Edwards hitting on the deep ball?

[Nanker]

We've suddenly got the best game planner and Offensive minded coach since Marchibroda left. People still want to think the scum that were coaching the last ten years gave us a respectable chance at winning and that Chan will have zero impact on how well the offense will perform. Did you ever think that if he were here during "The Drought" that things would have been a lot better WWT the O?

 

Christ, talk about a "lack of talented players" during that span, well, news flash: We've had an absolute dearth of talent in coaching since Wade got the boot. That is over. O-V-E-R!

 

One other thing. Chan - unlike the last three HCs we've had - understands the importance of divisional rivalries.

When Williams got here - he seemed more pumped to go against the AFCS than to do job #1 - BEAT MIAMI.

Likewise Kevin Costner - acted like it made no difference who the opponent was.

Dickless Jauron - acted like he didn't know who the opponent was.

 

That said, I'll be happy with an 8-8 season this year - as long as we go 6-0 in the division.

[Dr. K]

Look.............I couldn't care less about the deep ball. I know Trent can make the deep throws. We all know he can make that throw.

 

The throws he can't make..........or is at least not willing to make, are the throws between 15-30 yards down the middle of the field.

 

In this league, good teams pick up chunks of yardage on a regular basis down the middle of the field. With Edwards, it is either a 5 yard dump off (happens 99% of the time) or a bomb 50 yards down the field. There is not much in between.

 

To be a successful QB in this league, you MUST be able to work 15-25 yards down the field on a fairly regular basis. Until we get a QB that can, or is willing to do this, we will continue to struggle.

 

For whatever reason, I don't remember him (or any other Bills QB in a long time) making many of the type of throws you describe.

 

I don't know what to think about Edwards. At times, as in the 5-1 start a few years ago, he looked sharp and in command. But since then there have been times it has been almost physically painful to watch his indecision and ineffectuality.

[nateodoms'bff]

For whatever reason, I don't remember him (or any other Bills QB in a long time) making many of the type of throws you describe.

 

I don't know what to think about Edwards. At times, as in the 5-1 start a few years ago, he looked sharp and in command. But since then there have been times it has been almost physically painful to watch his indecision and ineffectuality.

 

 

The reason you dont remember is because the last one that did it was Jim Kelly.

 

Like I said before, the only way that Trent Edwards thrives in this new offense if it does not rely on him getting the ball out quickly (not his delivery or his release point which is mechanical not a decision making process) or if it does not rely on him getting the ball between defenders in the middle of the field. If this offense relies on the tight ends and the check down and the occasional deep ball to score points quickly, solidified with a constant run attack, then yes Trent Edwards could have a Dilfer like season. But to think that this kid is going to light it up just because he threw two awkward deep passes in OTA's is a little premature.

 

I dont need to watch his "highlights" because when the game is being played, Trent Edwards has shown that he cannot get the job done. If he is the starter, I hope he gets the job done, and I will cheer him on, but realistically I dont see that happening.

[DarthICE]

We've suddenly got the best game planner and Offensive minded coach since Marchibroda left. People still want to think the scum that were coaching the last ten years gave us a respectable chance at winning and that Chan will have zero impact on how well the offense will perform. Did you ever think that if he were here during "The Drought" that things would have been a lot better WWT the O?

 

Christ, talk about a "lack of talented players" during that span, well, news flash: We've had an absolute dearth of talent in coaching since Wade got the boot. That is over. O-V-E-R!

 

One other thing. Chan - unlike the last three HCs we've had - understands the importance of divisional rivalries.

When Williams got here - he seemed more pumped to go against the AFCS than to do job #1 - BEAT MIAMI.

Likewise Kevin Costner - acted like it made no difference who the opponent was.

Dickless Jauron - acted like he didn't know who the opponent was.

 

That said, I'll be happy with an 8-8 season this year - as long as we go 6-0 in the division.

