KOKBILLS

Well...I told anyone who would listen before the 2012 Draft that Alshon Jeffery was going to be a stud in this league because he could go up and get the ball even when he was covered...I felt Jeffery was a sure fire 1st round stud after watching him at South Carolina continuously come up with big plays...I figured Jeffery was part of the new breed of NFL WR's...Big, fast enough, massive wingspan, and not good but great hands...The NFL disagreed with me on the 1st round part...The Bills instead took his SC teammate at #10 overall...His teammate is an average NFL CB...Jeffery is a difference maker...

Players learn and develop at different rates...Expecting a Rookie WR to learn a playbook as fast as a journeyman, on his 4th NFL team, is a bit ridiculous...Especially when that Rookie really only played one full year of big time College football... You're looking at this thing the same way the Bills coaches did, and with all respect due, that was a HUGE mistake...Especially considering where this team was talent-wise overall, and the massive need at WR...Marrone and Hackett got ahead of themselves believing this team was WAY closer than it was instead of sticking to a plan of developing REAL talent for the future of this franchise when it's actually (or maybe I should say hopefully) going to be good a couple years down the road... The Colts certainly did not have the same outlook for Rogers, and it's already paying dividends in his Rookie year...It takes an organization, and a coaching staff with real vision to do these things...It takes a an organization with REAL leadership at the WR position (I'm assuming Reggie Wayne is helpful in Indy) to expect a player like Rogers will put in the necessary work long-term to reach his potential in time...The Bills have none of that vision, leadership, guts, whatever...That's why they are bottom-feeders... But make no mistake...As long as they have fans out there who continuously buy in to every bit of drivel they spew, like the drivel they spewed when they released Rogers and kept "7-11," the Bills will always be a financially viable entity in the NFL...So my guess is it's no big deal to them anyway...They'll just Draft a WR in the 1st round and say that was the plan all along...

Fair enough... But again, no one is claiming Rogers is a lock to be great...That really has little to do with the equation...No question he'll be better with Luck throwing him the ball than he would be with EJ...But seeing the Bills bail on a kid with his potential when they are clearly a rebuilding organization...well...IMHO, that's what really matters here...

Fun speculation aside...I would be absolutely floored if the Bills took a QB in the 1st round next year...I'm not saying it's a bad idea...I'm just saying the chances are slim and none...And Slim just left town...

Definitely not numb...This loss bothered me a lot...We got our asses handed to us by a team with a Rookie QB that started the season 0-8... I wish I was numb to it all...It would be easier...

Who's anointing anyone? The only question for Bills fans is Hogan/Graham or Rogers? Who would you rather have? I'm leaving Easley out of the equation because he truly is a good ST's player...

From an organizational standpoint you are 100% right... But this was not an organization move...This was a Head Coach/OC move made by a couple rookie coaches who were thinking about how to round out their Special Teams roster instead of developing a WR with serious potential for a year or two...This is why I can't stand it when I hear a GM say these kind of moves are 100% coaches decisions...This was a perfect time for Whaley to step in and kindly convince Marrone that the better move, long-term, was keeping Rogers... During Training Camp, when it became clear that Rogers was on the bubble, I brought up the comparison to Dez Bryant...Rogers and Bryant are VERY comparable as pure athletes...Don't believe me? Here's their pre Draft measurable's... Height - Bryant and Rogers are both 6-2 Weight - Bryant was 225 at the Combine...Rogers 217 Speed - Rogers clocked 4.52 at Indy...Dez posted times from about 4.55-4.65 in his PW depending on the wind Vertical - Rogers 39.5"...Bryant 38" Bench - Rogers 10 reps...Bryant 14 reps At the Combine, Rogers was a "top performer" at his position in the Vertical Jump (tied for 1st), Broad Jump (tied for 2nd), 3 cone drill (4th), 20 (5th) and 60 yard shuttles... Both Rogers and Bryant had at least one outstanding College season in a big-time conference...And both also ran into trouble...Both had serious off-the-field concerns, though both were also considered to be decent kids... Anyone who follows NFL football knows Bryant is not necessarily the brightest bulb on the tree...Bryant struggled at times as a rookie despite the fact that, like Rogers, his physical skills were obvious to anyone who watched him for a couple minutes...He needed time...He needed a TON of reps...He needed to learn the NFL game...He needed a team with a TON of patience...The Cowboys had that patience...Now they have one of the best WR's in the game... And please understand that in no way am I predicting that Rogers will be the next Dez Bryant...But there is at least a chance he can come close...Especially if he starts getting some confidence...And when it comes down to the 5th or 6th WR on your team you don't roll the dice on that chance? Really? Really Doug squared? The Rogers move was an organizational failure...And a very early indicator...for me at least...that these guys (Brandon, Whaley, Marrone, and Hackett) are basically learning on the job...And it's a move that can have further implications considering the Bills still have a need for a top WR, and may have to use another high Draft pick to fill that need... Like I said earlier in this thread...This was easily predictable...This organization always manages to get it wrong more than it gets it right...They can change out the names all they want...That fact remains the same...Cutting Rogers was a stupid organizational move...Period...End of story...

