For anyone who still thinks a new stadium is a good idea

[Captain Caveman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/sports/08stadium.html

 

New Jerseyans are hardly alone in paying for stadiums that no longer exist. Residents of Seattle’s King County owe more than $80 million for the Kingdome, which was razed in 2000. The story has been similar in Indianapolis and Philadelphia. In Houston, Kansas City, Mo., Memphis and Pittsburgh, residents are paying for stadiums and arenas that were abandoned by the teams they were built for.

[bowery4]

An investment in The Ralph would be a good idea IMO: an attractive dome w/ retractable roof would be a good (although I imagine, unpopular idea round here, we would bring more TO ppl in). The field and infrastructure of it is very nice not bad seats, excellent sight lines.

The biggest problem would actually seem to be location but IMO it's not that much of an issue.

Not so sure there is still fed money around for it but if there was it would be worth it to help keep the franchise in WNY.

[Arkady Renko]

It's not a good idea. The problem is that the other areas looking for an NFL team are willing to be stupid.

Edited September 8, 2010 by johnnyb

[Mr. WEO]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/sports/08stadium.html

Doesn't apply to privately funded stadiums.

[Captain Caveman]

Doesn't apply to privately funded stadiums.

 

Anybody who is crazy enough to privately fund a new stadium for the Bills would run the franchise into the ground. Like really, into the ground, not the mediocre teams of the last few years. There's absolutely no way a new stadium in Buffalo is profitable, regardless of who builds it.

[dwight in philly]

for the umpteenth time: buffalo does not need a new stadium. articles like the one posted here just continues to back that up. tweak the ralph in whatever way, but it seems like it could be serviceable for many years. do what green bay did, add a little charm, the place has a bit of history , promote that. any new owner would be at an advantage from a stadium debt standpoint.

[tbonestake]

The Ralph is a REAL Football stadium!!! Who needs retractable roofs and heated seats?! LOSERS!!! The reason you go see a football game in December is to freeze your cojones off and route on the Bills!!! If you want indoor sports, go to a basketball game!!! Enjoy the Ralph for what it is, a throwback to old time football and that's what it should be marketed as, ala Green Bay with the Frozen Tundra. Instead of arguing with the cold weather-hating media and out-of-town know-nothings, embrace our football heritage for what it is!!! We are a cold weather, blue collar city who likes our beer cold and our football stadiums COLDER!!!

 

LETS GOT BILLS!!!!

 

Edited September 8, 2010 by tbonestake

[dwight in philly]

The Ralph is a REAL Football stadium!!! Who needs retractable roofs and heated seats?! LOSERS!!! The reason you go see a football game in December is to freeze your cojones off and route on the Bills!!! If you want indoor sports, go to a basketball game!!! Enjoy the Ralph for what it is, a throwback to old time football and that's what it should be marketed as, ala Green Bay with the Frozen Tundra. Instead of arguing with the cold weather-hating media and out-of-town know-nothings, embrace our football heritage for what it is!!! We are a cold weather, blue collar city who likes our beer cold and our football stadiums COLDER!!!

 

LETS GOT BILLS!!!!

 

well said!

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

The Buffalo area is paying for the Giants/Jets stadium, after all it is in New York State. I just think it's time for the State to start taking care of it's other Cities.

[Albany,n.y.]

The Buffalo area is paying for the Giants/Jets stadium, after all it is in New York State. I just think it's time for the State to start taking care of it's other Cities.

I hope that was a lame attempt at sarcasm.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Albany,n.y.

[kasper13]

The new Meadowlands Stadium is in New Jersey, not NY. Eventually the Bills will need a new stadium. Can do two things. Extensive renovation of the Ralph or build a new one. Either way- no roof and no PSL's. I don't care if it's profitable, it's not my money, unless it's taxpayer funded. Even still, taxes are so high as it is, what's another billion on the pile? I'd put a 68,500 seat, open air stadium on the waterfront. Tons of unused land down there. Would also be a pretty cool spot to tailgate and conceivably help with the development of the area (which has gone almost nowhere in 50 years). In addition, it would help home field advantage. A nice, early December lake effect storm rolling in from a few feet away? Sweet.

[JohnC]

for the umpteenth time: buffalo does not need a new stadium. articles like the one posted here just continues to back that up. tweak the ralph in whatever way, but it seems like it could be serviceable for many years. do what green bay did, add a little charm, the place has a bit of history , promote that. any new owner would be at an advantage from a stadium debt standpoint.

 

The Chief's stadium in KC is going through a three year major major renovoation. Their stadium is very similar to the Ralph. The design firm is the same for both venues.

 

Building a new stadium in western NY would cost in the range of a billion dollars once land acquisition, impact statements, legal challenges etc are factored in. The public authorities certainly aren't going to pay (rightly so) and no investor is going to come up with the money for a project that is insanely infeasible.

 

As it stands, nothing can be done until there is new ownership. The current owner has no interest of investing in a project in which he will not see the benefit. There is no doubt that assuming the team stays in the region with a new owner ticket prices will go up and other charges will be added to pay off the bonds.

 

The stadium in Orchard Park is underutilized. The owner of the Redskins rented out his stadium for the BoiseST/VaTech game and many other events. Baltimore rented out its stadium for the Md/Navy game and many other events such as championship college lacrosse games. Being more aggressive in looking for new revenue streams such as rentals and selling stadium naming rights will be a necessity to keep the franchise in place for the long term.

[Mr. WEO]

Anybody who is crazy enough to privately fund a new stadium for the Bills would run the franchise into the ground. Like really, into the ground, not the mediocre teams of the last few years. There's absolutely no way a new stadium in Buffalo is profitable, regardless of who builds it.

I agree. But the article only discusses public stadiums.

 

for the umpteenth time: buffalo does not need a new stadium. articles like the one posted here just continues to back that up. tweak the ralph in whatever way, but it seems like it could be serviceable for many years. do what green bay did, add a little charm, the place has a bit of history , promote that. any new owner would be at an advantage from a stadium debt standpoint.

"A little charm"? They didn't repaint it a pretty color---that renovation cost $300 million.

 

The Buffalo area is paying for the Giants/Jets stadium, after all it is in New York State. I just think it's time for the State to start taking care of it's other Cities.

Huhwhaaaaa??

[BuffaloBill]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/sports/08stadium.html

 

 

In the current economic times the league will find it hard to get public money. However, the Snyders and Jones of the league have pushed the idea that the league can finance stadiums. Small markets like Buffalo lose either way. The only thing that will stop this is financial losses on the part of the league due to stadium building.

 

At some point the league will get a team to LA and the painful lessons of costly stadium building will be learned all over again.

[Albany,n.y.]

If stadiums were paid for the same way one would pay to construct an ordinary commercial piece of real estate, they wouldn't run into these problems. You don't take a 50 year mortgage on a building with an economic life of 25-30 years. You tie the loan to projected revenues from that building, not a separate building. It's just simple economics, no banker would give a construction loan to someone who doesn't have a projected revenue to pay for the loan and wouldn't extend the loan beyond the building's viability. If you build a stadium where the revenue pays for the debt within a reasonable time frame you don't get a demolished stadium with debt remaining.

[HARCO186]

Two reasons why Buffalo shouldn't build a new stadium:

1. The area doesn't have enough resources to bring in business to fill new luxury boxes. (How many fortune 500 companies are in Buffalo??? Sorry but facts are facts).

 

2. Too many politicians would want to have a dome, and take away home field. I don't know about how people feel, but I haven't lived in Buffalo in 22 years and people I talk with cringe when you mention Buffalo in December. That is a HUGE mental block to get over. Plus if a new stadium were to be built what would the location be? The falls area? Downtown? Again please see #1, there isn't enough top businesses to fill the luxury boxes....

[Mr. WEO]

In the current economic times the league will find it hard to get public money. However, the Snyders and Jones of the league have pushed the idea that the league can finance stadiums. Small markets like Buffalo lose either way. The only thing that will stop this is financial losses on the part of the league due to stadium building.

 

At some point the league will get a team to LA and the painful lessons of costly stadium building will be learned all over again.

Snyder bought a fairly new stadium and team without financing from the League. The NFL no longer provides financing for stadiums.

[bowery4]

The Chief's stadium in KC is going through a three year major major renovoation. Their stadium is very similar to the Ralph. The design firm is the same for both venues.

 

As it stands, nothing can be done until there is new ownership. The current owner has no interest of investing in a project in which he will not see the benefit. There is no doubt that assuming the team stays in the region with a new owner ticket prices will go up and other charges will be added to pay off the bonds. Which is why public money should be used, to keep them in the area! Tax money has been used for it's funding for that reason b4.

 

The stadium in Orchard Park is underutilized. The owner of the Redskins rented out his stadium for the BoiseST/VaTech game and many other events. Baltimore rented out its stadium for the Md/Navy game and many other events such as championship college lacrosse games. Being more aggressive in looking for new revenue streams such as rentals and selling stadium naming rights will be a necessity to keep the franchise in place for the long term.

 

I know the dome sounds like a bad idea to you young guys who like to go to games and freeze your butts off but the cold weather advantage is way over blown IMO, we don't even have it really with 3 out of 4 of the teams in our own division.

Make the damn place comfortable you can still sit outside b4 and after the games or we could just leave the roof open if it was super unpopular but the dome would help with hosting other kinds of events.

I don't know that there are that many multi uses for the Ralph even with a dome but I will throw a couple out here now;

it could be used as a convention center

with the roof open they could have more winter classic hockey games

we could even have a CFL game or two every year

big college basket ball tourney games

it just seems dumb that that thing sits out there empty all but 7 weekends a year.

If there is recovery money to help out available still, was my idea. Anyone know?

[tbonestake]

I know the dome sounds like a bad idea to you young guys who like to go to games and freeze your butts off but the cold weather advantage is way over blown IMO, we don't even have it really with 3 out of 4 of the teams in our own division.

Make the damn place comfortable you can still sit outside b4 and after the games or we could just leave the roof open if it was super unpopular but the dome would help with hosting other kinds of events.

I don't know that there are that many multi uses for the Ralph even with a dome but I will throw a couple out here now;

it could be used as a convention center

with the roof open they could have more winter classic hockey games

we could even have a CFL game or two every year

big college basket ball tourney games

it just seems dumb that that thing sits out there empty all but 7 weekends a year.

If there is recovery money to help out available still, was my idea. Anyone know?

 

I see what you're getting at there and I agree it should have more use than just football. I seem to remember the Dead playing there in the summer time way back when. Concerts seem to have died (no pun intended) down there with the introduction of the HSBC Arena. I wonder why the Ralph is not used a s much for concerts...no idea.

 

I just don't think football games should be played indoors. That is my opinion. I'm in favor of fixing up the Ralph but no dome stadium.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I think the linked article speaks more to the problem of unfunded mandates and politician's fiscal irresponsibility than making a salient argument against new stadiums. Eagles built a new stadium recently without a done in a cold weather climate, so it's possible to go topless in the north.

Edited September 8, 2010 by over 20 years of fanhood