 

Even the best coach in history can't polish turds. We better hope Brohm is the answer at QB or we are going to need to draft one next year

[Happy Days Lois & Clark]

What else he really needs to do is hit 15-20 yard routes down the middle of the field

[BADOLBILZ]

The reason you dont remember is because the last one that did it was Jim Kelly.

 

Rob Johnson and Drew Bledsoe could make every throw. With ease. They lacked in other areas. Johnson did not like to check down. This allowed defenses to try some interesting formations in the secondary. Miami used to play both of their safeties deep and very wide, and then bring pressure up the middle. His first look was always sideline and he would invariably end up getting sacked or scrambling to one side of the field and essentially cutting his options in half. The man simply couldn't check it down and everybody knew it.

 

Trent can check it down like nobody's business. He is the bizarro Rob Johnson. He can't make the deep throws, teams know it and they squat on the shorter routes which makes Trent even more tentative and causes him to check down. Some people act like Trent just fell off the earth after he had that great start a couple seasons ago. Teams adapted. They decided not to let him beat them with his strength and he's been neutralized ever since. That's not likely to change unless Trent gets better at that deep ball or becomes willing and able to throw with anticipation. Rob Johnson and Drew Bledsoe couldn't change. JP Losman couldn't change his game. There is no reason to believe Trent can change either.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Look.............I couldn't care less about the deep ball. I know Trent can make the deep throws. We all know he can make that throw.

 

The throws he can't make..........or is at least not willing to make, are the throws between 15-30 yards down the middle of the field.

 

In this league, good teams pick up chunks of yardage on a regular basis down the middle of the field. With Edwards, it is either a 5 yard dump off (happens 99% of the time) or a bomb 50 yards down the field. There is not much in between.

 

To be a successful QB in this league, you MUST be able to work 15-25 yards down the field on a fairly regular basis. Until we get a QB that can, or is willing to do this, we will continue to struggle.

 

Amen and amen; this is why I nominated you to the TSW Hall of Fame.

 

I want to see the guy make a 15-yard throw in the middle of the field, at least once, and then after that, on a consistent basis.

 

He can throw a 3-yard dump down (not well, but good enough), and he can throw a 40-yard bomb (not well, but good enough). It's the other throws that are key.

[Dr. K]

Rob Johnson and Drew Bledsoe could make every throw. With ease. They lacked in other areas. Johnson did not like to check down. This allowed defenses to try some interesting formations in the secondary. Miami used to play both of their safeties deep and very wide, and then bring pressure up the middle. His first look was always sideline and he would invariably end up getting sacked or scrambling to one side of the field and essentially cutting his options in half. The man simply couldn't check it down and everybody knew it.

 

Trent can check it down like nobody's business. He is the bizarro Rob Johnson. He can't make the deep throws, teams know it and they squat on the shorter routes which makes Trent even more tentative and causes him to check down. Some people act like Trent just fell off the earth after he had that great start a couple seasons ago. Teams adapted. They decided not to let him beat them with his strength and he's been neutralized ever since. That's not likely to change unless Trent gets better at that deep ball or becomes willing and able to throw with anticipation. Rob Johnson and Drew Bledsoe couldn't change. JP Losman couldn't change his game. There is no reason to believe Trent can change either.

 

+1

 

Good post. The problem in the last decade is that we've had QBs who had some real skills, but nobody (with the possible exception of Bledsoe) who were complete QBs, who when thwarted in the area of their greatest strength could switch to a different attack and succeed. The way Peyton Manning, for instance, does habitually.

[sllib olaffub]

Rob Johnson and Drew Bledsoe could make every throw. With ease. They lacked in other areas. Johnson did not like to check down. This allowed defenses to try some interesting formations in the secondary. Miami used to play both of their safeties deep and very wide, and then bring pressure up the middle. His first look was always sideline and he would invariably end up getting sacked or scrambling to one side of the field and essentially cutting his options in half. The man simply couldn't check it down and everybody knew it.

