Would we better off with Wood at center?

[todzilla]

And what are your feelings regarding Wood pulling right and throwing blocks for CJ?

 

Stronger?

 

Weaker?

 

About the same?

Eh, take it or leave it, left is where it's at. Maybe I have personal bias for Wood pulling to the left.

[sllib olaffub]

You know... this isn't that bad of an idea, IMO. Hangartner was a Guard at Carolina, and was supposed to be a tough, hard playing center to deal with these monster NT's we have in this division. In my opinion he hasn't lived up to expectations. We get blown up through the middle not too infrequently. He's not the worst, but he hasn't been as good as I hoped he would've been. What was the thinking originally? That a back-up Guard at Carolina would be able to be a major upgrade for us at Center - why? because Guard is so much harder to play than center?

What if Wood is a pro-bowl/all-pro Center, and Hangartner is a decent RT - would that be better for us than Wood being a good, above average RT, and Hangartner being an average Center?

I like Wood going to Center. I think we'd have a real strong left side then, and I think we could just pull Hangartner over to RG, or move Howard there... anyway, it's worth a try, and I'm glad they're looking at it.

[Cynical]

I think eventually we will look to start Wood at C, Levitre at RG then move Handy to G or interior line backup. I think that Wood will end up there as soon as next year but I think they want to give him a 2nd year of NFL starts so that their center (Who is suppose to be the smartest lineman) has 20+ NFL starts under his belt.

 

Bad case of Jauronism.

I get the Wood to center, and then Hangartner to G or back up.

But why Levitre to RG? He plays LG just fine. Leave him alone.

[nick in* england]

In short, no. Our interior OL is set up right and will in a short period of time be comparible to any in the NFL if it isn't already.

 

Our OTs however are mopes right now and need a ton of work in the next year and offseason to improve them. We are a legit LT away from having a very good OL.

 

I should also add that I played football for over 15 years and in that time started at least one full season at each line position. Ross Tucker has it right about the relative importance/difficulty of each OL position. To move Wood to C wastes your best OL guy at the least important position, physically.

[eball]

Anyone who has responded (or intends to respond) to the original post needs to read the Ross Tucker article linked several times throughout the thread. Most informative read I've seen on the relative value of the offensive line positions.

Edited August 24, 2010 by eball

[LynchMob23]

Article Yet Again

 

Without question the most difficult of the interior line positions, right guards are most likely to be left one-on-one with an elite inside rusher. The predominance of teams to slide their center to the left to protect the quarterback's blind side creates a greater value for the right guard position.

[BillsPhan]

Just read a little blurb about Wood getting time at center as Hangartner got a veteran day off, and it got me thinking about whether the Oline would be better off with Wood at center full time - last year I noticed that the Bills seemed to play better against a 4-3 defense as compared to a 3-4 defense, I chalked it up to the fact that they were more use to playing against a 4-3 because that is what we play but now I'm wondering if it doesn't have more to do with Hangartner at center.

 

Of course the Bills would be better off with Wood at center. That is is his natural position, and he is tough, strong and smart emough to call the plays to his fellow lineman. Unfortunately, Nix won't bring in NFL starting caliber lineman to join Wood, Levitre and Bell. So Hangartner is the lesser of two evils, evil one being allowing Wood to man the center position, and then having a bartender off the street start at Guard in Wood's place.

[Thurman#1]

Just read a little blurb about Wood getting time at center as Hangartner got a veteran day off, and it got me thinking about whether the Oline would be better off with Wood at center full time - last year I noticed that the Bills seemed to play better against a 4-3 defense as compared to a 3-4 defense, I chalked it up to the fact that they were more use to playing against a 4-3 because that is what we play but now I'm wondering if it doesn't have more to do with Hangartner at center.

 

 

This has been a constant refrain among Bills fans. I'm confident that Chan knows better than we do. If he switches Wood to center sometime in the future, I'll be happy about that move, too. Either way.

