CBO scores the Senate Health Bill

[IDBillzFan]

Great article breaking down the smoke and mirrors of health care reform being "deficit neutral."

 

How anyone can think this is good idea is beyond me.

[Doc]

And hooray, Social Security, for the first time/year ever, will be paying out more than it collected: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100314/ap_on_...l_security_ious

 

If they pass this abortion of a bill, we are so !@#$ed.

[Alaska Darin]

And hooray, Social Security, for the first time/year ever, will be paying out more than it collected: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100314/ap_on_...l_security_ious

 

If they pass this abortion of a bill, we are so !@#$ed.

Keep in mind Social Security didn't need to be reformed during the previous administration. That was back when the Democrats were playing the role of "The Party of No". That was totally different, right liberals?

[keepthefaith]

Keep in mind Social Security didn't need to be reformed during the previous administration. That was back when the Democrats were playing the role of "The Party of No". That was totally different, right liberals?

 

Part of the problem with social security is that it's also used like welfare. A former employee of ours went to jail (for the 3rd time) after working for us. Twice for armed robbery and once for arson. He's about 27 years old now and out of jail. His parents (who I know well) didn't want the burden of dealing with him any longer. They did some research and found that he would be eligible to draw Social Security if it was determined that he was disabled in some way. They had him go to several doctors and one of course determined that he has some psychological issues. He now draws a Social Security check every month and also is on Medicaid and other public assistance. He doesn't work and has no intention of working. He has an apartment and lives by himself. The only thing wrong with him that I can see is that he had a significant drug problem (which he admitted to me) and he grew up in a lousy Chicago neighborhood and did what a lot of young men do and never grew out of that lifestyle. However, the brilliance of our government is to write him a check every month. He also has a daughter from a women to which he was never married and due to his "disability" does not have to support the child.

[John Adams]

Part of the problem with social security is that it's also used like welfare. A former employee of ours went to jail (for the 3rd time) after working for us. Twice for armed robbery and once for arson. He's about 27 years old now and out of jail. His parents (who I know well) didn't want the burden of dealing with him any longer. They did some research and found that he would be eligible to draw Social Security if it was determined that he was disabled in some way. They had him go to several doctors and one of course determined that he has some psychological issues. He now draws a Social Security check every month and also is on Medicaid and other public assistance. He doesn't work and has no intention of working. He has an apartment and lives by himself. The only thing wrong with him that I can see is that he had a significant drug problem (which he admitted to me) and he grew up in a lousy Chicago neighborhood and did what a lot of young men do and never grew out of that lifestyle. However, the brilliance of our government is to write him a check every month. He also has a daughter from a women to which he was never married and due to his "disability" does not have to support the child.

 

This is, for me, one of the hugest problems we face today: The people who have no intention of working.

 

I work with some families in inner city Philly helping with dependency issues. So assume they are the poorest people you can know. I observe the support system that has stopped even asking if people work. And if someone has to seek work to get some benefit, the support system merely helps them check the "seeking work" box. When I ask these families if they work, it's as if I'm a dog talking. They give me the most baffled look. There is an entrenched--and I mean deeply entrenched--sense that they do not have to work and will be provided for.

 

This mindset is toxic. It's almost impossible to break a child from it into anything resembling productive. These people aren't drug-abusers though they often do drugs). They aren't dealers. They aren't criminals (beyond petty ****). They are just a class of people who will not work because they don't have to.

 

How we break this is slightly beyond my social engineering background. But I'd sure like to see social welfare tied to work of some sort.

[IDBillzFan]

This is, for me, one of the hugest problems we face today: The people who have no intention of working.

 

I work with some families in inner city Philly helping with dependency issues. So assume they are the poorest people you can know. I observe the support system that has stopped even asking if people work. And if someone has to seek work to get some benefit, the support system merely helps them check the "seeking work" box. When I ask these families if they work, it's as if I'm a dog talking. They give me the most baffled look. There is an entrenched--and I mean deeply entrenched--sense that they do not have to work and will be provided for.

 

This mindset is toxic. It's almost impossible to break a child from it into anything resembling productive. These people aren't drug-abusers though they often do drugs). They aren't dealers. They aren't criminals (beyond petty ****). They are just a class of people who will not work because they don't have to.

 

How we break this is slightly beyond my social engineering background. But I'd sure like to see social welfare tied to work of some sort.

Great, but horribly truthful post. What works is what has always worked; you stop handing out cash. Period. Yeah, I know. harsh. Cruel. No compassion. But it works.

[keepthefaith]

Great, but horribly truthful post. What works is what has always worked; you stop handing out cash. Period. Yeah, I know. harsh. Cruel. No compassion. But it works.

 

Yup, we gotta have the stones to tell some people "sink or swim". Problem politically is that a lot of Dems think it's a birth right to have a place to live, food, health care and a few bucks.

[Doc]

Yup, we gotta have the stones to tell some people "sink or swim". Problem politically is that a lot of Dems think it's a birth right to have a place to live, food, health care and a few bucks.

