May Day 10 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 not to mention ticket revenue is split 60/40 with the away team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Of course there are potential local buyers. There always has been. But these guys didn't get rich by being stupid. I think buying the Bills in their current state (low ticket prices and lousy performance) would be one of the dumbest investments around. It has nothing to do with the area. It's about the team. No question profit and loss are major drivers behind business decisions. No profit = no business, so its essential for a business to be profitable to expand and grow, continue to employ people, and service their customers. But NFL football is more than an entertainment business. There's another aspect to this beyond the dollars and cents analysis. There is also an emotional component at play. Ego. To someone with a large ego, a high net worth, and a high opinion of themselves, running with the big dogs so to speak, winning in the NFL tranlates to boosting their personal success above that of their multi-millionaire and billionaire friends and associates. Do we actually believe Snyder bought the Redskins to make money or to acquire a rich man's 'toy'? I'm guessing a guy like Snyder given the choice of making a $100 million next season or losing $20 million but winning the Super Bowl will choose the later. I heard rumor that a member of Jim Kelly's investor group was Donald Trump. Personally, I think Trump is a shameless self-promotor. On the other hand, as a Bill's fan I'd welcome a guy like that at the top. Somebody who would make winning the highest priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 can't we find some unbelievably rich Saudi prince that wants to run a legendary American rust belt football franchise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkc Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 The problem is, which one of them has 800 million in cash to spend, and can they get their money back if the team stays in Buffalo? My answer is none of them! the money is always made on the resale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Seasons in the Rockpile work out to $30/game http://www.channel1media.com/bills/seatviews/ So how does that make the "average" ticket $35 for 70,000 tickets? After looking at that page, I would have to say that the "average" ticket is more likely around $50-55 or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw1234 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 No question profit and loss are major drivers behind business decisions. No profit = no business, so its essential for a business to be profitable to expand and grow, continue to employ people, and service their customers. But NFL football is more than an entertainment business. There's another aspect to this beyond the dollars and cents analysis. There is also an emotional component at play. Ego. To someone with a large ego, a high net worth, and a high opinion of themselves, running with the big dogs so to speak, winning in the NFL tranlates to boosting their personal success above that of their multi-millionaire and billionaire friends and associates. Do we actually believe Snyder bought the Redskins to make money or to acquire a rich man's 'toy'? I'm guessing a guy like Snyder given the choice of making a $100 million next season or losing $20 million but winning the Super Bowl will choose the later. I heard rumor that a member of Jim Kelly's investor group was Donald Trump. Personally, I think Trump is a shameless self-promotor. On the other hand, as a Bill's fan I'd welcome a guy like that at the top. Somebody who would make winning the highest priority. wow I have never heard who was "potentially" involved with the Kelly consortium. I would love for Trump to be involved. He and Kelly have USFL history together. Trump's ego would love NFL stage but is Buffalo right market for Trump?? maybe, I guess? Kelly would need to ensure that Trump doesn't want to relocate team to Vegas or somewhere more casino friendly, though. I would feel secure with Trump if Kelly was heavily involved. Maybe RB could be his next apprentice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Yeah but at the same time....who in America right now has 900 million for the team, 850 million for a new stadium and close to a billion for relocating fees associated with moving a team?? Somebody will save the Bills, because of what they mean to the area...just like Galisano saved the sabres...Im sure very few of us knew who he was until he did! Where the heck did you pull that number from? A billion just to relocate a team? But the point of the debt load argument is fairly simple. Do you make more money (which makes it faster, easier, and indeed even possible to pay off your debt) in a big market town with higher ticket prices along with more and bigger companies to pay big bucks for luxury boxes, or a blue collar town with very little big business but a very rabid and loyal, though largely poor (according to the census), fan base? The answer is obvious. What Bills fans need is a White Knight who can afford to sacrifice profitability to keep the Bills in Buffalo. And even if such a Knight existed, the other NFL owners have a big say in the matter so even that isn't a guarantee. Remember too, that when Golisano was the White Knight for the Sabres, I believe he paid less than 100 million for the team (92 if google is correct ). That's a far cry from almost 900 million the Bills are estimated to be sold for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 The better question is how do I make the near Billion dollars I will need to buy the Bills, all before Ralph passes. ANy ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 The better question is how do I make the near Billion dollars I will need to buy the Bills, all before Ralph passes. ANy ideas? 1) Charter a bank 2) Make bad loans 3) Declare bankruptcy 4) Get government assistance 5) Pay yourself a $1 billion bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 1) Charter a bank2) Make bad loans 3) Declare bankruptcy 4) Get government assistance 5) Pay yourself a $1 billion bonus Good point, it works for wall street dudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadstroke Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Seasons in the Rockpile work out to $30/game http://www.channel1media.com/bills/seatviews/ You got your head up your butt, pal. Do a little recalculating and come back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Someone on another thread made reference to there being bad blood between RW and the Rich family? Any info on what that may be all about as I've never heard or read anyhting about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 The better question is how do I make the near Billion dollars I will need to buy the Bills, all before Ralph passes. ANy ideas? Play every lottery game out there. You got your head up your butt, pal. Do a little recalculating and come back I don't need to recalculate, the site says $30/game when you buy seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTS Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I've got it on good authority that SKOOBY will be the next Bills owner. He'll likely sell a few of his cars to liquidate the cash needed to purchase the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Your right about this. There is still a lot of money in WNY. Goliasano, the Rich's, Wegman's Family etc. