KOKBILLS

That's some serious wishful thinking at this point... How many undrafted WR's EVER have 100 yard plus, 2 TD performances in their rookie year? I think it's pretty safe, based on his athletic talent alone, that Rogers has barely scratched the surface of his potential...If he continues to gain Luck's confidence the sky is the limit...And sure Luck will have a lot to do with Rogers success...But it matters not...If he's relatively successful it's a major black eye to the Bills... But even if he does end up as just an average WR, it's the 6th WR slot on the Bills roster we're talking about...And the fact remains it was a risk that was WELL worth taking for the Bills...But instead they kept a journeyman JAG WR because...well...Lets look at the possibilities here...Maybe they have zero vision and understanding of how to properly build an NFL roster for the future because they're (Marrone, Whaley, Hackett...) a bunch of rookies themselves? Maybe they have limited evaluation skills when under pressure to make a decision on the 45-53 roster slots? Or lastly, maybe they were completely arrogant and over confident about the talent on this team that they had already decided to keep... So arrogant they did not feel like this decision would ever be as big, or as important, as it was to have a 6th WR that was a better Special Teams player at the end of Preseason game #3...

I like Goodwin a lot...But I see him as being a specialty guy and not much more...I think the folks hoping he's going to be the next Desean Jackson will be disappointed in the long run...

Exactly right... And like you pointed out previously this decision is a microcosm of the past 14 years...And I'm 100% sure there were plenty of folks right here on this board that knew Rogers would become a decent NFL WR...Not necessarily because they know football, or even that they believed in his talent...But purely because they knew the minute the Bills released him it would likely turn out to be the wrong move...That is exactly the reputation this team has built up over the past 14 years...Any Bills fan with even the slightest grasp of reality had to know this was not only possible...but inevitable...This team can't punch it's way out of a paper bag...From the owner down, when a big decision is to be made, they usually make the wrong one...Even a blind squirrel will land a Kiko every now and again...But for whatever reason...call it the Flutie curse or whatever, this team usually lands on the side of being wrong more than right... And when you have a decision like this...A decision that looked so obvious to some...I mean look folks...We are talking about the 6th...the 6th WR slot!!! Not one, not two, hell not even four or five...The 6th freaking slot!!! And they STILL can't get it right...Well...You just have to ask yourself if something else is going on here that we all simply can't see...And I'm not talking about something in the locker room, or the film room, or the practice field...I'm talking about something that cannot be explained with any kind of science or facts...It's time to consider the jinxed factor as the only legitimate excuse...Because this is just ridiculous... Sorry y'all...I can't possibly explain why this specific blunder is bothering more more than the others...But it is...This one is really, really, pissing me off...Anyway.../endrant...

That's one team...Houston has allowed 15 more yards per game and they're 2-11...If you want to gamble on the Bills crossing that river and building around the Defense so be it...That Seattle D is awesome no question...But they are also a team with the best Home Field advantage in the NFL, and a legit Franchise QB that bails them out a lot...I'd love to see the Bills build that kind of Defense, but they are miles, and miles, away from that currently...I'd rather see them go with what they have on Defense, maybe add a piece or two, and concentrate on an Offense that can put up serious points...Because if you can score in this league, you always have a chance... No matter what the Bills need to get better on both sides of the ball...My guess is no matter what they try it will be wrong...But we'll see...

Amaro will be a 1st Round Pick...Probably top 15...The TE position is becoming more and more valuable every year...He'll go high...I expect Amaro, Seferian-Jenkins, and Ebron to all be 1st Round Picks when it's all said and done... I think the NFL is moving in the opposite direction...Only the most elite Defenses really make a difference any longer, and even they can be scored on by an Offense hitting on all cylinders...The 49ers D was supposed to be the difference in the last SB, and the Ravens were able to move the ball effectively...If you can't score in this league you can't compete, let alone win...And the Bills are an ocean away on the Offensive side...I'd like to see them get better on D too...And I think they will in Pettine's 2nd year...But IMHO they need to improve the talent on Offense big time...Plus I think they made an organizational commitment to EJ...They need to get him all the help they can...

OK i'm confused... So you're assuming by that little quote that he just discovered practice was important last week? Or should I ask...You're assuming anything from that little quote? Seriously...The kid passed Easley and Hogan combined this season in a single game performance...What are you missing here? Who cares how long it took him to catch on as a Rookie...He caught on...And it should have been in Buffalo...

Could not have said it better myself...

You know I LOVE Draft talk Astro... I see the Bills needs in this order... 1a. TE 1b. Big WR (6-2 or bigger) 2a. RT (take an OT and play him at OG as a Rookie...Then move him to RT down the road) 2b. CB (the Bills need a 3rd CB in the worst way...I'd rather see them go Vet though...Rookies worry me at DB) 3. LB 4. OG

Exactly right... To be honest I'm still shocked the Bills handled this the way they did...They knew EXACTLY what they were getting with Rogers, or at least they should have known...That move shocked me to be honest...And it was a definite first-crack in the foundation of trust I had in Marrone and Whaley...I still don't understand why Rogers could not be our 6th WR...And I never will understand it no matter what kind of spin Marrone or Hackett want to give it... But anyway...