 

Trent can check it down like nobody's business. He is the bizarro Rob Johnson. He can't make the deep throws, teams know it and they squat on the shorter routes which makes Trent even more tentative and causes him to check down. Some people act like Trent just fell off the earth after he had that great start a couple seasons ago. Teams adapted. They decided not to let him beat them with his strength and he's been neutralized ever since. That's not likely to change unless Trent gets better at that deep ball or becomes willing and able to throw with anticipation. Rob Johnson and Drew Bledsoe couldn't change. JP Losman couldn't change his game. There is no reason to believe Trent can change either.

 

 

Good point. I think that really sums up a lot. The great QB's - Payton, Brady, Brees - they are very dynamic; when the ball is snapped they see the field, and even if a play designed to go to a certain guy is called, if another guy is open they can see it and put the ball where it needs to go. That ability to see the recievers, to read the defense, and to make the instant decision - to have that decisiveness - has been lacking since Bledsoe, Kelly, and Flutie. Flutie was a great example of that talent - just taking what the defense gave him, and if need be, scrambling to give the recievers an extra second or two to get open.

With Trent, you can tell if his guy is covered he freezes, then looks to the screen, or merely throws it away. He doesn't appear to be scanning the whole field, nor does he appear willing to throw it to certain areas of the field.

So, I sure hope we have a QB on the roster who has that quick, dynamic ability. If Trent turns it around - if it was his coaching and O-line play, then I'll be real happy. But, as it is, I'm doubtful he has the ability to do that.

On the bright side, statistically, at least, we're due for a good QB; probability more or less indicates that our next guy will be a good one

[sven233]

Amen and amen; this is why I nominated you to the TSW Hall of Fame.

 

I want to see the guy make a 15-yard throw in the middle of the field, at least once, and then after that, on a consistent basis.

 

He can throw a 3-yard dump down (not well, but good enough), and he can throw a 40-yard bomb (not well, but good enough). It's the other throws that are key.

 

And this is why I deserve to be in the Hall of Fame! I may not post much, but when I do, I always try to bring a great point! HA!

 

Anyway, in all seriousness, the 15-20 yard throws are the key to success in the NFL. If you don't have a QB that can hit that play on a fairly regular basis, you will struggle to score points. You have to keep the defense honest. If you are basically giving them the entire middle of the field, the defense has a major advantage. You have to keep the guessing and keep them spread out on defense. You have to be able to work the entire field to be successful.

[Rockinon]

And this is why I deserve to be in the Hall of Fame! I may not post much, but when I do, I always try to bring a great point! HA!

 

Anyway, in all seriousness, the 15-20 yard throws are the key to success in the NFL. If you don't have a QB that can hit that play on a fairly regular basis, you will struggle to score points. You have to keep the defense honest. If you are basically giving them the entire middle of the field, the defense has a major advantage. You have to keep the guessing and keep them spread out on defense. You have to be able to work the entire field to be successful.

Our slot receiver (Josh Reed) never seemed to be able to get open enough against opposing defenses over the middle and our tight ends were always either hurt or kept on the line for protection purposes. In training camp, I see Parish and the tight ends making a lot of plays. The thing that I have been watching is a commitment to working the middle of the field. Maybe we finally have a coach that gets this. If we can keep our OL healthy this year, we could be looking at a breakout year. All of the QBs are connecting on intermediate throws and the receivers seem to be having a lot of fun running new routes.

 

Last year we rarely worked the middle. Dump offs and sideline throws seemed to be the norm. You have to use the entire field when attacking a defense so they can't get comfortable just covering limited areas of the field. We seemed to make it easy for them last year. I hope that these changes turn things around. Go Bills!

[Guest dog14787]

And this is why I deserve to be in the Hall of Fame! I may not post much, but when I do, I always try to bring a great point! HA!