...for smokes, a cell phone, LCD TV, cable...

[John Adams]

Great, but horribly truthful post. What works is what has always worked; you stop handing out cash. Period. Yeah, I know. harsh. Cruel. No compassion. But it works.

 

The problem with this simplistic approach is that I work almost 100% with the kids of the adult losers...and they would lose out horribly with your approach. Sadly, also in working with the kids, I often work with the grandparents (who are doing the majority of the caregiving) and these elderly folks also need assistance.

 

Like many, I have no problem helping kids, elderly, mentally/physically disabled. But the great wash of the rest can kiss my MFing ass. Sadly, you can't just give them nothing because their dependents will suffer.

 

Like I said, the problem of the entrenched entitlement class is that it's complicated. That said, I'd like to at least see a work for benefits arrangement. If you want your social security/disability/welfare, you have to show up and do something for it. That's always met with great resistance though. Lose your right to vote? Lose your right to reproduce (yay!).

[John Adams]

...for smokes, a cell phone, LCD TV, cable...

 

I may see cell phones occasionally and cable a little more but trust me, the living conditions among the entrenched poor is nothing you would feel that jealous of. Sure they don't always spend their money wisely but most of the families I see have no beds except a few mattresses on the floor, usually shared by at least 2 kids. Almost never a table or furniture. Only the most meager of dinnerware. Dont get the idea that the $40/mo cell and $50/mo cable would make much of a difference in their lives.

 

And I never ever see a TV of any note. These aren't drug dealers. These are people who are borderline retarded dumb and have no work ethic because their parents didn't and their parents didn't and on and on for 3-4 generations (which means only 50-60 years in most cases because they've had kids so young). It's a deep problem.

[Nanker]

And, attempting to mandate make-work jobs for people that "won't work" is a non-starter because the unions won't hear of people on the public dole cleaning up the sidewalks and roadsides, being crossing guards, cleaning up the state and city parks, repairing and installing road signs, performing janitorial and landscaping labor for public schools and buildings and such like. No, they get a weekly victim communion wafer from the public dole and don't have a clue nor an inkling of any sort of drive that could make themselves better.

[Doc]

I may see cell phones occasionally and cable a little more but trust me, the living conditions among the entrenched poor is nothing you would feel that jealous of. Sure they don't always spend their money wisely but most of the families I see have no beds except a few mattresses on the floor, usually shared by at least 2 kids. Almost never a table or furniture. Only the most meager of dinnerware. Dont get the idea that the $40/mo cell and $50/mo cable would make much of a difference in their lives.

 

And I never ever see a TV of any note. These aren't drug dealers. These are people who are borderline retarded dumb and have no work ethic because their parents didn't and their parents didn't and on and on for 3-4 generations (which means only 50-60 years in most cases because they've had kids so young). It's a deep problem.

I'm speaking of the (Medicaid) patient population I see in my surgery center.

[keepthefaith]

And, attempting to mandate make-work jobs for people that "won't work" is a non-starter because the unions won't hear of people on the public dole cleaning up the sidewalks and roadsides, being crossing guards, cleaning up the state and city parks, repairing and installing road signs, performing janitorial and landscaping labor for public schools and buildings and such like. No, they get a weekly victim communion wafer from the public dole and don't have a clue nor an inkling of any sort of drive that could make themselves better.

 

Jobs solve so many probems. Our economy has lost many of the jobs that could be performed by people of lesser skills and training. Jobs like manufacturing or basic customer service jobs. Jobs where somebody can show up, fill out an application and if they can be counted on to show up every day - they can get hired, trained and be productive. Many people simply aren't willing to make much effort to find work and through the use of technology or the loss of manufacturing, companies have outsourced these jobs often overseas. Somehow, through policy changes IMO we have to find ways to stop the jobs bleeding and begin to recover what we've lost. An economic recovery from where we are now will not be enough IMO. Otherwise, we'll simply continue to grow the unproductive entitlement class.

 

Democrats primarily who continue to support entitlement legislation are doing favors to nobody. Not the recipients of those programs or the taxpayers who fund them. Frankly the Democrats simply give up on these people by giving them a crutch on which they can hobble forever.

[IDBillzFan]

Jobs solve so many probems. Our economy has lost many of the jobs that could be performed by people of lesser skills and training. Jobs like manufacturing or basic customer service jobs. Jobs where somebody can show up, fill out an application and if they can be counted on to show up every day - they can get hired, trained and be productive. Many people simply aren't willing to make much effort to find work and through the use of technology or the loss of manufacturing, companies have outsourced these jobs often overseas. Somehow, through policy changes IMO we have to find ways to stop the jobs bleeding and begin to recover what we've lost. An economic recovery from where we are now will not be enough IMO. Otherwise, we'll simply continue to grow the unproductive entitlement class.

 

Democrats primarily who continue to support entitlement legislation are doing favors to nobody. Not the recipients of those programs or the taxpayers who fund them. Frankly the Democrats simply give up on these people by giving them a crutch on which they can hobble forever.