 

According to an article (I think it was by Ross Tucker) on the relative importance of each OL position, RG was the most important interior OL spot. So putting Wood there makes the most sense.

 

I suppose other OL experts may have different opinions, the Tucker article made sense.

 

Tucker on OL positions

 

 

The Tucker article is a great one, but it's not ranking the positions on importance, it's ranking them on the physical difficulty of playing the position.

 

Center is the easiest position to physically play, Tucker says (though actually, the article is a bit old at this point, and center is a lot harder to play against 3 - 4 defenses, and there are more and more of those in the league these days), but is extremely important because the center has to make the correct line calls. Tucker specifically doesn't address that in that article.

 

In terms of importance, RG is probably 4th most important. In terms of physical difficulty, 3rd most important (#1 in the interior line) against 4 - 3 defenses and probably 4th most important for 3 - 4s.

 

In short, no. Our interior OL is set up right and will in a short period of time be comparible to any in the NFL if it isn't already.

 

Our OTs however are mopes right now and need a ton of work in the next year and offseason to improve them. We are a legit LT away from having a very good OL.

 

I should also add that I played football for over 15 years and in that time started at least one full season at each line position. Ross Tucker has it right about the relative importance/difficulty of each OL position. To move Wood to C wastes your best OL guy at the least important position, physically.

 

 

 

Nick, I love your optimism, but we're an LT, an RT and maybe a center (or RG is Wood moves to center, though if that happens, Calloway might fill the hole, at RG, at least eventually) away from having a very good OL.

 

I think Hangartner will look better as his guards get better and more experienced, though I'm not sure how much better. But at RT, Cornell Green is a stopgap and Meredith is a maybe-someday-maybe-not.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Thurman#1

[The Senator]

Funny how the memory plays tricks. I guess I was thinking that because Levite was a left tackle in college…

No, it's the booze.

[JPS]

If Wood is better than Hangartner, I want him in a position to help out our crappy OTs....and that's at RG. And, as he's coming off a major injury, I am sure the thought of moving him anywhere is secondary o the thought of just getting back on the field.

[Guest dog14787]

This has been a constant refrain among Bills fans. I'm confident that Chan knows better than we do. If he switches Wood to center sometime in the future, I'll be happy about that move, too. Either way.

 

 

 

 

The Tucker article is a great one, but it's not ranking the positions on importance, it's ranking them on the physical difficulty of playing the position.

 

Center is the easiest position to physically play, Tucker says (though actually, the article is a bit old at this point, and center is a lot harder to play against 3 - 4 defenses, and there are more and more of those in the league these days), but is extremely important because the center has to make the correct line calls. Tucker specifically doesn't address that in that article.

 

In terms of importance, RG is probably 4th most important. In terms of physical difficulty, 3rd most important (#1 in the interior line) against 4 - 3 defenses and probably 4th most important for 3 - 4s.

 

 

 

 

 

Nick, I love your optimism, but we're an LT, an RT and maybe a center (or RG is Wood moves to center, though if that happens, Calloway might fill the hole, at RG, at least eventually) away from having a very good OL.

 

I think Hangartner will look better as his guards get better and more experienced, though I'm not sure how much better. But at RT, Cornell Green is a stopgap and Meredith is a maybe-someday-maybe-not.

 

 

I'm starting to get a little confidence in our current O-line myself personally,

 

Plus we do have Wang coming back from injury and I really like this Wang fella as a possible future starting LT for the Buffalo Bills,

 

The interior of the Bills O-line was showing glimpses of what its capable of against the Colts, especially in the running game. Eric Wood is a Bull of a man and anchors what could one day be the best running game/teams in the league in my opinion.

 

Chan Gailey and the Buffalo Bills are for real,

 

 

I Billieve...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Nick, I love your optimism, but we're an LT, an RT and maybe a center (or RG is Wood moves to center, though if that happens, Calloway might fill the hole, at RG, at least eventually) away from having a very good OL.

