Jesus...Jason Smith OT

[John from Riverside]

Watchin NFL network rams vs vikes

 

Jason Smith....supposed to be their LT of the future....SECOND OVERALL PICK

 

30 million GUARANTEED MONEY

 

BACKUP RIGHT TACKLE in his SECOND year

 

Holy @*$&$

[crazyDingo]

Something like that happens to every team from time to time, I guess. Rookie salary cap makes sense.

[Thurman#1]

He's coming back from a stress fracture.

 

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/pr...127992bc8b.html

[Thoner7]

Thats what scares me about OUR SCOUTING DEPARTMENT

[San Jose Bills Fan]

He's coming back from a stress fracture.

 

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/pr...127992bc8b.html

Regardless, Jason Smith has been a disappointment so far.

 

In fact, all three consensus top tackles from the 2009 draft class, Jason Smith (2nd overall), Andre Smith (6th overall), and Eugene Monroe (8th overall) have been disappointments. Michael Oher (23rd) played solidly at right tackle last year but was shaky as a left tackle.

 

In the 2008 draft, eight tackles were taken in the first round.

 

First overall pick, Jake Long has been excellent. Ryan Clady (12th overall and one pick after Leodis McKelvin) has performed very well.

 

Chris Williams (14th) is improving after playing right tackle his rookie year, Branden Albert (15th) had a strong rookie season but regressed last year, Gosder Cherilus (17th) will probably start at right tackle for the Lions, Jeff Otah (19th) is also a right tackle who has battled injuries, Sam Baker (21st) is the starting left tackle for the Falcons, and Duane Brown (26th) is the starting left tackle for the Houston Texans.

 

Of the 12 first round tackles from 2008 and 2009, seven have more or less established themselves as starters, and the rest are still struggling to do so.

 

Five of them are now right tackles.

 

Two of them, Jake Long and Ryan Clady have made the Pro Bowl.

[Skoobydum]

Drafting for the line can get real tricky, Mike Williams was the Bills worst pick ever IMO.

[Thurman#1]

Regardless, Jason Smith has been a disappointment so far.

 

In fact, all three consensus top tackles from the 2009 draft class, Jason Smith (2nd overall), Andre Smith (6th overall), and Eugene Monroe (8th overall) have been disappointments. Michael Oher (23rd) played solidly at right tackle last year but was shaky as a left tackle.

 

In the 2008 draft, eight tackles were taken in the first round.

 

First overall pick, Jake Long has been excellent. Ryan Clady (12th overall and one pick after Leodis McKelvin) has performed very well.

 

Chris Williams (14th) is improving after playing right tackle his rookie year, Branden Albert (15th) had a strong rookie season but regressed last year, Gosder Cherilus (17th) will probably start at right tackle for the Lions, Jeff Otah (19th) is also a right tackle who has battled injuries, Sam Baker (21st) is the starting left tackle for the Falcons, and Duane Brown (26th) is the starting left tackle for the Houston Texans.

 

Of the 12 first round tackles from 2008 and 2009, seven have more or less established themselves as starters, and the rest are still struggling to do so.

 

Five of them are now right tackles.

 

Two of them, Jake Long and Ryan Clady have made the Pro Bowl.

 

 

 

Actually, Eugene Monroe has been a real success by any measure. In no way was he a disappointment. He had a crappy first game, and after that had a positive cumulative score for the remaining 15 games of the season (which means he was above average) at LT in his rookie year, according to PFF.

 

That, by any measure is a real success, for a guy to have one bad game and then play above average for the rest of the year as a rookie, at LT.

 

Jason Smith played pretty reasonably at RT last year, and is the starter at LT this year, though he's recovering from an injury right now. But he looks like he might be a good pick, too.

 

Andre is another story, as he has problems staying in shape, which was the rap on him before the draft.

[Thoner7]

Regardless, Jason Smith has been a disappointment so far.

 

In fact, all three consensus top tackles from the 2009 draft class, Jason Smith (2nd overall), Andre Smith (6th overall), and Eugene Monroe (8th overall) have been disappointments. Michael Oher (23rd) played solidly at right tackle last year but was shaky as a left tackle.

 

In the 2008 draft, eight tackles were taken in the first round.

 

First overall pick, Jake Long has been excellent. Ryan Clady (12th overall and one pick after Leodis McKelvin) has performed very well.

 

Chris Williams (14th) is improving after playing right tackle his rookie year, Branden Albert (15th) had a strong rookie season but regressed last year, Gosder Cherilus (17th) will probably start at right tackle for the Lions, Jeff Otah (19th) is also a right tackle who has battled injuries, Sam Baker (21st) is the starting left tackle for the Falcons, and Duane Brown (26th) is the starting left tackle for the Houston Texans.

 

Of the 12 first round tackles from 2008 and 2009, seven have more or less established themselves as starters, and the rest are still struggling to do so.

 

Five of them are now right tackles.

 

Two of them, Jake Long and Ryan Clady have made the Pro Bowl.

 

very good info Jose, but a lot of that I attribute to poor scouting. I never saw a game of Jason Smith in college so I cant say anythign about him. But Andre Smith didnt work out and left the combine. He CELARLY showed prior to the draft he was a huge ? and not worth a top 20 pick. People on this board were slotting him as a G or RT at most. Eugune Monroe was literally dominated from start to finish by Michael JOhnson of GT who was graded out as a 3rd round pick. If he cant handle a 3rd round talent how is he going to handle a PB DE? He also hasnt faired too poorly though Jose. Michael Oher on the other hand was a 4 year starter in teh SEC and performed extremely well. Going into the draft I have a hard time seeing the logic of having Monroe or Smith as a higher rated player. J. Smith as I said I never saw so who knows. But I asked myself these questions going into the draft and was confused as to how Oher was teh last T taken.

[Benjamin Barker]

This thread must have been started by Tom Modrak.

[Bob in STL]

Regardless, Jason Smith has been a disappointment so far.

 

In fact, all three consensus top tackles from the 2009 draft class, Jason Smith (2nd overall), Andre Smith (6th overall), and Eugene Monroe (8th overall) have been disappointments. Michael Oher (23rd) played solidly at right tackle last year but was shaky as a left tackle.

 

In the 2008 draft, eight tackles were taken in the first round.

 

First overall pick, Jake Long has been excellent. Ryan Clady (12th overall and one pick after Leodis McKelvin) has performed very well.

 

Chris Williams (14th) is improving after playing right tackle his rookie year, Branden Albert (15th) had a strong rookie season but regressed last year, Gosder Cherilus (17th) will probably start at right tackle for the Lions, Jeff Otah (19th) is also a right tackle who has battled injuries, Sam Baker (21st) is the starting left tackle for the Falcons, and Duane Brown (26th) is the starting left tackle for the Houston Texans.

 

Of the 12 first round tackles from 2008 and 2009, seven have more or less established themselves as starters, and the rest are still struggling to do so.

 

Five of them are now right tackles.

 

Two of them, Jake Long and Ryan Clady have made the Pro Bowl.

 

Ecellent info provided.

 

The fact remains your best rookies are last years rookies (Marvism).

 

The salary cap and free agency have forced unready rookies into action must faster than in the past. Expectations for 1st round 1 draft picks are sky high and very often unrealistic.

[BuffaloBill]

Something like that happens to every team from time to time, I guess. Rookie salary cap makes sense.

 

 

It is beyond me why owners and players can't come to agreement on a rookie cap. It is absurd that guys get fat guarantee money having never played a down of NFL ball. I don't begrudge that someone on the roster should get the dollars just not an unproven rookie.

[Cash]

It is beyond me why owners and players can't come to agreement on a rookie cap. It is absurd that guys get fat guarantee money having never played a down of NFL ball. I don't begrudge that someone on the roster should get the dollars just not an unproven rookie.

 

I hate it too, but the players' association likes it, because the top 5 picks wind up driving salaries higher because they set the market. Peyton Manning's new deal is going to have to be richer than Sam Bradford's.

[BillsVet]

This thread must have been started by Tom Modrak.

 

I love how people demonstrate that top 5 picks are risky by using a minority of the picks. And for every bad LT, there's a franchise guy who locks people down like Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, or Orlando Pace.

 

In life there are always risks. People who enjoy sitting on the sidelines and not risking anything typically don't ever succeed to the level they'd like.

 

Perhaps we should trade our soon-to-be top 5 picks for about 3 seconds. Then we won't feel bad if something good doesn't happen. Then again, it's fit it real well because we have absolutely zero impact players.

[John from Riverside]

I love how people demonstrate that top 5 picks are risky by using a minority of the picks. And for every bad LT, there's a franchise guy who locks people down like Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, or Orlando Pace.

 

In life there are always risks. People who enjoy sitting on the sidelines and not risking anything typically don't ever succeed to the level they'd like.

 

Perhaps we should trade our soon-to-be top 5 picks for about 3 seconds. Then we won't feel bad if something good doesn't happen. Then again, it's fit it real well because we have absolutely zero impact players.