I don't dislike Gilmore at all...But I think he's underachieved, injuries aside, for a top 10 pick...That does not mean I want to scrap him or anything of the sort, I just think he's ordinary so far...Not bad, but definitely not a difference maker yet... Keep in mind I watched a TON of South Carolina games while living 2 hrs north of Columbia SC in Charlotte NC...Some of my best friends are HUGE Gamecock fans...So I was basically forced to watch...Sure we all knew Gilmore was good...There was no question...But Jeffery was the star on that team and there was never any doubt about it...And anyone who followed SC knew the QB issues were the reason for the dropoff in his Jr year...That was obvious to all of us...But I still think NFL Scouts doubted his dominance even after his incredible one-half Bowl Game performance...I'll never be able to figure out why he dropped to the 2nd Round...I thought based on what I saw of that kid for 3 years he was the next big thing in the NFL...I thought he was a sure-fire top 10 pick...I was wrong about that I guess...Or was I? I said it back then, and I'll say it again, I'll take Jeffery over Gilmore any day...and twice on Sunday...Maybe three times on Sunday...

Well...I told anyone who would listen before the 2012 Draft that Alshon Jeffery was going to be a stud in this league because he could go up and get the ball even when he was covered...I felt Jeffery was a sure fire 1st round stud after watching him at South Carolina continuously come up with big plays...I figured Jeffery was part of the new breed of NFL WR's...Big, fast enough, massive wingspan, and not good but great hands...The NFL disagreed with me on the 1st round part...The Bills instead took his SC teammate at #10 overall...His teammate is an average NFL CB...Jeffery is a difference maker...

Players learn and develop at different rates...Expecting a Rookie WR to learn a playbook as fast as a journeyman, on his 4th NFL team, is a bit ridiculous...Especially when that Rookie really only played one full year of big time College football... You're looking at this thing the same way the Bills coaches did, and with all respect due, that was a HUGE mistake...Especially considering where this team was talent-wise overall, and the massive need at WR...Marrone and Hackett got ahead of themselves believing this team was WAY closer than it was instead of sticking to a plan of developing REAL talent for the future of this franchise when it's actually (or maybe I should say hopefully) going to be good a couple years down the road... The Colts certainly did not have the same outlook for Rogers, and it's already paying dividends in his Rookie year...It takes an organization, and a coaching staff with real vision to do these things...It takes a an organization with REAL leadership at the WR position (I'm assuming Reggie Wayne is helpful in Indy) to expect a player like Rogers will put in the necessary work long-term to reach his potential in time...The Bills have none of that vision, leadership, guts, whatever...That's why they are bottom-feeders... But make no mistake...As long as they have fans out there who continuously buy in to every bit of drivel they spew, like the drivel they spewed when they released Rogers and kept "7-11," the Bills will always be a financially viable entity in the NFL...So my guess is it's no big deal to them anyway...They'll just Draft a WR in the 1st round and say that was the plan all along...

Fair enough... But again, no one is claiming Rogers is a lock to be great...That really has little to do with the equation...No question he'll be better with Luck throwing him the ball than he would be with EJ...But seeing the Bills bail on a kid with his potential when they are clearly a rebuilding organization...well...IMHO, that's what really matters here...

Fun speculation aside...I would be absolutely floored if the Bills took a QB in the 1st round next year...I'm not saying it's a bad idea...I'm just saying the chances are slim and none...And Slim just left town...

Definitely not numb...This loss bothered me a lot...We got our asses handed to us by a team with a Rookie QB that started the season 0-8... I wish I was numb to it all...It would be easier...

Who's anointing anyone? The only question for Bills fans is Hogan/Graham or Rogers? Who would you rather have? I'm leaving Easley out of the equation because he truly is a good ST's player...