 

I think Hangartner will look better as his guards get better and more experienced, though I'm not sure how much better. But at RT, Cornell Green is a stopgap and Meredith is a maybe-someday-maybe-not.

I'm starting to get a little confidence in our current O-line myself personally,

 

Plus we do have Wang coming back from injury and I really like this Wang fella as a possible future starting LT for the Buffalo Bills,

 

The interior of the Bills O-line was showing glimpses of what its capable of against the Colts, especially in the running game. Eric Wood is a Bull of a man and anchors what could one day be the best running game/teams in the league in my opinion.

 

Chan Gailey and the Buffalo Bills are for real,

 

 

I Billieve...

As is often the case, the truth is somewhere between the two poles of perception.

 

The Bills were very effective running the ball last year considering they had almost no passing attack.

 

During the broadcast of the Bills-Colts, Steve Tasker mentioned that the Bills were #1 in the NFL in this particular stat: Highest percentage of runs gaining at least four yards.

 

Nearly 50% of the Bills rushing attempts gained at least four yards. We will again be a good running team this year.

 

The Bills are probably solid at three of five positions (interior line). They are probably adequate at one (right tackle) and it's not clear what they have at left tackle. That position can't yet be graded.

 

Where the Bills are lacking O-line-wise is in depth. In addition, they need to prove they can be effective in pass protection. But without injuries and with some good young talent which is still uptrending, this line can easily be better than many doom and gloomers are expecting.

 

The Jets had the consensus top O-line last year with big name players across the board (two free agents, 3 homegrown). The Giants were, for about two years, the reigning top O-line in football before age and injuries knocked them down. The Giants were largely a collection of no names and overachievers.

 

Because of the volatility caused by free agency, we very rarely see great offensive lines anymore like the Hogs. Typically nowadays, players don't stay in one place long enough for a unit to become that cohesive. It is a strong consensus that this is not an era of great offensive lines. With the exception of the Giants, none of the recent Super Bowl winners have had great offensive lines.

 

Relative to this time in history, the Bills O-line should at least be average this year and quite possible better than that.

 

GO COCKBLOCKERS!!!

[vincec]

With all respect to Mr. Tucker, who I'm sure knows a lot more about o-line play than me, it seems that the best running teams have dominating centers. Nick Mangold with the Jets, Kevin Mawae with the Titans, Ryan Kalil with the Panthers and even historically, I think of the Steelers with Dermonti Dawson and the the Oilers with Bruce Matthews. I agree though, that the interior of the Bills OL is the least of their problems.

[Guest dog14787]

As is often the case, the truth is somewhere between the two poles of perception.

 

The Bills were very effective running the ball last year considering they had almost no passing attack.

 

During the broadcast of the Bills-Colts, Steve Tasker mentioned that the Bills were #1 in the NFL in this particular stat: Highest percentage of runs gaining at least four yards.

 

Nearly 50% of the Bills rushing attempts gained at least four yards. We will again be a good running team this year.

 

The Bills are probably solid at three of five positions (interior line). They are probably adequate at one (right tackle) and it's not clear what they have at left tackle. That position can't yet be graded.

 

Where the Bills are lacking O-line-wise is in depth. In addition, they need to prove they can be effective in pass protection. But without injuries and with some good young talent which is still uptrending, this line can easily be better than many doom and gloomers are expecting.

 

The Jets had the consensus top O-line last year with big name players across the board (two free agents, 3 homegrown). The Giants were, for about two years, the reigning top O-line in football before age and injuries knocked them down. The Giants were largely a collection of no names and overachievers.

 

Because of the volatility caused by free agency, we very rarely see great offensive lines anymore like the Hogs. Typically nowadays, players don't stay in one place long enough for a unit to become that cohesive. It is a strong consensus that this is not an era of great offensive lines. With the exception of the Giants, none of the recent Super Bowl winners have had great offensive lines.

 

Relative to this time in history, the Bills O-line should at least be average this year and quite possible better than that.