 

I was not saying that we should not take a chance on a OT or even that we should trade the pick.....

 

Only pointing out that when it DOESN"T pan out it hurts....bad.

 

I personally hope our top 5 pick this next year goes on a QB or OT

[Superb Owl]

Thats what scares me about OUR SCOUTING DEPARTMENT

On the videos around draft time, they don't come off as the brightest bunch

[Sisyphean Bills]

I was not saying that we should not take a chance on a OT or even that we should trade the pick.....

 

Only pointing out that when it DOESN"T pan out it hurts....bad.

 

I personally hope our top 5 pick this next year goes on a QB or OT

That's true regardless of position, is it not? A team doesn't get better by using a bad season to draft a bust. It just makes the down cycle longer as seasons tick by and busts wash out to be replaced by someone else.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Jason Smith played pretty reasonably at RT last year, and is the starter at LT this year, though he's recovering from an injury right now. But he looks like he might be a good pick, too.

I had read very recently that Jason Smith is playing at right tackle again this year. The Rams drafted Rodger Saffold and had him pencilled in as the left tackle until he was injured this weekend. The Rams assuredly didn't draft Jason Smith 2nd overall to be their right tackle. Just as they didn't draft Alex Barron 19th overall to be an ex-Ram.

 

I love how people demonstrate that top 5 picks are risky by using a minority of the picks.

 

And for every bad LT, there's a franchise guy who locks people down like Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, or Orlando Pace.

A minority of picks? I haven't done the studies but every year there are top five players who will never live up to being one of the top five players from their draft class, so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

The fact that so few teams want picks in the top five says it all.

 

Sure those picks have to be paid ridiculous money but if they were truly "can't miss" players, teams wouldn't mind paying those exorbitant contracts. In other words, you would never mind paying Jason Smith what he got if you knew he was gonna be the next Orlando Pace. So again, it's not the money which makes a top five pick undesirable…it's the fact that said pick has a good chance of never living up to his draft status.

 

As for your second point, there are a total of 16 offensive tackles in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The NFL has been in existence for 90 years. You named one player already in the HOF (Munoz) and two that are slam dunk (and possible first ballot) HOF's.

 

So what you seemed to be saying is not true. There are not (among top five picks) an equal number of Hall of Famers for every one that busts.

[sharper802]

I love how people demonstrate that top 5 picks are risky by using a minority of the picks. And for every bad LT, there's a franchise guy who locks people down like Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, or Orlando Pace.

 

In life there are always risks. People who enjoy sitting on the sidelines and not risking anything typically don't ever succeed to the level they'd like.

 

Perhaps we should trade our soon-to-be top 5 picks for about 3 seconds. Then we won't feel bad if something good doesn't happen. Then again, it's fit it real well because we have absolutely zero impact players.

Adjusting for your hyperbole, that is pretty close to what the Patriots do every year with the exception of drafting Mayo. But why do what they do??

[sharper802]

That's true regardless of position, is it not? A team doesn't get better by using a bad season to draft a bust. It just makes the down cycle longer as seasons tick by and busts wash out to be replaced by someone else.

Not necessarily. A LT can be moved to RT or a tackle can be moved to guard(Leonard Davis is the best example) and you can still get a quality player. Maybe they aren't the marquee LT the team needed but a quality starter on the OL is still a plus. A CB can be moved to Safety. WR/RB/CB's can be dangerous return men. The major exception is QB. They can't do anything else for your team, excpet of course walk on water in Tebow's case. And as a QB they get paid more than their draft slot would normally dictate. Lat year Sanchez was pick #5 and was paid $10 million more than pick number 6 an OT, $3 million more than pick no. 3, a DE, and only $1.75 million less than pick no. 2 an OT.

[Thurman#1]

I had read very recently that Jason Smith is playing at right tackle again this year. The Rams drafted Rodger Saffold and had him pencilled in as the left tackle until he was injured this weekend. The Rams assuredly didn't draft Jason Smith 2nd overall to be their right tackle. Just as they didn't draft Alex Barron 19th overall to be an ex-Ram.

 

 

My understanding was that it was Smith's broken toe and recovery from it that has had Saffold at first-string LT. But I haven't kept up with the situation all that well.

 

No question, though, that Eugene Monroe is a success. Sebastian Vollmer, a 2nd rounder last year, is an even bigger success, one of the best in the league in his first year, though he was a second-rounder, not a first-rounder.

 

 

 

The fact that so few teams want picks in the top five says it all.