Y'know, the more politically aware I become, one thing becomes abundantly clear to me on this probably-too-late political journey I've been on: liberals don't care about liberty. I mean, I known many intelligent liberals (just ask them, they'll tell you), so it's not a stretch to believe they KNOW what liberty is, so I can only assume they simply don't care about it. They would rather give out the crutch and enable/promote dependence on the government because that dependence enhances their power.

 

It's weird to believe this, but it's like they want people dependent on the government so they have more control over them. It sounds retarded as hell, but after spending the past two years watching liberals on steroids, how can anyone come to any other conclusion?

 

And here's the beautiful part of their scheme: if you complain about it, or argue against it, what do you hear? "Well, you just don't care about (fill in the blank)." During the health care debate, if I hear one more letter to one more elected official about the person who is in dire straits because the system is just unfair, l'll puke. "We have to help these poor souls. Nary a one can fall through the cracks!!!" But what does saying this do? It makes me a selfish, capitalist pig. It's the perfect argument in a poisoned well.

 

You really have to appreciate liberals. They've perfected laziness. It's an art form to them. Individual achievements mean little when together they can just climb on top of each other and rely on the ones below them for all the support they'll need to survive. The more you learn about liberals, the more you come to understand their love affair with unions, where the cry seems to be "Individually, only some of us will be great. But TOGETHER, we can all be just slightly below average."

[pBills]

You really have to appreciate liberals. They've perfected laziness. It's an art form to them. Individual achievements mean little when together they can just climb on top of each other and rely on the ones below them for all the support they'll need to survive. The more you learn about liberals, the more you come to understand their love affair with unions, where the cry seems to be "Individually, only some of us will be great. But TOGETHER, we can all be just slightly below average."

 

 

And you have to appreciate people from the right side of the aisle as well. They have perfected the art of avoidance.

[Doc]

Just received an e-mail from my state (CT) anesthesiology society saying that the House has 211 of the needed 216 votes. That is UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE! These idiots are completely clueless, given what's happened the past few months. I'm going to find out if any of my state's Reps are in that group, because this will kill the insurance industry here. And if any are, the November elections will be the least of their fears.

[Magox]

Listen you guys, there is this lady from Ohio that had to make the decision of whether or not she should keep her home or her health insurance. It is so unfortunate that it came down to this. So WE MUST PASS this Health Insurance Bill.

[keepthefaith]

And you have to appreciate people from the right side of the aisle as well. They have perfected the art of avoidance.

 

That might be your perception.

 

See, many of us on the right believe we should stop treating different groups of people differently. We belive in equal opportunity to succeed or fail. We believe in personal responsibility. We believe in treating all citizens the same. We would do the following:

 

Eliminate all affimative action programs

Tell illegal aliens to go home and give them the help they need to leave

Cut the Federal government budget by at least a third (states too)

Tell every able minded and able bodied person that maintaining their health is their own personal responsibility

Eliminate unions

 

Then we can focus on the true needs of the less fortunate.

[IDBillzFan]

That might be your perception.

 

See, many of us on the right believe we should stop treating different groups of people differently. We belive in equal opportunity to succeed or fail. We believe in personal responsibility. We believe in treating all citizens the same. We would do the following:

 

Eliminate all affimative action programs

Tell illegal aliens to go home and give them the help they need to leave

Cut the Federal government budget by at least a third (states too)

Tell every able minded and able bodied person that maintaining their health is their own personal responsibility

Eliminate union

 

Then we can focus on the true needs of the less fortunate.

I am quickly learning that the reason the left doesn't get individual liberty is because they prefer people to be in groups. This makes it easier to flame the animosity between victims and evil-doers: the evil health insurers versus the poor uninsured; the evil Wall street pigs versus the middle-class poor who have lost 80% of their retirement; the predatory lenders versus the victimized home-buyers who simply didn't understand that they really couldn't afford that house; the greedy business profiteers versus the lowly, overworked/underpayed non-unionized employee; the nasty credit card issuers versus the shopoholic who doesn't understand how missing a couple of payments will make their monthly minimum payment increase.

 

Group against group. Works like a champ because it's easier to apply social fixes to pre-determined groups of people than it is to help people realize that life is measurably better if they just learn at an early age that personal responsibility and accountability is not the same as being selfish.

[IDBillzFan]

The problem with this simplistic approach is that I work almost 100% with the kids of the adult losers...and they would lose out horribly with your approach. Sadly, also in working with the kids, I often work with the grandparents (who are doing the majority of the caregiving) and these elderly folks also need assistance.

 

Like many, I have no problem helping kids, elderly, mentally/physically disabled. But the great wash of the rest can kiss my MFing ass. Sadly, you can't just give them nothing because their dependents will suffer.

 

Like I said, the problem of the entrenched entitlement class is that it's complicated. That said, I'd like to at least see a work for benefits arrangement. If you want your social security/disability/welfare, you have to show up and do something for it. That's always met with great resistance though. Lose your right to vote? Lose your right to reproduce (yay!).

I am very thankful I don't have your job.