From an organizational standpoint you are 100% right... But this was not an organization move...This was a Head Coach/OC move made by a couple rookie coaches who were thinking about how to round out their Special Teams roster instead of developing a WR with serious potential for a year or two...This is why I can't stand it when I hear a GM say these kind of moves are 100% coaches decisions...This was a perfect time for Whaley to step in and kindly convince Marrone that the better move, long-term, was keeping Rogers... During Training Camp, when it became clear that Rogers was on the bubble, I brought up the comparison to Dez Bryant...Rogers and Bryant are VERY comparable as pure athletes...Don't believe me? Here's their pre Draft measurable's... Height - Bryant and Rogers are both 6-2 Weight - Bryant was 225 at the Combine...Rogers 217 Speed - Rogers clocked 4.52 at Indy...Dez posted times from about 4.55-4.65 in his PW depending on the wind Vertical - Rogers 39.5"...Bryant 38" Bench - Rogers 10 reps...Bryant 14 reps At the Combine, Rogers was a "top performer" at his position in the Vertical Jump (tied for 1st), Broad Jump (tied for 2nd), 3 cone drill (4th), 20 (5th) and 60 yard shuttles... Both Rogers and Bryant had at least one outstanding College season in a big-time conference...And both also ran into trouble...Both had serious off-the-field concerns, though both were also considered to be decent kids... Anyone who follows NFL football knows Bryant is not necessarily the brightest bulb on the tree...Bryant struggled at times as a rookie despite the fact that, like Rogers, his physical skills were obvious to anyone who watched him for a couple minutes...He needed time...He needed a TON of reps...He needed to learn the NFL game...He needed a team with a TON of patience...The Cowboys had that patience...Now they have one of the best WR's in the game... And please understand that in no way am I predicting that Rogers will be the next Dez Bryant...But there is at least a chance he can come close...Especially if he starts getting some confidence...And when it comes down to the 5th or 6th WR on your team you don't roll the dice on that chance? Really? Really Doug squared? The Rogers move was an organizational failure...And a very early indicator...for me at least...that these guys (Brandon, Whaley, Marrone, and Hackett) are basically learning on the job...And it's a move that can have further implications considering the Bills still have a need for a top WR, and may have to use another high Draft pick to fill that need... Like I said earlier in this thread...This was easily predictable...This organization always manages to get it wrong more than it gets it right...They can change out the names all they want...That fact remains the same...Cutting Rogers was a stupid organizational move...Period...End of story...

This was the kind of game that experienced and successful gamblers can call a million miles away... A team that saw their Playoff hopes smashed in devastating fashion the week prior has to fly south some 1250 miles to play a team that had won 3 of their last 4 games, and their last 2 at home... The Bills had nothing to play for...Except pride of course...Which it can certainly be argued they have little of... Too bad I'm not an experienced gambler...I could have actually done something constructive with those 3.5 hours...

Exactly...Like many here commented in Training Camp you kept a player with a limited upside over a guy with a high ceiling on a team that is young and looking to build together anyway...I swear you could see this coming a mile away...Not so much that Rogers was going to turn into a superstar or anything like that...But instead the Bills were faced with a key roster decision, and made the wrong one...That you just had to expect would happen...

Finally a team that understands how to properly play for a better Draft pick... It's about time...

Train wreck...

The Fitzpatrick zone? What? EJ's a Rookie and when compared to other Rookie QB's over the years his play has been favorable... You say Locker is a borderline Franchise QB...Which I disagree with...He's never been able to stay healthy anyway...But lets assume for the sake of argument you're right...Have you taken a look at Locker's first year as the "full time" Starter in Tennessee (last season...his 2nd year in the NFL)? EJ has played better than that as a Rookie...So why no benefit of the doubt for EJ? It's certainly not a stretch to assume EJ can be a better starter than Locker in a couple years...It's barely more than a baby step...

Hughes I can see...He is a situational guy...McLovin is definitely playing at the level of a 1st Round CB IMHO...Maybe not a top 10...But definitely a 1st round guy... And Glenn? Seriously? Cordy Glenn would go top 10 now...He's a freak athletically for his size, and now he's proven he's an NFL LT...There are VERY few players on this team I would put ahead of Glenn as far as importance goes...And he's young enough that he could get a lot better...

Exactly...On his way down to the turf, after being pushed, he clearly grabbed the WR...But only after...Plus...Like the announcers questioned, it's hard to imagine the Ref who threw the flag could have seen Robey's grab the way he was positioned...Maybe he did though...Still...I think that call goes back to the point made earlier on this week about the steady rise in Defensive PI percentage, in comparison to Offensive PI which has remained about the same...It's getting a bit ridiculous... I do find it funny though that an Atlanta DB got away with an obvious tug on Goodwin's shoulder earlier on when Goodwin clearly had a step and was targeted on a deep ball...The DB reaches out with both hands, pulls down on Goodwin's shoulder when he turned back to look for the ball, and that move clearly broke Goodwin's stride...That could have been 6 easy...There is no consistency...And that is the biggest problem IMHO... True...But in this case we're playing a 2-9 team...So...

Everyone I talk to seems to agree with this...The Bills can paint whatever rosy picture they want about the Toronto game, the fans, and how they were cheering for the "home" team...But some things are glaringly obvious on TV...The first thing I noticed was the empty seats followed closely by how quiet it was when Ryan was calling out the plays and adjustments...You could here him plain as day...There was virtually no crowd noise when Atlanta had the ball, and that is a massive part of home field advantage...Especially when you have one of the NFL's best Defenses at sacking the QB...If winning truly is the most important thing to Russ and The Bills, then the fact that we are all but giving up Home Field advantage for one game per year may be enough to change the organizations philosophy on this stupid game... When a team 900 miles south of Buffalo is getting as many, if not more, fans than the Bills are in Toronto...well...it's a HUGE problem IMHO...I realize this is not how The Bills envisioned this going...I realize they felt like that Stadium would fill up with rabid Bills fans from the general Toronto area...But that obviously has not happened...And it's effecting the competitive advantage we should be enjoying in a HOME game...This just can't be allowed to continue if in fact winning is truly the most important thing...