 

Anyway, in all seriousness, the 15-20 yard throws are the key to success in the NFL. If you don't have a QB that can hit that play on a fairly regular basis, you will struggle to score points. You have to keep the defense honest. If you are basically giving them the entire middle of the field, the defense has a major advantage. You have to keep the guessing and keep them spread out on defense. You have to be able to work the entire field to be successful.

 

 

It helps if you don't have midgets for WR's and you do have big pass catching TE's if you want to work the middle properly. It also helps if you have pass protection that actually pass protects or an OC that knows how to design and call the proper plays.

 

 

Did you happen to notice the difference in philosophy when it comes to the size athletes we drafted? Well in my opinion its going to help make a big difference in the win loss column plus reduce injuries greatly.

[thewildrabbit]

Even Turk Schonert said after he was canned that Jauron stated there were too many formations and too many plays. Schonert also said that Jauron wanted the offense stripped down and compared the offense to a pop-warner type offense. What QB can be successful under those conditions, especially with a horrible O-line?

 

My take on what Jauron wanted made sense actually, simplify the offense to around 20-25 plays and let the offense master those and just switch up formations to keep the defense guessing.

 

Let's face it, Jauron and Schonert were both morons, DJ is coaching DB's and Schonert is out of the NFL says it all.

 

I agree with dog on the fact that the entire offense was hamstrung the last 4 years by bad game planning and play calling, plus a horrid scheme,with both lousy coaches and players. What QB could possibly progress under those conditions?

[JinWPB]

An O line of !st rnd picks

#1 defense

great running game

 

 

results ...2400 yds/ 12td/ 20 int/ 26 sacks 63 rating 53% compl 6.7ypa

 

The Jets franchise OMG , the second coming of Broadway Joe Sanchez.

 

 

Give me a break,

 

 

Go Trent/ Go Bills

[thewildrabbit]

Our slot receiver (Josh Reed) never seemed to be able to get open enough against opposing defenses over the middle and our tight ends were always either hurt or kept on the line for protection purposes. In training camp, I see Parish and the tight ends making a lot of plays. The thing that I have been watching is a commitment to working the middle of the field. Maybe we finally have a coach that gets this. If we can keep our OL healthy this year, we could be looking at a breakout year. All of the QBs are connecting on intermediate throws and the receivers seem to be having a lot of fun running new routes.

 

Last year we rarely worked the middle. Dump offs and sideline throws seemed to be the norm. You have to use the entire field when attacking a defense so they can't get comfortable just covering limited areas of the field. We seemed to make it easy for them last year. I hope that these changes turn things around. Go Bills!

Exactly my opinion also, I think the Bills hung on to Reed way to long. It took him years to develop as a slot / possession receiver and he was still lacking in a few areas when they let him go this year.

 

I used to watch him on blitzes and he wouldn't watch to see if his defender was on him or going for the QB, he would often be wide open for a quick pass that could have gone for big yardage. He would just run his route and then look for the ball.

 

It could have been the lack of decent coaching or just a not to bright a player. Lets see if it was the system, the QB or the player as Reed is now in SD with good coaches and a good offense.

 

 

The thing about the Bills offense has been the OT positions, both have been bad since JP was traded and fold like wet cardboard. That leaves the QB about 3 seconds under a heavy rush to get rid of the ball. If the possession receiver and TE's both stink that leaves very few options for the QB to even make a first down.

 

The Bills finally get another deep threat in TO to take some heat off Lee Evans and open up the deep game...then they tear apart the O line to screw themselves and give the QB no time to throw deep passes, just lame.

[DarthICE]

At what point are fans going to finally understand Trent never should have had a shot at starting in this league? He sucked in College he sucks now. He can't read a defense to save his life, he always looks for the checkdown, doesn't have a strong arm to make the tough throws and no matter what the protection, wont' throw with anticipation at all.

