KOKBILLS

I don't think Rogers is anywhere close to being as good as he can be...And no question he may never get there...But when I see the kid play I can't help but see his big-time potential...I've been wrong before...But he's got all the tools...And if he puts it all together...With Luck throwing him the ball?...Who knows how good he can be?...I think his upside is in the Dez Bryant area...

Point taken...But one is long, long gone...And the other is 32 years old so...I'm kinda wanting more...

I hear you... But just for once I'd like to see the Bills be the team that outsmarted everyone...Got the undrafted guy that turns out to be a gem...Whatever...instead of the other way around...You know? Plus...Admittedly I was very much in favor of the Bills biting the bullet so-to-speak and keeping Rogers on the 53...So this one does strike a nerve with me...It really does...

It certainly was more GG...You're 100% right about that...It was an organization, and a coaching staff, who (wrongly) thought they were so talented at WR there was no need to keep Rogers and work extra hard on the things that he was struggling with...It was the strange arrogance of a rookie HC who (wrongly) decided the players he was keeping were better players... "We have better players now..." That's what Marrone said..."Better players..." The reality is exactly what you pointed out...At the time of Rogers release the Bills had players that were better at understanding the playbook, lining up in the right spot, and executing their assignments...They were better at the mental side of the game than Rogers...That should have come as no surprise to Marrone and staff...An undrafted rookie who basically played WR for one full year of big time College football and he's not grasping things as quickly? I'm shocked...Maybe Marrone and Hackett were too busy fawning over "7-11" to have time for Rogers...Who knows... As a WR though, as an athlete...As a guy who can go up and get the ball, or make a big play...Rogers certainly was every bit as good as the rest of the Bills WR's...Like NoSaint has pointed out in this thread several times...There was certainly no shortage of big play reports by Rogers in Camp...I did not go to Camp myself, but I do remember reading about Rogers a lot here...And especially on his ability to make big plays during Camp...He needed more time on the mental side of the game and the Bills were too busy worrying about him missing assignments instead of figuring out a way to bridge the gap until he caught on...That may have meant figuring out a way to keep 7 WR's for a few weeks...Maybe you put the gimpy Kicker on IR? I don't know...Figure it out...Keep one less somewhere else...It's absolutely do-able...Instead the Bills took the easy way out and just cut him... And like I said before, it's not necessarily that I believe Rogers is the next coming or anything like that...It's more that I believe the Bills, when faced with these type of decisions (or any decision on or off the field), get it wrong more than they get it right...So I fully expect Rogers to make Marrone and the Bills look like a fools...Because that's what happens here...That's just what usually happens to the Buffalo Bills...

You know...Maybe you did not mean it this way, and you were just trying to be funny...If so my apologies upfront...But I have to be honest...This is the kind of post that really irritates me... Who is the heck is even hinting at Rogers being a mega talent?...I said he's a rookie and he has plenty of talent...That's all...That kind of ridiculous over-exaggeration (this mega talent) is what kills decent conversation and argument on this board every day and throws it into the garbage pile of smart ass comments and mudslinging...I mean...Seriously...If you have read and comprehended ANY of the past few pages you would know... So again...This entire 20 plus page thread has nothing to do with predicting Rogers to be the next Megatron, or anything of the sort...It has everything to do with keeping Chris Hogan and TJ Graham over Rogers...Which is a legitimate conversation and debate... If all you can come up with is 0-1? What exactly did Rogers do to help the Colts lose that game? Give me some specifics because the last time I checked he did not play on Defense... Mega-talent? Who the fug knows? More talented than Hogan or Graham? Well...I'm pretty sure that's a possibility...Talented enough to at least help the Bills score more point? Probably so...Going to get better with time? Very likely...HUGE need (WR) in Buffalo still? Yep...Rogers Mega-star? I have no earthly idea...

There were plenty of folks here who felt Rogers would never catch on with an NFL team after the Bills cut him...Now he's catching TD's for the Colts...He's just a rookie...He has plenty of talent...Keep betting against him if you wish...The odds are progressively moving out of your favor...

^^^ This... I still go back to the fact that Hogan was cut by the Fish who were absolutely talent deficient at WR in 2012...If any team needed WR's last year it was the Fish...

All in all this is proof Bills Fans vote FAR more efficiently than Bills players actually perform...

True...Kind of reminds me of the things Parcells said about Romo early on in his career...But Parcells rode him hard...REALLY hard...And Romo turned into a pretty decent NFL QB because of it...Like we said before players with talent develop at different rates...Marrone handled this challenge like the rookie HC he is... It's not about pronouncing him a success...Though admittedly I imagine he will be in time...It's about keeping Hogan, or Graham, over Rogers...That's really all this is about... Well...OK...Maybe it's about more than that...We have a HC that is currently preaching accountability...Who is accountable for the Rogers release Doug? Who exactly felt that Hogan and Graham were better players than Rogers? Again I'm leaving Easley out of this argument because he is a very good Special Teams player...and admittedly he did produce in the preseason... Let's look at his own words again... "He definitely has skill," Bills coach Doug Marrone said today of Rogers. "Along with DeMarco Sampson, who's played well for us in the preseason, but I think when you look at the production of that group, and who's produced for a long period of time, it's just a matter of, it's just as simple as, we feel that we have better players on the roster right now than the players that we released. I'm a big believer on the production part of it right now rather than what are we going to get down the road," the coach said. "So I think all those players that were released have the ability to play, but we feel as an organization that we just have better players right now." Produced huh Doug? Production? OK...Prior to the 2013 campaign Stevie Johnson had three 1000 yard seasons in the NFL...He has produced...The next most experienced WR Marrone kept was TJ Graham who had a whopping 322 yards and one TD in his rookie season last year...And Graham barely played this preseason...Then there were the two rookies, Woods and Goodwin...And he rounded out the WR depth chart with Hogan and Easley who had a combined total of zero...that's right...0 yards as NFL WR's...Can somebody who is smarter than me PLEASE explain what "production" Marrone was talking about? Because for the life of me I just don't get these quotes at all...

Not sure I understand the argument... So having more talented players is unimportant until you get a great QB? The Bills don't have a great QB...Not yet...But the shortage of talent at WR is certainly not helping EJ either...I'll give you the fact that EJ has not set the world on fire...I just don't see what good it does to give him Hogan and Graham over Rogers...And lets say the Bills bring in another QB in 2014...Would it be a worthwhile discussion then?...I mean...I understand what you're saying...But this thread is about Rogers...Not the QB position...Sure they go hand and hand...But there are EJ/QB threads I assume...Right?

Watch that 69 yard TD catch and run by Rogers last Sunday and tell me the Bills could not use that kind of play making ability...NoSaint was simply pointing out, correctly I might add, that Manuel to Rogers for big plays was definitely one of the exciting themes early in this years Camp...And it turns out Rogers can do it in the Regular Season as well...Time will tell if he can do it consistently...But the kid has a wealth of raw talent...That much is obvious...And it was obvious in Bills Camp as well...

I'm starting to worry myself... For those who don't have an understanding on exactly how short-sighted this decision was by Marrone, here are his comments to the press after Rogers release... "He definitely has skill," Bills coach Doug Marrone said today of Rogers. "Along with DeMarco Sampson, who's played well for us in the preseason, but I think when you look at the production of that group, and who's produced for a long period of time, it's just a matter of, it's just as simple as, we feel that we have better players on the roster right now than the players that we released. That's what I've communicated to them." "I'm a big believer on the production part of it right now rather than what are we going to get down the road," the coach said. "So I think all those players that were released have the ability to play, but we feel as an organization that we just have better players right now." So...Basically...Marrone released Rogers based solely on his production through camp and three preseason games...This guy better get his resume warmed up if he's truly that short-sighted...Because it's these type of short-sighted decisions that kill NFL Head Coaches...Production he says? So...I'm guessing TJ Graham and Hogan's production to that point was so impressive it was an easy decision for Doug? Didn't Graham miss most of preseason anyway? Production? Production over a long period of time? WTF is he talking about? Outside of Stevie what WR's that the Bills kept have had ANY NFL production to speak of long-term? He's a rookie HC...I thought he said the slate would be clean and everything would be evaluated from every angle? Production? Is he talking about Camp production, and preseason production? Really? Whatever coach...How do you like your highly productive, better players now?

This move was the very definition of short-sighted...

True...Because I'm feeling great about it right now...

That's some serious wishful thinking at this point... How many undrafted WR's EVER have 100 yard plus, 2 TD performances in their rookie year? I think it's pretty safe, based on his athletic talent alone, that Rogers has barely scratched the surface of his potential...If he continues to gain Luck's confidence the sky is the limit...And sure Luck will have a lot to do with Rogers success...But it matters not...If he's relatively successful it's a major black eye to the Bills... But even if he does end up as just an average WR, it's the 6th WR slot on the Bills roster we're talking about...And the fact remains it was a risk that was WELL worth taking for the Bills...But instead they kept a journeyman JAG WR because...well...Lets look at the possibilities here...Maybe they have zero vision and understanding of how to properly build an NFL roster for the future because they're (Marrone, Whaley, Hackett...) a bunch of rookies themselves? Maybe they have limited evaluation skills when under pressure to make a decision on the 45-53 roster slots? Or lastly, maybe they were completely arrogant and over confident about the talent on this team that they had already decided to keep... So arrogant they did not feel like this decision would ever be as big, or as important, as it was to have a 6th WR that was a better Special Teams player at the end of Preseason game #3...

I like Goodwin a lot...But I see him as being a specialty guy and not much more...I think the folks hoping he's going to be the next Desean Jackson will be disappointed in the long run...

Exactly right... And like you pointed out previously this decision is a microcosm of the past 14 years...And I'm 100% sure there were plenty of folks right here on this board that knew Rogers would become a decent NFL WR...Not necessarily because they know football, or even that they believed in his talent...But purely because they knew the minute the Bills released him it would likely turn out to be the wrong move...That is exactly the reputation this team has built up over the past 14 years...Any Bills fan with even the slightest grasp of reality had to know this was not only possible...but inevitable...This team can't punch it's way out of a paper bag...From the owner down, when a big decision is to be made, they usually make the wrong one...Even a blind squirrel will land a Kiko every now and again...But for whatever reason...call it the Flutie curse or whatever, this team usually lands on the side of being wrong more than right... And when you have a decision like this...A decision that looked so obvious to some...I mean look folks...We are talking about the 6th...the 6th WR slot!!! Not one, not two, hell not even four or five...The 6th freaking slot!!! And they STILL can't get it right...Well...You just have to ask yourself if something else is going on here that we all simply can't see...And I'm not talking about something in the locker room, or the film room, or the practice field...I'm talking about something that cannot be explained with any kind of science or facts...It's time to consider the jinxed factor as the only legitimate excuse...Because this is just ridiculous... Sorry y'all...I can't possibly explain why this specific blunder is bothering more more than the others...But it is...This one is really, really, pissing me off...Anyway.../endrant...

That's one team...Houston has allowed 15 more yards per game and they're 2-11...If you want to gamble on the Bills crossing that river and building around the Defense so be it...That Seattle D is awesome no question...But they are also a team with the best Home Field advantage in the NFL, and a legit Franchise QB that bails them out a lot...I'd love to see the Bills build that kind of Defense, but they are miles, and miles, away from that currently...I'd rather see them go with what they have on Defense, maybe add a piece or two, and concentrate on an Offense that can put up serious points...Because if you can score in this league, you always have a chance... No matter what the Bills need to get better on both sides of the ball...My guess is no matter what they try it will be wrong...But we'll see...

Amaro will be a 1st Round Pick...Probably top 15...The TE position is becoming more and more valuable every year...He'll go high...I expect Amaro, Seferian-Jenkins, and Ebron to all be 1st Round Picks when it's all said and done... I think the NFL is moving in the opposite direction...Only the most elite Defenses really make a difference any longer, and even they can be scored on by an Offense hitting on all cylinders...The 49ers D was supposed to be the difference in the last SB, and the Ravens were able to move the ball effectively...If you can't score in this league you can't compete, let alone win...And the Bills are an ocean away on the Offensive side...I'd like to see them get better on D too...And I think they will in Pettine's 2nd year...But IMHO they need to improve the talent on Offense big time...Plus I think they made an organizational commitment to EJ...They need to get him all the help they can...

OK i'm confused... So you're assuming by that little quote that he just discovered practice was important last week? Or should I ask...You're assuming anything from that little quote? Seriously...The kid passed Easley and Hogan combined this season in a single game performance...What are you missing here? Who cares how long it took him to catch on as a Rookie...He caught on...And it should have been in Buffalo...

Could not have said it better myself...

You know I LOVE Draft talk Astro... I see the Bills needs in this order... 1a. TE 1b. Big WR (6-2 or bigger) 2a. RT (take an OT and play him at OG as a Rookie...Then move him to RT down the road) 2b. CB (the Bills need a 3rd CB in the worst way...I'd rather see them go Vet though...Rookies worry me at DB) 3. LB 4. OG

Exactly right... To be honest I'm still shocked the Bills handled this the way they did...They knew EXACTLY what they were getting with Rogers, or at least they should have known...That move shocked me to be honest...And it was a definite first-crack in the foundation of trust I had in Marrone and Whaley...I still don't understand why Rogers could not be our 6th WR...And I never will understand it no matter what kind of spin Marrone or Hackett want to give it... But anyway...

I don't dislike Gilmore at all...But I think he's underachieved, injuries aside, for a top 10 pick...That does not mean I want to scrap him or anything of the sort, I just think he's ordinary so far...Not bad, but definitely not a difference maker yet... Keep in mind I watched a TON of South Carolina games while living 2 hrs north of Columbia SC in Charlotte NC...Some of my best friends are HUGE Gamecock fans...So I was basically forced to watch...Sure we all knew Gilmore was good...There was no question...But Jeffery was the star on that team and there was never any doubt about it...And anyone who followed SC knew the QB issues were the reason for the dropoff in his Jr year...That was obvious to all of us...But I still think NFL Scouts doubted his dominance even after his incredible one-half Bowl Game performance...I'll never be able to figure out why he dropped to the 2nd Round...I thought based on what I saw of that kid for 3 years he was the next big thing in the NFL...I thought he was a sure-fire top 10 pick...I was wrong about that I guess...Or was I? I said it back then, and I'll say it again, I'll take Jeffery over Gilmore any day...and twice on Sunday...Maybe three times on Sunday...