 

Sure those picks have to be paid ridiculous money but if they were truly "can't miss" players, teams wouldn't mind paying those exorbitant contracts. In other words, you would never mind paying Jason Smith what he got if you knew he was gonna be the next Orlando Pace. So again, it's not the money which makes a top five pick undesirable…it's the fact that said pick has a good chance of never living up to his draft status.

 

 

 

 

People want picks in the top five. Don't kid yourself. If they didn't, we'd see teams not taking their picks up to the rostrum when time ran out. And maybe the next team doing the same. We'd see teams trading down even if they got bad deals for the trade. It doesn't happen. Because teams still value high picks.

 

You're right, there's no such thing as a "can't miss" player. Everyone can miss, especially when injuries are thrown into the equation. But top-five picks are still valuable and treated as such because of one simple reason. The higher you go, the lower the risk of failure. Yes, there's always that risk, it can never be eliminated.

 

But it's just a fact that the percentage of failures is lowest in the top five, higher in the top ten, higher yet in the first round, higher yet in the second, and it just keeps getting higher the further away from #1 that you get. QBs might twist that stat a bit because they often go so high, and because so few are really good. But the same is true of QBs, those picked higher succeed at a higher rate than those picked later.

[tennesseeboy]

Watchin NFL network rams vs vikes

 

Jason Smith....supposed to be their LT of the future....SECOND OVERALL PICK

 

30 million GUARANTEED MONEY

 

BACKUP RIGHT TACKLE in his SECOND year

 

Holy @*$&$

Ryan Leaf

Jamarcus Russell

A host of others. Being a top five pick doesn't gaurantee success.

[Doc]

No question, though, that Eugene Monroe is a success. Sebastian Vollmer, a 2nd rounder last year, is an even bigger success, one of the best in the league in his first year, though he was a second-rounder, not a first-rounder.

Again Thurm, Monroe still has a lot to prove. He was benched mid-season last year and for some reason missed the pre-season game the other night. And Vollmer is starting at RT for the Pats instead of LT, where they could have dumped Light and his $4.5M salary.

 

If anything, 2008 was the year to draft a LT. But the Bills still had Peters (and Walker and Butler).

[Sisyphean Bills]

Not necessarily. A LT can be moved to RT or a tackle can be moved to guard(Leonard Davis is the best example) and you can still get a quality player. Maybe they aren't the marquee LT the team needed but a quality starter on the OL is still a plus. A CB can be moved to Safety. WR/RB/CB's can be dangerous return men. The major exception is QB. They can't do anything else for your team, excpet of course walk on water in Tebow's case. And as a QB they get paid more than their draft slot would normally dictate. Lat year Sanchez was pick #5 and was paid $10 million more than pick number 6 an OT, $3 million more than pick no. 3, a DE, and only $1.75 million less than pick no. 2 an OT.

I see your point.

 

I was taking the term "bust" more literally, I guess. If the guy can't play at all, paying him a huge chunk of your cap and screwing around with trying him at a variety of positions only achieves to stall a team from getting better and prolong the agony of defeat. See Mike Williams: if he was what they thought he was, he should be a top 16 LT, a team leader, and anchoring our OL as I type this (albeit on the downside of a solid career where he reached All-Pro accolades, etc.). Contrastingly, I won't say Whitner is a bust, but I also don't think he was the right pick to be the cornerstone to build the Jauron era Bills upon.

[Steely Dan]

It is beyond me why owners and players can't come to agreement on a rookie cap. It is absurd that guys get fat guarantee money having never played a down of NFL ball. I don't begrudge that someone on the roster should get the dollars just not an unproven rookie.

 

I'm 90% sure there will be a rookie cap in the new CBA

 

I hate it too, but the players' association likes it, because the top 5 picks wind up driving salaries higher because they set the market. Peyton Manning's new deal is going to have to be richer than Sam Bradford's.

 

I'm not so sure about that. The bar can be set higher and faster by using money saved to sign veterans. This is just an example, the money cited probably isn't exactly accurate, but Albert Haynesworth might have gotten $150,000,000.

 

I use Haynesworth as an example because he's the most recent $100,000,0000 player who's not a QB I can think of. His play since the contract has nothing to do with my example.

 

This is good for the game because it rewards good play and that's good for both the union and NFL. It also means the next guy to negotiate a contract has a $50,000,000 higher ceiling to negotiate from. JMO

 

The NFL wants it more than the union does so I think they'll be coy and use it as a negotiating tool but I fully expect one to come out of the bargaining. Also, IMO, you'll see guaranteed contracts coming out of this.