 

I never have understood the Bills fans mindset of hanging on years too long to guys that aren't the answer. 'but if he had a better line, better coaching' yeah I remember that gruden was going to make one of our former QB's a stud, how did that work out. Flutie in SD, still was easy to figure out and was benched in no time. Bledsoe was over the hell and was average at best behind a MUCH better OL than we had and with MUCH better coaching.

 

Here is the reality and there is no getting around it, Collins, Hobart, RJ, Flutie, Bledsoe, JP and now Edwards, NONE have been close to being the answer. All of the above listed are 3rd string talents with Flutie being a legit #2 and Bledsoe past his prime/ good as a #2 when we got him.

 

NOTHING changes until we get a top talent at QB. This 'its all about the lines' Bull **** is purely that. bull ****. A damn good QB can make a crap OL good and a good OL look GREAT! Bledsoe proved no matter how much time you give a guy, some guys just can't get it done. As for as Edwards, one of the most telling plays was against the Jets I think when he took a 3 step drop....and held the !@#$ing ball for a sack. That is bull ****. Any QB worth a **** NEVER gets sacked on a 3 step drop, and the OL gave him a good pocket and time to get rid of the ball. The guy just doesn't have what it takes to be a starter at the NFL level.

 

I have nothing personal against the guys, hell they might be the salt of the earth but I don't give a ****. It is past time to put this QB issue to bed. I want a top talent in here so a guy like Gailey can coach him up to his potential.

 

We all better pray that Brohm is that guy or we are going to be back to square one next offseason.

[sven233]

It helps if you don't have midgets for WR's and you do have big pass catching TE's if you want to work the middle properly. It also helps if you have pass protection that actually pass protects or an OC that knows how to design and call the proper plays.

 

 

Did you happen to notice the difference in philosophy when it comes to the size athletes we drafted? Well in my opinion its going to help make a big difference in the win loss column plus reduce injuries greatly.

 

Oh.....there has definitely been change over at One Bills Drive. No doubt about that. And, as I have been saying all along, I think many of the problems with the O-Line, WRs, QBs, etc. can be traced straight back to the offensive scheme and philosophy that this team has had the past 4 years. Jauron was an idiot. He knew nothing about how to run an NFL offense and that is why he has failed virtually every year he was a head coach.

 

I honestly believe this team has more talent than we are given credit for. I also thik just installing a brand new, NFL-style offense, will make every position better. I believe that goes for O-Line, WRs, and yes........even the QBs.

 

Look, I personally don't believe any of the QBs on our rosters are good enough. We will need help there as a long-term answer. BUT....I refuse to believe that they are all as TERRIBLE as what has been shown the last few seasons. I am going to go into this season with an open mind and hope that Gailey gets the best out of all of our offense players so we can for certain see who has talent and can play and who can't. I think there will be some who surprise!

[oak tree 12]

From what little we see on these practice highlights Ive now noticed how Edwards pats the ball before he throws it about half the time, which gives the defense more time to react, his deep ball has never been his strong point yet its has been his recievers strong point!? This has never made sense to me. I have been a Trent, he could be the next Frank Reich. A very good #2 smart enough to know the offense, good enough to win some games, but just not a full time starter.

Fitzpatrick seems to be throwing picks all the time, his accuracy is terrible and has a weak arm, if he is named the starter we have no upside this year.

IMO and the limited amount we have seen Brohm is looking the best having touch on his passes and a stronger arm than the other two.

 

i guess thats why he was a second rounder who in his first year was on their practice squad free to anyone who wanted him.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

In one of the OTA highlights Brohm tossed a absolutely perfect end zone fade to Hardy. Edwards has hit strikes over the middle just none to remember from last season.

 

I think Chan will make a man of one of these boys...

[BoozeCruise]

If we just ignore Trent Edwards, maybe he'll go away. Let's just call him Bills QB #5, like an unnamed video game character. It makes me feel better to say, "Boy, did you see Bills QB #5 today? He looks like crap even in shorts." Time to disassociate.