This was the kind of game that experienced and successful gamblers can call a million miles away... A team that saw their Playoff hopes smashed in devastating fashion the week prior has to fly south some 1250 miles to play a team that had won 3 of their last 4 games, and their last 2 at home... The Bills had nothing to play for...Except pride of course...Which it can certainly be argued they have little of... Too bad I'm not an experienced gambler...I could have actually done something constructive with those 3.5 hours...

Exactly...Like many here commented in Training Camp you kept a player with a limited upside over a guy with a high ceiling on a team that is young and looking to build together anyway...I swear you could see this coming a mile away...Not so much that Rogers was going to turn into a superstar or anything like that...But instead the Bills were faced with a key roster decision, and made the wrong one...That you just had to expect would happen...

Finally a team that understands how to properly play for a better Draft pick... It's about time...

Train wreck...

The Fitzpatrick zone? What? EJ's a Rookie and when compared to other Rookie QB's over the years his play has been favorable... You say Locker is a borderline Franchise QB...Which I disagree with...He's never been able to stay healthy anyway...But lets assume for the sake of argument you're right...Have you taken a look at Locker's first year as the "full time" Starter in Tennessee (last season...his 2nd year in the NFL)? EJ has played better than that as a Rookie...So why no benefit of the doubt for EJ? It's certainly not a stretch to assume EJ can be a better starter than Locker in a couple years...It's barely more than a baby step...

Hughes I can see...He is a situational guy...McLovin is definitely playing at the level of a 1st Round CB IMHO...Maybe not a top 10...But definitely a 1st round guy... And Glenn? Seriously? Cordy Glenn would go top 10 now...He's a freak athletically for his size, and now he's proven he's an NFL LT...There are VERY few players on this team I would put ahead of Glenn as far as importance goes...And he's young enough that he could get a lot better...

Exactly...On his way down to the turf, after being pushed, he clearly grabbed the WR...But only after...Plus...Like the announcers questioned, it's hard to imagine the Ref who threw the flag could have seen Robey's grab the way he was positioned...Maybe he did though...Still...I think that call goes back to the point made earlier on this week about the steady rise in Defensive PI percentage, in comparison to Offensive PI which has remained about the same...It's getting a bit ridiculous... I do find it funny though that an Atlanta DB got away with an obvious tug on Goodwin's shoulder earlier on when Goodwin clearly had a step and was targeted on a deep ball...The DB reaches out with both hands, pulls down on Goodwin's shoulder when he turned back to look for the ball, and that move clearly broke Goodwin's stride...That could have been 6 easy...There is no consistency...And that is the biggest problem IMHO... True...But in this case we're playing a 2-9 team...So...

Everyone I talk to seems to agree with this...The Bills can paint whatever rosy picture they want about the Toronto game, the fans, and how they were cheering for the "home" team...But some things are glaringly obvious on TV...The first thing I noticed was the empty seats followed closely by how quiet it was when Ryan was calling out the plays and adjustments...You could here him plain as day...There was virtually no crowd noise when Atlanta had the ball, and that is a massive part of home field advantage...Especially when you have one of the NFL's best Defenses at sacking the QB...If winning truly is the most important thing to Russ and The Bills, then the fact that we are all but giving up Home Field advantage for one game per year may be enough to change the organizations philosophy on this stupid game... When a team 900 miles south of Buffalo is getting as many, if not more, fans than the Bills are in Toronto...well...it's a HUGE problem IMHO...I realize this is not how The Bills envisioned this going...I realize they felt like that Stadium would fill up with rabid Bills fans from the general Toronto area...But that obviously has not happened...And it's effecting the competitive advantage we should be enjoying in a HOME game...This just can't be allowed to continue if in fact winning is truly the most important thing...

As much as I would like to see a stud LB next to Kiko, I definitely feel some needs on Offense trump LB...Especially a stud TE, top WR, or an upgrade along the O-Line...I would not be devastated if the Bills went D in the 1st round...I would be surprised though...