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned another fellow who is both connected to Buffalo and able to buy the Bills with pocket change: Warren Buffett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 The close to $1B fee to move the team applies to the fee a team would have to pay to move an existing team to say Toronto.....so for those scared of the Bills moving to Toronoto do the math....$800M (Rams are going for 7-800M), at least $1B in downtonwn Toronto to build a stadium they want and then 600-800M for the relocation fee if it was the Bills. That makes it impossible to turn a profit when you are talking about $3B roughly to buy a team and move it to Toronto....the best thing for the Bills was TO not getting the Olympics so they would not have a stadium. You have to remember the exchange rate but that is negligible now it may go back down again. The Bills ARE staying in Buffalo people, they are not moving. Another person nobody has brought up is Howard Milstein who went to school in upstate NY at Cornell and owns 100 acres+ n Niagara Falls and it is J Kelly's former agent who is the point man there for him for the NF property.......he and father on that list at $3.8B. Also, Milstein tried to buy the Redskins about 10 years ago so we know he is interested in the NFL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw1234 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I've got it on good authority that SKOOBY will be the next Bills owner. He'll likely sell a few of his cars to liquidate the cash needed to purchase the franchise. don't know the board's history - who is this Scooby cat? he has been referenced a lot. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw1234 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I'm surprised that no one has mentioned another fellow who is both connected to Buffalo and able to buy the Bills with pocket change: Warren Buffett. what is Buffett's connection with Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Buffett owns the Buffalo News and Geico which has a strong presence in B'lo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrudginglyPessimistic Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Of course there are potential local buyers. There always has been. But these guys didn't get rich by being stupid. I think The key to survival is not selling out the stadium at $35 a pop. The team needs to start winning in a big way, and I dont mean one playoff game and out-type winning. I mean the AFC championship in Buffalo, and more than once in ten years kind of winning. That's what will put $75 a ticket fannies in the seats and keep the team in the area. You are right on target that the key to survival and the key to making profits as an NFL owner is the same as it is for any business. The saying is that the customer is always right. One would need to be a fool to think that businesses do whatever the customer says bur profitable businesses identify customers needs and satisfy them. Often this done with commercials which convince some market segment that they had a "need" they did not know they had. The bottomline for the NFL is to identify the market you can get, get as much of its money as you can and then expand the market. Many of the folks who do a lot of ranting about the Bills must leave because it is a small market actually seem to fail in understanding what actually is the market that delivers the bucks to the owners. The local market is important as it delivers a significant chunk of change, However, the local market simply pales in size compared to the TV market which delivers the lionshare by a long shot of money to NFL owners. Why is there no team in one of the largest markets in the country, LA? This is in part because the real money which drives the NFL as a business in the billions of dollars which the TV networks deliver to the NFL to be divided among team owners each year. This is why when Gene Upshaw dictated to the owners that under the new CBA the total gross receipts needed to be the pie for the salary cap and that the players take needed to start with a 6, that the owners rolled over and took the deal (voting down badly an old stick in the mud like Mr. Ralph) to take a deal which guaranteed the plays 60.5% of the total gross. This was because with labor peace and a more guaranteed provision of TV shows to sell beer, cars and soap around the networks were happy to deliver billions to the owners. 39.5% of a bunch of money is worth more than 55% of a little money. The owners were good businessmen and took the deal. As far as moving the Bills, yep it could happen. However, I think it is quite doubtful the market and the money will make it worthwhile to do. True some new owner may get a marginally higher return in a different city. However, there likely would be a lot of grief and risk involved with such a move. The take for an individual NFL owner is gonna be his 1/31st pf the transfer fee and particularly after the division its not gonna be much and actually only marginally higher than a transfer fee from new owners even if the team does not relocate. In addition to that, the NFL seems to have a clear desire to do what any business does which is to expand their market. Getting eyeballs in Europe, Mexico, Tokyo and elsewhere has the likely potential to make the current owners a ton more $ than simply moving the team. Add to this all the pitful picture of abandoned Buffalo fans which will be the NFLs main commercial for years right at the time they are trying to excite foreign municipalities to buy and support teams can be done but moving the team makes it harder. Also add to that the Bills actually have more value to the NFL moving into new markets as being one of the original franchises and new owners get to join into that tradition and again moving the team hurts the NFL. The old days where the owners were plucky individuals who took personal risks to use capitalism to build their teams is gone. We are all socialists now in the social compact reflected in the CBA. After kicking Ed Garvey and the NFLPA's butt in the mid 80s lockout the players threatened to decertify their union and force NFL owners into a true free market. The owners ran and did not run to our current social compact model simply because there is more money to made by the team owner this way. Buffalo is a small market but the real market is eyeballs around the country and soon around the world. Whether the Bills will move or not is unlikely to happen because such a change would not deliver appreciable dollars to the owners who must decide on a move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts