately, none of the QBs on the roster do. Ant to the poster that said Brohm was not great in practice......you are pretty much right on. But, who knows what that means yet. Until we see him in some games that count, it is going to be hard to make a real judgment on him.

 

Real good analysis, and I also agree that Chan Gailey was just playing the hand he was dealt. He will see no upside in Ryan Fitzpatrick either, as we all know, and Brian Brohm will get his moment in the sun. Here's hoping for the best.... or at least entertaining football.

 

People have to remember that Chan Gailey gave everyone a blank slate to start with. He gave everyone the chance to prove what kind of player they are. With Trent, all he saw was how great he was on the practice field and probably thought that Trent had figured it out because he was running the offense the way it was supposed to be run (when there was nothing really at stake). But the lights came on and shined brightly on Trent and ha couldn't handle it. Gailey was probably trying to figure out what happened!!! He probably saw the Trent we all know and realized that he had been duped by Trent with his great practice play. This was the first time Gailey had the chance to see him try to run the offense in a REAL GAME and saw that he really didn't have it figured out and knew pretty quickly Trent couldn't get it done. So, I can't blame Gailey at all at this point.

 

I am also pretty sure he know that Fitz isn't the answer either, but you can only do so much when you don't have your guy yet. Now, if after the draft next year they come out with the QB that Chan wants and he still doesn't show signs of getting it done, then I will start to worry. But no need to panic yet. I am willing to give him a couple of years to fix this team. Dick and company messed this team up pretty good and Gailey and Nix won't be able to fix it overnight. So, I will be patient and we'll see where things go. But when Trent and Fitz are the best QBs on the roster, you have no OTs, and no #2 WR.......it is going to take some time. There will be a lot of turnover on this team the next couple seasons. We'll see what happens. Just have to find our QB first and then get some OTs in here to protect him.

[SDS]

Dude, I could have written that myself. Thanks, nfw I was going to type all that out.

[34-78-83]

Fantastic post man...

[RuntheDamnBall]

Not a bad post, but I take issue a bit with the whole "you take what the defense is giving you" shenanigans. This is what Trent did all the time. He saw that the defense was giving him nothing, so he tried nothing. You have to actually have some qualities that threaten a defense to give you something else; otherwise they send three guys because they know between you and the line that's all they need to rattle you. They blanket your receivers to the point you aren't confident in any throw you make, so you don't throw it. What else is left?

 

If you take what they give you, and they're worth their salt as a defensive opponent, they're not going to give you sh--. If you're a good QB, you take what you can, and then you take what they give you. We saw Rodgers do this last week. But you don't accept "there's nothing to take" as an answer.

[Beebe's Kid]

Listening to WGR today and looking at a lot of posts and blogs around, I think people are making more of the QB switch than what needs to be made of it.

 

It is fairly easy to understand, so I will do my best not to make it harder than it is. What this all boils down to is that Trent Edwards has a bi-polar way of playing football. What I mean by this is that he is 1 guy in shorts and in practice and another on Gameday. I have watched Trent Edwards very closely since he has been here. I'll be the first to admit I was very excited about him when he first got here and I saw him practice for the first time. I have been to many practices and let me tell you, he was head and shoulders above the other 2 guys in the just about every practice drill they ran. Whether it was an accuracy drill, a throwing target drill, the fade drill in to the bucket, etc.......

Great post.

 

Confidence...you can call that "it" if you want, but he does not have any confidence. He doesn't trust himself, and is scared to let everybody down...so much so that it has cost him, perhaps, his career. The dolts at WGR, and 99% here won't get that, and the first time they hear "It's Chans fault" All of the sheep with go flocking to that idea and you'll see it posted all over. It is not hard to understand, it is not a difficult concept. The timing is perfect. He had two auditions. Failed. Enough. E !@#$ing nough.

 

Gailey couldn't deny Trent's ability in practice, which I understand is difficult. He thought he could work with him...Trent proved him wrong.

 

Chan played the old "!@#$ me once shame on you, !@#$ me twice, shame on me." He bit the bullet after Miami, and shouldered the blame, hell he still is, but he made a move in a different direction.

 

We played decent with Fitzy under Fewell....I would love to see a QB that will follow direction.

 

This is a recipe for failure to all the dicks here, but we'll be surprised. I would say pleasantly, but people think you play for draft picks, so they won't be happy.

 

 

 

How long did it take you to write this?

Took me 2 seconds to realize it wasn't worth reading.

Lean to edit for chrissake.

 

Go to bed, it's a school night.

 

This would be the kind of douche referenced above.

 

 

 

**This forum was once very decent. It is on team spiral these days. Is there no mods here anymore?

[sven233]

Not a bad post, but I take issue a bit with the whole "you take what the defense is giving you" shenanigans. This is what Trent did all the time. He saw that the defense was giving him nothing, so he tried nothing. You have to actually have some qualities that threaten a defense to give you something else; otherwise they send three guys because they know between you and the line that's all they need to rattle you. They blanket your receivers to the point you aren't confident in any throw you make, so you don't throw it. What else is left?

 

If you take what they give you, and they're worth their salt as a defensive opponent, they're not going to give you sh--. If you're a good QB, you take what you can, and then you take what they give you. We saw Rodgers do this last week. But you don't accept "there's nothing to take" as an answer.

 

I guess I probably wasn't as clear on that as I should have been. What I meant by that is when you watch the Top QBs in the league (Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Brady, etc.) they seem to adapt their game to what they are seeing on the field. For example, just watching Rodgers last week against the Bills makes this point. There were a couple of occasions where the defense tried things they probably shouldn't have. For example, the Bills had Kelsay matched up man on man with Finley! Rodgers immediately noticed this (the Bills gave him the match-up) and he took advantage of it in a big way. Then, on other occasions, the Bills played straight man to man with a nickle package and Rodgers recognized this and took off running making huge plays with his feet.....again taking what the defense was giving him.

 

Maybe "taking what the defense is giving them" was not quite the right term. Maybe I should have said "HAVING THE ABILITY TO READ THE DEFENSE BEFORE THE SNAP AND FIND THE FAVORABLE MATCH-UPS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE QUICK DECISIONS AS SOON AS THE DROP IS COMPLETE." In Trent's case, the defense did give him stuff.......he just refused to take it most of the time because he played scared. We'll just wait and see where things go from here. But, my point was that there were plays open for Trent, he just couldn't make a decision to save his life.

[ChasBB]

sven233 -- absolutely great post!! Very well thought-out. Enjoyed reading it. Gailey was right to start Trent based on his practice and pre-season performance and Gailey was also right to bench him after two games. I have no problem with Gailey whatsoever here. Perhaps his gameplans could have been tweaked here & there, but these things go as your QB goes and if your QB play deteriorates badly -- as it indeed did -- then the gameplan kind of goes out the window with the poor QB play. I would like to respectfully disagree on one point -- that Fitz won't make a difference in wins and losses. I believe that Fitz will make a difference. He was 5-4 last year. If you take that same winning percentage and apply it to the remaining 14 games on the schedule and you're looking at 7 or 8 wins. The 0-2 hole he has to start with kind of stinks, but it is what it is. That means Fitz will need to improve on his last year's winning percentage. With better coaching in place -- and I DO believe Chan is a superior coach despite this shaky start -- this could actually happen. But, it's a tough schedule and it won't be easy. However, as another poster said, it may still suck, but it will be a more tolerable form of suck.

[Vinny4sum]

I agree with sven's point and I also agree the missing trait is confidence.

 

I also think Chan made the switch for another reason. If you listen to the post game presser with Chan toward the end a reporter stated something like " the video showed a lot of players sitting on the bench in shock, how do you combat that?" (paraphrase) Then when Chan made the announcement he said he did it for a "spark." I think Chan is affraid this could go south quickly from an attitude perspective.

[sven233]

sven233 -- absolutely great post!! Very well thought-out. Enjoyed reading it. Gailey was right to start Trent based on his practice and pre-season performance and Gailey was also right to bench him after two games. I have no problem with Gailey whatsoever here. Perhaps his gameplans could have been tweaked here & there, but these things go as your QB goes and if your QB play deteriorates badly -- as it indeed did -- then the gameplan kind of goes out the window with the poor QB play. I would like to respectfully disagree on one point -- that Fitz won't make a difference in wins and losses. I believe that Fitz will make a difference. He was 5-4 last year. If you take that same winning percentage and apply it to the remaining 14 games on the schedule and you're looking at 7 or 8 wins. The 0-2 hole he has to start with kind of stinks, but it is what it is. That means Fitz will need to improve on his last year's winning percentage. With better coaching in place -- and I DO believe Chan is a superior coach despite this shaky start -- this could actually happen. But, it's a tough schedule and it won't be easy. However, as another poster said, it may still suck, but it will be a more tolerable form of suck.

 

Thanks for the kind words!

 

As for Fitz, I do believe he will give us a better chance to win, but I am not sure how many we will. Last year, overall, our schedule was pretty easy. This year is definitely a step up in the competition side of things. So, while I do think the coaching is drastically improved, I don't think it will be enough to overcome the holes on the team. We are weak at OT, we have no true #2 WR, our only true pass catching TE is out for the next 2 weeks, and our defense, while not playing as bad as I thought they might, will struggle some as time goes along. Right now they are running a mix of 3-4 and 4-3, but the problem is, they don't have the personnel to run either the way they need to be run. They are in transition and there is still a lot of turnover needed there, especially at LB. All that said, we will win some games. Honestly I hope it is not too many. We have been average for too long and it has contributed to us not getting better faster. For once, i wouldn't mind bottoming out so we can get our QB of the future. I want us to be able to pick the guy we want out of all the QBs that come out. So, while I want the Bills to play better, since we can't win the Super Bowl this year, I would be more than willing to sacrifice a decent yer this year to get better next year. I want to win the Super Bowl. The only way to do that is to get good players. Hopefully no matter where we end up picking in the draft next year, the front office makes the right picks. We'll see!