At his salary the Bills wont get squat for him in return...Stevie is all but on this team through 2014 at the very least...I think that's an easy assumption... But who knows? It really comes down to how much Hackett and Marrone like the guy...I still believe he can be a good piece of a quality Offense...We'll see...

Exactly...

It depends... I'm not sure I could pull for the Toronto Canadians or a team that did not have the running Buffalo logo...That logo means a lot to me to be perfectly honest...Replace it with a Maple Leaf, or whatever, and I'm out... I'm becoming a Panthers fan anyway...So I would probably follow them...They are my 2nd team now...I lived in Charlotte for 20 years, they have an exciting young QB, a Defense that is just nasty at Home, and at least they seem to have an understanding about how to re-build...

This is exactly what really happened...I watched that replay about 10 times after the game to try and understand what happened and if the call was justified...Robey definitely grabbed out in response to being pushed back...If anything Robey was in the better position to play the ball when the contact initiated...On top of it, from where the Ref was standing it's hard to imagine he could have seen the grab by Robey anyway...Maybe he did...I don't know...I agree with Barber...In that situation when you have two players fighting for position on what is basically a jump ball the ref should have just swallowed the flag...Robey made his biggest error by clinging up to the WR with the ball in the air instead of locating the ball at that time and just knocking it down...That led to the WR pushing him, which led to his grabbing... Robey seemed to be the one in better position to play the ball, but he tried to blanket the WR first, probably to wall him off...Then he got pushed, then he grabbed the WR, and the rest is history...

I'm pretty sure they already have a "never quit mentality..."I don't think that's the issue with this team at all...In fact I don't think that has been the issue for the majority of the past 14 seasons combined...Unfortunately, to go along with that "never quit," they also have a "usually lose" mentality...And breaking that is going to take a lot more than just hard work...It's going to take actually stepping up and winning the games that are winnable the majority of the time...It's going to take the mentality that we need to play like we're down by 14 when we're up by 14...It's going to take a killer instinct that has been extinct within this organization for a long, long, time now...Not just playing hard and never quitting...Like Marrone put up on the wall...Don't confuse effort with results...That goes for now, or in the future...This team is a bunch of losers until they prove they can win...That's really all there is to it...

Totally agree...Hopefully he'll get quicker with his eyes and anticipation in time...But as Rookie QB's go he is better than average...There really can't be much logical debate about that...He'll need to get a lot better...Like 99.99999% of Rookie QB's before him...

Well...The Defense is definitely not a monster...I made the mistake of assuming they may have turned the corner this season...But after watching them today vs a real NFL QB I realize I was wrong...It was wrong to hope...They have a mile and a half to go on Defense...They are habitual underachievers as a group...And once again a Defense that is supposed to have one of the best D-Lines in the league got absolutely gashed at times by the 31st...That's right...The 31st ranked run offense in the league...This Defense is no monster...It's not the least bit scary...They can rush the Passer...And that's about all they do with any consistency... And while you make logical points, I don't think history is on your side with these predictions...The Bills have had talent over the past 14 years...Some years more than others...But there is one thing they had in common every one of these 14 years...They find ways to lose winnable games...It may be different ways from week to week or year to year...But they find a way...And finding a way to lose is what this Franchise does better, and with more year in and year out consistency, than any other team in the NFL... 14 years of consecutive history says you're probably going to be wrong on this...But what the heck...I still hope you're right...

Cool...

I really don't get this comment... He's a rookie QB, and if you made a list of the players responsible for this crap loss, EJ would be close to the bottom...He lead an Offense that scored 31 points and should have had at least 34...He threw a nice deep pass to Goodwin on the sidelines, Goodwin gets interfered with, and for whatever reason the Ref ate his flag...That could have gone for 6 easy...He throws two nice passes to Stevie and Chandler and they fumble...The Bills could have scored 50 points this game with a couple more good breaks... Get off EJ...He's a rookie that missed most of training camp and four games this season...He's going to struggle at times...That's what young QB's do...He's got a QB rating over 80 as a Rookie and that is not bad at all in this league...In fact if EJ were to finish this season with his current QB rating (82) it would actually put him in good company...You loving Luck and Griffin this year? Young QB's struggle at times...It's going to happen...Peyton Manning had a 71.2 QB rating as a rookie...Luck was at 76.5 last year...Griffin is 81.8 this year...Again...Young QB's are going to struggle at times...That's just about a guarantee... EJ threw the pass to win us this game and Stevie coughed it up...Give the kid a break...