 

GO COCKBLOCKERS!!!

 

 

Great post San Jose and I agree, we lack quality depth and experience

[Thoner7]

I think Wood is the better player, and I think that C being the more important position, our line would be better as a whole with Wood at C and Hang at RG. Wood is stronger and more physical, and considering we go agaisnt some of the best NT in the league in the AFC East I think he would be a better anchor in the center. Maybe the hang up is the line calls which Wood has little experience with?

 

As big of a pipe dream as it is, I like the idea of trading a 2nd for Mankins that was brought up in another thread, and really solidifying our interior.

[Mr. WEO]

According to an article (I think it was by Ross Tucker) on the relative importance of each OL position, RG was the most important interior OL spot. So putting Wood there makes the most sense.

 

I suppose other OL experts may have different opinions, the Tucker article made sense.

 

Tucker on OL positions

Wasn't Ross Tucker a RG?

[Thoner7]

Article Yet Again

 

great read, and now the Bills FO logic on Why Wood is at RG and Hangman at C makes more sense to me. I would have thought C would be more important, but I will take an NFL vets word at it.

 

Also, that is another reason I would have loved to land Bulaga. I think he could be a vrey good LT, but at RT, he could be perennial PB material. Having a mainstay at RT would allow the Bills to double the RE most plays, or at least chip with a RB or TE to that side 100% of the time. Thus getting better production from the bums we have.

[K-9]

Actually, Eric Wood plays right guard.

 

And as an article and discussion have pointed out in the last year here, left guard is actually considered a more vital position because of the teamwork that player must have in containing the opponents top pass rusher who lines up on that side.

 

Due to stunts, the offensive left tackle and guard have to work very well as a team.

 

So Eric Wood, is actually playing the least important position on the offensive line.

 

Conventionally you would use your best edge pass blocker at left tackle and your best interior lineman at center or left guard.

 

Levitre will do a fine job at left guard so I agree with the masses here that believe it's only a matter of time before Eric Wood is switched to center.

 

Of course I meant RG. Brain cramp on my part. And I agree with most of your post. It's only a matter of time until we get a RG that can hold his own and Wood makes the permanent move to center. I would just be surprised if it's sooner than later because, regardless of "importance" of position on the OL, they are, as a unit, ALL important and will only be as strong as it's weakest link. That would be RG if Wood moves now. But who knows? Perhaps the coaches feel they have someone ready to go. I also feel the use of more zone blocking schemes will help as well.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Wasn't Ross Tucker a RG?

Yes. Ross actually played both guard positions and center but spent most of his career at right guard.

 

Have you seen his latest article?

 

It's titled, "Why Princeton is a much better school than Harvard or Yale."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reminds me of an old joke:

 

Did you hear Salman Rushdie (Satanic Verses) has a new book? It's called "Buddha you Fat F*ck"

[The Dean]

great read, and now the Bills FO logic on Why Wood is at RG and Hangman at C makes more sense to me. I would have thought C would be more important, but I will take an NFL vets word at it.

 

 

 

Based on my reading of that article, Tucker (and the pros he referenced )were talking about the physically difficulty of playing the various line positions, NOT their importance. I skimmed the article, so if he mentions the importance somewhere I apologize, but he mentioned physical difficulty on many occasions.

 

I have to assume that as with most things in life, what is difficult varies by individual. I have no problem with Tucker saying the consensus is that Center is the physically easiest position to play on the OL, but that doesn't mean it is for every offensive lineman. And it says nothing, really about importance.

 

Tucker was a "can do" kind of guy and he seems like a guy who is easy to root for. But he was far from a very physically talented lineman. What was tough for him might be very different than what is tough for a great athlete.

 

Like many here, I think Wood ends up at center at some time. But I think it's crazy talk to suggest they blow up the line and move he and Hangartner at this point in time. If they added some major talent that made it worthwhile, that would be another story. Personally I think having a health Wood on one side and Levitre on the other should help Hangartner quite a bit.